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Author
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Topic: More Info On Max->OPS Shading Prob
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Tailslide
Pilot
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posted 01-24- 08:04 PM
   
I went through the 'fix' procedure for the smallest part of my aircraft so I could have a look at how the file gets affected. I'm posting the "fixed" and "Broken" versions. Does this mean anything to anyone? It looks like the texture verticies and the faces section both change, what sort of change is taking place?# Max2Obj Version 3.0 Jul 11th, 1999
#
mtllib ./rud-broken.mtl
g
# object rudder to come ...
#
v -0.05629 -15.27418 5.01394
v -0.05325 -15.48384 4.98543
v -0.05282 -15.76557 4.90519
v -0.05282 -16.26281 4.60769
v -0.05282 -18.07536 2.13334
v -0.05282 -18.31845 1.47351
v -0.05282 -18.37054 0.50113
v -0.05282 -18.19691 -0.26288
v -0.05282 -17.78017 -0.74907
v -0.05282 -16.97330 -1.12639
v -0.16139 -15.29291 4.92025
v 0.05623 -15.29291 4.92025
v -0.16019 -15.35239 4.63543
v 0.05503 -15.35239 4.63543
v -0.16329 -15.85992 2.13334
v 0.05814 -15.85992 2.13334
v -0.15687 -15.99624 1.46329
v 0.05169 -15.99624 1.46329
v 0.03880 -16.19200 0.50113
v -0.14403 -16.19199 0.50113
v -0.12877 -16.34743 -0.26288
v 0.02347 -16.34743 -0.26288
v 0.00458 -16.44635 -0.74907
v -0.10996 -16.44635 -0.74907
v -0.07477 -16.52312 -1.12639
v -0.05282 -16.53924 -1.20563
v -0.03076 -16.52312 -1.12639
# 27 vertices vt 0.51761 0.91789 0.50156
vt 0.51530 0.92599 0.50154
vt 0.29876 0.26298 0.00000
vt 0.51843 0.91186 0.50164
vt 0.50675 0.94028 0.50154
vt 0.50755 0.91411 0.49844
vt 0.51573 0.91240 0.49841
vt 0.29832 0.24905 0.00000
vt 0.29037 0.26122 0.00000
vt 0.28955 0.23440 0.00000
vt 0.43562 0.99238 0.50154
vt 0.43562 0.92870 0.49836
vt 0.21664 0.24627 0.00000
vt 0.21664 0.18098 0.00000
vt 0.41665 0.99937 0.50154
vt 0.41636 0.93262 0.49854
vt 0.19689 0.24225 0.00000
vt 0.19719 0.17382 0.00000
vt 0.36674 0.99588 0.50154
vt 0.36674 0.94271 0.49935
vt 0.38870 0.93824 0.49891
vt 0.38870 1.00087 0.50154
vt 0.16854 0.23648 0.00000
vt 0.16854 0.17229 0.00000
vt 0.14603 0.17740 0.00000
vt 0.14603 0.23190 0.00000
vt 0.34192 0.96070 0.50154
vt 0.34192 0.94776 0.50091
vt 0.35276 0.94556 0.49989
vt 0.35276 0.98390 0.50154
vt 0.13170 0.18968 0.00000
vt 0.13170 0.22899 0.00000
vt 0.12058 0.21346 0.00000
vt 0.12058 0.22673 0.00000
vt 0.30068 0.25735 0.00000
vt 0.30152 0.26353 0.00000
vt 0.11824 0.22625 0.00000
vt 0.33964 0.94823 0.50154
# 38 texture vertices vn 0.65011 0.11163 -0.75160
vn 0.72923 0.18846 -0.65780
vn 0.72923 0.18846 -0.65780
vn 0.97170 -0.12129 0.20272
vn 0.99808 -0.04999 0.03662
vn 0.99886 -0.04488 0.01653
vn 0.99907 -0.04202 -0.00955
vn 0.99908 -0.04121 -0.01166
vn 0.99488 -0.04281 -0.09155
vn 0.99533 -0.04877 -0.08330
vn 0.72923 0.18846 -0.65780
vn 0.97320 -0.22590 0.04308
vn -0.97342 -0.22496 0.04288
vn 0.97170 -0.12129 0.20272
vn -0.99271 -0.11784 0.02513
vn 0.99808 -0.04999 0.03662
vn -0.99876 -0.04980 0.00056
vn 0.99886 -0.04488 0.01653
vn 0.99908 -0.04121 -0.01166
vn -0.99899 -0.04478 -0.00422
vn -0.99909 -0.04103 -0.01161
vn 0.99908 -0.04121 -0.01166
vn 0.99533 -0.04877 -0.08330
vn -0.99864 -0.04278 -0.02993
vn -0.99537 -0.04853 -0.08296
