posted 08-15- 04:06 PM               

Can a true polygon be created in 3dsmax? How does the max2obj handle this? I saw something about exporting as quads in the plug-in... what does this do? I would guess that it would try to convert co-planer triangles into for sided polys, no?

It seems that low-poly modeling in 3dsmax is not intuitive, but I assume that it is powerfull once you know it... it seems that many people use 3dsmax for low poly modeling.

Thanks for any help

------------------
-Sv =FC=

WWI in SDOE!

posted 08-15- 11:03 PM            

this should help explain what TS is saying..sorry the quality is kinda bad.

this last one shows how i constructed the su26 fuselage...2 lofts. one for the main body and the other one for the piece behind the cockpit. i attached them together, then pushed a bunch of polys and rebuilt a lot of faces.

i have yet to extrude and splines or faces. all i simply do is use splines to contstruct a frame, or cage, and then i convert it to an editable mesh and build faces..probably not the best thing to do, but you can go about mesh modelling in many different ways in max.

as i become more familiar with max, i learn new ways to accomplish things in a faster, more 'cleaner' way.

dan

posted 08-16- 12:10 AM               

Looks like a balsa wood airplane being constructed virtualy HEHE.

posted 08-16- 08:20 AM               

Yes, lofting looks like a good approach for certain jobs. I am more used to simple extruding in order to generate as low poly models as possible, but lofting looks cool for the complicated areas like in your pics there. One cool thing about WWI is that the aircraft are less organic, more squared off.

I understand the quad now, GREAT! But what about polys with more than 4 sides? Are these possible in max? Or must I use multiple squares and triangles?

Also, what is the quickest way to create a flat complex shape like a rib for a wing? I can create an n-gon, then move the verts around. But is there a way I can just click-click-click the verts over my plan image to outline a part like a fuselage former? I see these in your last pic, are those splines? Now splines can have curves or be flat per segment, right? If you use curves, then extrude the former, won't that give you a very high poly count? How about extruding a flat faced spline, would that work?

In AC3D I create a former with let's say 6 sides. Then I extrude with 6 segments. Now scale each former to give the fuselage shape, this results in a nice low poly fuselage like with my Albatros. How is the best way to create a simple mesh like this in 3dsmax? Keep in mind my desire to end up with a fuselage with 36 polys like the one above.

Would I loft it using a flat faceted spline? Would I loft it with a curved spline and then "simplify" the mesh to reduce polys? Would I extrude a n-gon? Would I extrude a spline former?

I know there is no correct answer, but what - in spirit - would be the best way to duplicate my AC3D effort that I described above?

I am just trying to learn the low poly modeling techniques to use in 3dsmax.

Very much thanks for the help, it is very important for me

------------------
-Sv =FC=

WWI in SDOE!

posted 08-16- 09:22 AM               

Sounds like DanW is (among other techniques) creating the fuselage formers using splines, then he lines them up over the plan - this is his "cage." This is akin to what I did in AC3D for my SE5a:

Then I would select two formers and use "convex hull" to have ac3d fill in the transition. But DanW is creating faces by hand, like this I guess:

Let's say you have two formers next to each other. You would select 2 verts from one and also the two corasponding verts of the other. Now you "create surface." This will give you one face, or with 3dsmax, two triangles. Now do the same thing for each neeed face. Now you have a good low poly fuselage section!

Is this correct DanW?

posted 08-16- 10:21 AM            

For my wings, this is how I do them :

[img] http://www.paintaholics.com/images/Wing3.jpg[/img]

You can see that I have three splines here. The larger one for the base of the wing where it meets the fuselage, and the smaller one is obviously for the tip. The third is a trace of the actual wing itself, from my plans. I use this to line up my cross-sectional splines.

[img]http://www.paintaholics.com/images/Wing4.jpg
[/img]

The cross sections are then rotated into the proper positon for construction. The tranform type in tool is very, very handy, and I use it for all aspects of building and texture mapping.

Here you can see the splines after they are moved into position. The vertices have been snapped into place with the 3d snap tool.

Then, I attached the splines together......just the two cross-sections and not outline piece.

Now I don't have a picture of what I did next...I just converted the spline to and editable mesh...it will then turn into a mesh with the faces all screwed up. Just go into sub-object mode, select all the faces and then delete them. When it askes to delete isolated vertices, select no. You use these to create the new faces.

Here you can see the verts after the faces have been deleted. You then go into sub-object mode/ face and select create faces.

Now, you just select a vertex and move in a counter clockwise direct to construct your faces. I didnt include a section on how I built the wing tips, but I simply created another spline, attached it to the wing, and then built faces for it in the same fashion.

After the wing was built, I selected all the verts and then welded them. Then I selected all the faces and applied an auto-smooth at 60.0

As far as a polygon goes...it all breaks down into three vert and three edges to make a face. YOu can creat a n-gon surface of any number of sides, but its still made up of triangles. Or you can just create primitives and push verts around. Personally, I like to use splines..........it's more work, but its a lot cleaner operation for me.

Also, the a good thing to do is one of the most dreaded....READ.. I know these max books make little sense, but pick a chapter..read it, then try the tutorials, then try and build some stuff. Then go back and re-read what you dont understand..and eventually it will start to sink in.

posted 08-16- 10:48 AM               

Now what you are doing there for the wing is much more work that I would have to do to build a wing in AC3D that has optimized polys as well (not triangles). There must be an easier way, no?

First off, you should be able to select both of the ribs you have there and make 3dsmax to the "create faces" work, AC3D can do this. Does 3Dsmax have a convex hull operation?

Also, when you lofted the wing, why were the faces not good? From what I have read, the lofting function of 3dsmax can be the "convex hull" function ac3d and much more. If you build your cross sections and then loft it, shouldn't it be perfect?

Also, could you do this: create the inner rib like you have there. Then extrude it all the way to the tip. Now edit the tip rib, scale it down, whatever. Now you have the same wing in 2 steps, right?

I am going to go read all your stuff and look at your pics much closer, this is so great! I really feel like I have started now... this is very exciting. I will be taking 3 days off soon to learn low poly modeling in 3dsmax.

And Pete, I am still holding on to your phone-call offer, does it have an expiration date?

-Sv

posted 08-16- 11:08 AM            

On my wing, the reason I deleted the faces was 1) because I was going really fast for a demonstartion and 2) the first vertex in each spline wasn't aligned. This caused some of the faces to have flipped normals when I created an editable mesh.

I prefer to manually build faces anyway....guess cause I'm a control freak. There are much faster ways to construct surfaces. I'm still learning myself, but this is what works for me so far. When you manually build, you get a clean mesh. When you loft or have MAX do it, you take your chances.

Talk to Pete or JT, someone who knows Max better than I do. All I do is ask around and then practice and do what I feel is comfortable.

posted 08-18- 04:44 PM               

Yes, offer is still good with no expiration date
http://www.effectware.com/web/frame.htm

At this site, Effectware, there are some awesome plugin's for Max. Click on the version you have and get the following...
Airfoil.dlo - An airfoil shape editor
Wing.dlo - Wing Maker 1.1

I haven't used the first one at all but the Wing.dlo was used to make my most recent PBY wings that I sent to Snickers, and also on the B-24. They make it real easy!

posted 08-18- 05:22 PM            

Thanks, will check it out.

Joe,

What I mean by smoothing is to select all the faces on the object and apply the autosmooth button, at about 45-60.