posted 08-21- 09:45 PM               

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Has anyone done this by accident/intentionally? I would like to know if this is possible - pull back and the aircraft dives, push forward and the aircraft climbs. I still need the hstabs to do the upwards lifting thing.

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posted 08-21- 10:05 PM               

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Thats easy, just give the DOFs of the elevators opposite directions I think.

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posted 08-21- 10:10 PM               

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Crap! Just tried it and it does not work...

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posted 08-21- 10:17 PM               

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I had to do this on the Shinden since its elevators are on the nose of the plane.

TS

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posted 08-21- 10:28 PM               

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Flip the hor stab, or the hor stab airPoint...

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posted 08-22- 08:01 AM               

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Reversing the airPT will also reverse the lift which works fine I need to keep that lift. I might just move an airfoil to the elevators.

[This message has been edited by Whirlwind (edited 08-22-2000).]

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posted 08-22- 08:32 AM               

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Tail airfoils are generally semetrical, so there is no lift direction. It is just based on AOA of the hor stab. It will reverse the elevator effect though, and that is what you are looking for, right?

-Sv

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posted 08-22- 08:34 AM               

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Hmm... I'll try that tonight...

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posted 08-22- 11:18 AM               

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The direction of the elevator DOF has no bearing on the actual control force. It just controls the VISUAL movement of the part. The actual force is hardwired into the airfoil I think. If you want the control force reversed, I think you need to invert the actual airfoil.

------------------
--jedi--

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posted 08-22- 11:38 AM               

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You can do that as well, just hack the airfoil so that the foilUp and foilDn data is reversed... but that is more work. I'm not sure how to flip over the airPoint without flipping the actual mesh of the object (rotating in OPS). How does the airpoint vector work?

-Sv

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posted 08-22- 11:57 AM               

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Actually, since the airfoil is probably symetric, it will be better to invert the part itself, and then invert the airPT - this is just a vector. I still need lift on the airfoil from increased AOA.

Or I might just add an airfoil to the elevator and reduce the chord in the parent object for the elevator to 0 or near 0, if 0 crashes SDOE.

[This message has been edited by Whirlwind (edited 08-22-2000).]

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posted 08-22- 03:01 PM               

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Hi, WW, maybe you were at the b17-2 forum when I posted these in april. The FM is mostly done but it needs a model Falck said he was doing one but looks like hes working on another plane. The link for the plane is in the general forum somewhere wayback.

[This message has been edited by Tailslide (edited 08-22-2000).]

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posted 08-22- 03:26 PM               

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Well heck, hehe.. I never stayed at the B-17 forum - I cancelled my preoder in Feb to get Shogun . I was on vacation. I'll dig up your plane and do a J7W2 conversion then . The FM I have for the one I was goofing off on seems to work, aside from the inversion of the elevators, and the need to lower the CoG down.

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posted 08-22- 03:35 PM               

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Any one modify it more than this one?
http://tailslide.firelight.dynip.com/Files/shinden-Alpha1.zip

1) is LOD'ed?
2) is it textured?

I was only doing the J7W1 as a boredom plane as I am waiting for some B-29 manuals, it looked simple, and I needed a break from the B-29. Anyways, I really want this plane in the game so I'll suck it down tonight. I might just copy the model parts into the one I was working on, as it only uses the Spit and SpitPit . I also have found about 4-5 good pictures of the plane's cockpit, less a few guages. I'll guestimate what some of the guages are since the pictures aren't that high resolution and I can't make them out. I don't know about this version, but I had fun flying the roughout I made.

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posted 08-22- 04:05 PM               

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Thats why I made mine too ! pusher prop planes fly different it can be really fun. Give the included mission a try the AI is one mean SOB in those things.

All the work was put into the FM. The 3d model is some junky thing I downloaded off the net and needs to be replaced.

The cockpit was copied from the zero, and may be an easier starting point than the spit but up to you. The loadouts are correct AFAIK.

Good luck..

TS

[This message has been edited by Tailslide (edited 08-22-2000).]

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posted 08-22- 05:37 PM               

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Whooo... that airfoil makes a diff I'll use your canopy from the one you put together, gear, and the airfoil, but whoo.. I like the FM I have - great turner, but don't expect it to pull out of dives as fast as you'd like .