vn -0.96506 -0.04705 -0.25776
vn 0.99533 -0.04877 -0.08330
# 27 vertex normals g rudder
usemtl &metal_00
f 3/2/3 11/3/11 1/4/1 2/1/2
f 4/5/4 14/6/14 12/7/12 3/2/3
f 11/3/11 13/9/13 4/10/4 3/8/3
f 5/11/5 16/12/16 14/6/14 4/5/4
f 13/9/13 15/13/15 5/14/5 4/10/4
f 6/15/6 18/16/18 16/12/16 5/11/5
f 15/13/15 17/17/17 6/18/6 5/14/5
f 22/20/22 19/21/19 7/22/7 8/19/8
f 7/22/7 19/21/19 18/16/18 6/15/6
f 17/17/17 20/23/20 7/24/7 6/18/6
f 7/24/7 20/23/20 21/26/21 8/25/8
f 27/28/27 23/29/23 9/30/9 10/27/10
f 23/29/23 22/20/22 8/19/8 9/30/9
f 8/25/8 21/26/21 24/32/24 9/31/9
f 9/31/9 24/32/24 25/34/25 10/33/10
f 1/4/1 3/2/3 12/7/12
f 3/8/3 2/35/2 1/36/1
f 26/37/26 10/33/10 25/34/25
f 27/28/27 10/27/10 26/38/26
# 19 faces g # Max2Obj Version 3.0 Jul 11th, 1999
#
mtllib ./rud-fixed.mtl
g
# object rudder to come ...
#
v -0.05629 -15.27418 5.01394
v -0.05325 -15.48384 4.98543
v -0.05282 -15.76557 4.90519
v -0.05282 -16.26281 4.60769
v -0.05282 -18.07536 2.13334
v -0.05282 -18.31845 1.47351
v -0.05282 -18.37054 0.50113
v -0.05282 -18.19691 -0.26288
v -0.05282 -17.78017 -0.74907
v -0.05282 -16.97330 -1.12639
v -0.16139 -15.29291 4.92025
v 0.05623 -15.29291 4.92025
v -0.16019 -15.35239 4.63543
v 0.05503 -15.35239 4.63543
v -0.16329 -15.85992 2.13334
v 0.05814 -15.85992 2.13334
v -0.15687 -15.99624 1.46329
v 0.05169 -15.99624 1.46329
v 0.03880 -16.19200 0.50113
v -0.14403 -16.19199 0.50113
v -0.12877 -16.34743 -0.26288
v 0.02347 -16.34743 -0.26288
v 0.00458 -16.44635 -0.74907
v -0.10996 -16.44635 -0.74907
v -0.07477 -16.52312 -1.12639
v -0.05282 -16.53924 -1.20563
v -0.03076 -16.52312 -1.12639
# 27 vertices vt 0.51530 0.92599 0.50154
vt 0.29876 0.26298 0.00000
vt 0.51843 0.91186 0.50164
vt 0.51761 0.91789 0.50156
vt 0.50675 0.94028 0.50154
vt 0.50755 0.91411 0.49844
vt 0.51573 0.91240 0.49841
vt 0.29037 0.26122 0.00000
vt 0.28955 0.23440 0.00000
vt 0.29832 0.24905 0.00000
vt 0.43562 0.99238 0.50154
vt 0.43562 0.92870 0.49836
vt 0.21664 0.24627 0.00000
vt 0.21664 0.18098 0.00000
vt 0.41665 0.99937 0.50154
vt 0.41636 0.93262 0.49854
vt 0.19689 0.24225 0.00000
vt 0.19719 0.17382 0.00000
vt 0.36674 0.94271 0.49935
vt 0.38870 0.93824 0.49891
vt 0.38870 1.00087 0.50154
vt 0.36674 0.99588 0.50154
vt 0.16854 0.23648 0.00000
vt 0.16854 0.17229 0.00000
vt 0.14603 0.23190 0.00000
vt 0.14603 0.17740 0.00000
vt 0.34192 0.94776 0.50091
vt 0.35276 0.94556 0.49989
vt 0.35276 0.98390 0.50154
vt 0.34192 0.96070 0.50154
vt 0.13170 0.22899 0.00000
vt 0.13170 0.18968 0.00000
vt 0.12058 0.22673 0.00000
vt 0.12058 0.21346 0.00000
vt 0.30068 0.25735 0.00000
vt 0.30152 0.26353 0.00000
vt 0.11824 0.22625 0.00000
vt 0.33964 0.94823 0.50154
# 38 texture vertices vn 0.63856 0.17059 -0.75043
vn 0.99588 0.02624 -0.08681
vn 0.63856 0.17059 -0.75043
vn 0.99277 -0.11823 0.02051
vn 0.99868 -0.05002 0.01139
vn 0.99899 -0.04496 -0.00047
vn 0.99905 -0.04202 -0.01150
vn 0.99911 -0.04121 -0.00937
vn 0.99550 -0.04284 -0.08452
vn 0.99338 -0.04868 -0.10409
vn 0.63856 0.17059 -0.75043
vn 0.99277 -0.11823 0.02051
vn -0.99284 -0.11771 0.02040
vn 0.99277 -0.11823 0.02051
vn -0.99869 -0.04980 0.01134
vn 0.99868 -0.05002 0.01139
vn -0.99900 -0.04476 -0.00046
vn 0.99899 -0.04496 -0.00047
vn 0.99905 -0.04202 -0.01150
vn -0.99911 -0.04183 -0.00482
vn -0.99906 -0.04183 -0.01144
vn 0.99905 -0.04202 -0.01150
vn 0.99550 -0.04284 -0.08452
vn -0.99870 -0.04101 -0.03029
vn -0.99554 -0.04265 -0.08417
vn -0.96506 -0.04705 -0.25776
vn 0.99550 -0.04284 -0.08452
# 27 vertex normals g rudder
f 11/2/11 1/3/1 2/35/2 3/1/3
f 14/6/14 12/7/12 3/1/3 4/5/4
f 13/8/13 4/9/4 3/10/3 11/2/11
f 16/12/16 14/6/14 4/5/4 5/11/5
f 15/13/15 5/14/5 4/9/4 13/8/13
f 18/16/18 16/12/16 5/11/5 6/15/6
f 17/17/17 6/18/6 5/14/5 15/13/15
f 19/20/19 7/21/7 8/22/8 22/19/22
f 19/20/19 18/16/18 6/15/6 7/21/7
f 20/23/20 7/24/7 6/18/6 17/17/17
f 20/23/20 21/25/21 8/26/8 7/24/7
f 23/28/23 9/29/9 10/30/10 27/27/27
f 22/19/22 8/22/8 9/29/9 23/28/23
f 21/25/21 24/31/24 9/32/9 8/26/8
f 24/31/24 25/33/25 10/34/10 9/32/9
f 3/1/3 1/3/1 2/4/2
f 1/3/1 3/1/3 12/7/12
f 26/37/26 10/34/10 25/33/25
f 27/27/27 10/30/10 26/38/26
# 19 faces g
------------------
________________________
TS Aircombat
[This message has been edited by Tailslide (edited 01-24-2000).] IP: Logged |
Tailslide
Pilot
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posted 01-24- 08:12 PM
AHA! I copied the faces section from the fixed file to the broken file and it fixed the problem. How can the faces be ordered incorrectly? TS
IP: Logged |
Tailslide
Pilot
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posted 01-24- 10:16 PM
Interesting ! I loaded up and compared the edges on the broken and fixed rudders:  The fixed one is green.
I tried turning the edges on the broken one to match but it didn't seem to help.
------------------
________________________
TS Aircombat
[This message has been edited by Tailslide (edited 01-24-2000).] IP: Logged |
Tailslide
Pilot
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posted 01-25- 02:54 AM
I ran my plane through polytrans and had the same problem UNTIL I turned on this option:Make Polygon Orientations Consistent (Unify Normals) It told me when it did this:
221 polygons re-oriented When I look in the help for this option I get:
The next (optional) step after having the vertices welded is to unify the polygon normals. A "polygon normal", in the simplest terms, is a line sticking out perpendicular from the "
outside face" of a polygon. The orientation of this polygon normal is important to some rendering programs since they will throw away polygons which have their normals facing away from the camera (termed "backface culling") in order to speed up the rendering process. Unfortunately, many DXF files contain polygons which have random polygon normal orientations. The converter can attempt to "unify" or re-orient these normals by having the Unify Normals option enabled. By doing so the converter will walk across the polygon mesh and reorient each polygon so that all adjoining polygons share the same orientation. However, the Unify normal option in 3dsmax appears to have no effect (!?!) also I'm pretty sure my normals are pointed in the right direction I've done "show normals" and checked them. TS IP: Logged |
JT
Pilot
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posted 01-25- 09:53 AM
Unify normals will only operate on selected faces. Even so, it's only useful if you have some face normals which are flipped the wrong way. It doesn't have much bearing on the vertex normals problem. I think the problem is that Max2Obj is dumb as dirt and needs all it's ducks in a row.