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posted 08-22- 06:07 PM               

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It was an interceptor with a wing loading in the neighbourhood of 48 lb/sqfeet it didn't turn terribly well.

The gear is not accurate on my model it should look like this:

TS

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posted 08-22- 06:14 PM               

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As the AI just proved - it is fun, but I got out turned by a 190 JK... actually with a different airfoil other than the Spit (in my case) we can get it's performance there. It does accelerate quite well, but as a turner... it leaves a lot to be desired I haven't found good numbers for dry + oil weight nore any info on the Ha-42/43 (some say 42, some say 43, no one has the rpms for this engine...) are your numbers right? They look better than what I have...

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posted 08-22- 06:29 PM               

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Heres some info. I don't have the engine weight, I probably just adjusted it until the CG seemed to be in the right spot. I believe I set the total plane weight and fuel capactity but I never found out the fuel tank locations.

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MODEL J7W1
Type Interceptor - Fighter
Crew 1
Manufacturer Kyushu
Year 1945
Num. Produced 2
Powerplant (1) 2,130 hp Mitsubishi Ha-43 12 MK9D, 18 Cyl. air cooled radial piston engine driving a six blade metal pusher prop.

Also planed was a :
(1) 900 kg thrust NE-130 axial-flow turbojet

Performance

max speed 466 mph (749 kmh) @ 28,540 ft (8700 m)
262 mph (422 kmh) cruising speed

initial climb 2,460 ft (750 m) / minute

service cieling 39,370 ft (12000 m)

range 460 nm ( 740 km)

Weight

empty 8,036 lb (3645 kg)

loaded 10,864 lb (4928 kg)

Dimensions

span 36 ft 5 in (11.11 m)

length 31 ft 8 in (9.66 m)

hieght 12 ft 10 in (3.92 m)

wing area 220 sq ft (20.5 m2)

Armament


guns Nose Mounted:
4 x 30 mm type 5 cannon

bomb / rocket load 2 x 264 lb ( 60 kg) bombs or
4 x 132 lb ( 30 kg) bombs

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posted 08-22- 06:32 PM               

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This has the wing and power loading:

J7W1
Dimensions:
Span 11.11 m
Length 9.66 m
Height 3.92 m
Wing area 20.5 m2
Weights:
Empty 3,645 kg
Loaded 4,928 kg
Maximum 5,228 kg
Wing loading 240.4 kg/m2
Power loading 2.3 kg/hp
Performance:
Maximum speed 405 kt at 8,700 m
Cruising speed 228 kt at 4,000 m
Climb to 8,000 m
in 10 min 40 sec
Service ceiling 12,000 m
Normal range 460 naut miles

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posted 08-22- 06:41 PM               

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Fully fuelled without bombs its wing loading is 44.5 lb/sqin which would make it a little worse than a p51 and a little better than a Ju-88C.

TS

[This message has been edited by Tailslide (edited 08-22-2000).]

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posted 08-23- 08:00 AM               

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BnZ fighter - great for deflocking a flight of B-29's I'll bet that there was a fuel takn behind the pilot, one under his seat, and one in front of the pit. I'll probably add in hidden boxes that are the fuel tanks to simulate this. I found one web site that had the cannon access hatch open and it appears to have room behind the cannon to hold a fuel tank.

I also love the canard damange routine you have. There is a lot of extra baggage in the one you sent me (the texture list is quite large ) but the configuration is great, so I'll just cut-n-paste the properties as text over.

In ref to the J7W2, I have to agree that using the 900kw jet engine would make the plane under powered, so I'll dig up info on the two-three other Japanese jets they were working on and possibly use one of those engines.

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posted 08-23- 06:47 PM               

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Any idea what the take-off speed is for this bird? As it is, it is 160, but if I extend the front gear, I can get it down probably 20 mph.

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posted 08-24- 01:02 PM               

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No idea.. I imagine it would be a bit higher than a normal plane since theres no propwash on the control surfaces but just a guess. I had to remove the flaps from it too as they made it do funny things this also increases the takeoff speeds. I don't know if the real plane had flaps or not.

TS

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posted 08-24- 01:38 PM               

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Yep, it did, it ran from the fuselage to the middle point on the wing, just past the rudder. It was split into two parts a little part on one side of the rudder, and the rest on the other. I am still trying to figure out if the canard's elevators also acted like flaps.

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