[This message has been edited by JT (edited 01-25-2000).] IP: Logged |
Tailslide
Pilot
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posted 01-25- 03:00 PM
It's not a vertex normals problem JT (I don't think). Just copying over the faces section to the broken .obj file fixed it even with the same normals. TS
IP: Logged |
JT
Pilot
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posted 01-25- 03:17 PM
I know, but what I think is happening is that Max2Obj is rearranging the order of vertices. That means the smoothing gets out of whack because the faces have been constructed differently than how they were in Max. If you look at the two shapes in your screenshots, you can see clear evidence of that. That's why it works when you export, import, and the export out again... you're essentially letting the fickle Max2Obj build the faces however it wants... at least that's my theory. [This message has been edited by JT (edited 01-25-2000).] IP: Logged |
Tailslide
Pilot
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posted 01-25- 03:23 PM
Ahhhhh I get it. That really sucks ! The vertexes appear to be in the same order in the two files though? Maybe you mean face order? I tried turning the edges so the broken one had the same faces and I still had problems. Any chance of getting the fellow to fix his plugin? Or can we go through an intermediate step like Max->vrml->obj to bypass the .obj exporter? TS [This message has been edited by Tailslide (edited 01-25-2000).] IP: Logged |
JT
Pilot
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posted 01-25- 03:46 PM
TS, why not create separate Max files for all your plane parts so that if you have to change something with a certain part, you can do that without affecting the other parts?IP: Logged |
Tailslide
Pilot
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posted 01-25- 03:59 PM
I like having my whole plane in a scene and having a one step export so I can tweak anything and fly it right away. Thats why I came up with the max export script in the first place. I'm not just figuring out how to build this plane but also the next one and the next one.. there must be a way to make the conversion quick and painless. TS [This message has been edited by Tailslide (edited 01-25-2000).] IP: Logged |
Tailslide
Pilot
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posted 01-25- 04:04 PM
Here's an idea: load the whole schwack into multigen and do everything there = )
IP: Logged |
Laika 801
Pilot
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posted 01-26- 01:51 PM
really interesting... - today I finished the texture mapping for the exterior of the plane (did I need weeks ? ..or months ? man that was a shitty job !). Tomorrow I restart to whole import/export thing and I see big trouble in front of me... IP: Logged |
JT
Pilot
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posted 01-26- 05:18 PM
I always try to export the thing out and get it into OPS and SDOE before I start texture mapping. I save texture mapping for last so if I find a problem I won't have to map it again and again. Texture mapping is probably my least favorite part of this process.
IP: Logged |
Tailslide
Pilot
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posted 01-26- 05:20 PM
I know ! I'm definitely not looking forward to texturing the whole *&#$@ thing over again. This sucks. The export to .obj and back also messes up my transparency settings = (
IP: Logged |
Tailslide
Pilot
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posted 01-27- 02:48 AM
I blew away days worth of texturing and decided to do the obj import/export, tweak up my mesh then retexture from scratch. nnnnghhh
IP: Logged |
Laika 801
Pilot
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posted 01-27- 03:40 AM
I retextured my plane 5 or 6 times till I got it look right in 3ds dos - I ended up with very simple textures (only the background color, some lines and stars - no extra "volume" layer (like I´ve got before)). I definitly wont change anything again on the mapping (maybe improve the textures a bit).tail - did you allready find a (simple) way to export the whole model to OPS (whats up with Bryan? ) ? - I´m now at 839 triangles and when there is a way to export some triangles as quads I will stay about 500 polys or so. I´ll re-read the topics for this problem for sure..
IP: Logged |
Tailslide
Pilot
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posted 01-27- 12:39 PM
Laika heres how it goes.. -export to .obj format with normals turned off
-import from .obj format with normals turned off
-apply smoothing rollup to all your objects
-export to .obj with normals turned on (bryans max script helps here)
-import from .obj with the new OPStudio beta that will automatically do the whole plane at once. Make sure to "make active" any hidden objects or OPStudio will crash
-save the plane out, load it into SDOE
-make note of any areas of the plane that are shaded funny or missing polys
-go into max and 'turn edges' on the parts that are shaded funny. You may also see polygons that don't show up in game. You have to delete them and recreate them.
-repeat the whole process right from the beginning (if you don't the shading will get messed up and/or the plane will start flickering)
Repeat until insane. Once that's all done then apply your textures and don't touch your mesh again or you'll have to repeat the process for whatever object you modify. Note the .obj export plugin has a bug and will dump max to desktop if it doesn't like an object. Export each object one at a time until you find the one causing the crash then turn or make visible some edges until the export stops crashing. TS
IP: Logged |
Laika 801
Pilot
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posted 01-28- 04:06 AM
huh ? no that simple eh? retexture the plane ? Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrgggghhhhhh ;\
IP: Logged |
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