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Enhancing the damage models

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Author	Topic: Enhancing the damage models
Snickers Pilot	posted 07-23- 08:51 PM I know that several excellent designers (LK for one...) Have come up with more realistic ways to inflict damage on the plane. I also know that it is preferred to have the new models do this and as time allows, refit the old ones. Has someone wiritten what the current damage model should look like? If not, which plane do you recommend I tear apart and evaluate? This would be nice to know so I can plan in advance for the PBY. Also if I'm going to work on the P38J, I may as well try adding this in at the same time.... Thanks, hoping this topic becomes one I want to print... ------------------ Snickers =FC= IP: Logged
Tailslide Pilot	posted 07-24- 02:41 AM Hi, heres the yak engine DM. I adapted it from the I-16 and made it more vulnerable since the I-16 is a radial engine. TS -- (obFunc (NoFuel (engFuelSource 'none))) (obFunc (FuelLeak (obSmokeTrail (smkDiameter 1 smkLifetime 20,60 smkOrigin 0.8,1,1 smkColor 160,160,160 smkDensity 0.3) obProb ( 15 (engSFC 460) 20 (engSFC 920) 30 (engSFC 1840) 35 (engSFC 3280) )))) (obFunc (SmallEngineFire (obSmokeTrail (smkOrigin 0,1,1.5 smkLifetime 0 smkDiameter 0.7 smkColor 30,35,45 smkDensity 0.4 smkFire)))) (ObKillDelay 0) (obDamage (obHits 65 obNoDamageChain onDmg 1 (engMaxHP 1100,2300 obSmokeTrail (smkDiameter 1 smkLifetime 20,60 smkOrigin 0.8,1,1 smkColor 160,160,160 smkDensity 0.3)) onDmg 2 (obProb ( 35 ( obExec (Name 'engine Func 'SmallEngineFire)) 65 ( obExec (Name 'engine Func 'FuelLeak)) )) onDmg 5 (obProb ( 50 ( obExec (Name 'engine Func 'SmallEngineFire)) 50 (obExec (Name 'engine Func 'FuelLeak)) )) onDmg 7 (obExec (Name 'Yak3 Func 'EngineFire )))) [This message has been edited by Tailslide (edited 07-24-2000).] IP: Logged
Tailslide Pilot	posted 07-24- 02:44 AM I toughened up the wings and wingtips and fuselage, tail then added more fire code to the inner wings so the wings tanks can burn. This makes it more likely the plane will catch fire and less likely there is a catastrophic failure. Hers the DM for the inner left wing: (obFireResistant 1) (obDamage (obHits 80 onDmg 0.9 (obSmokeTrail (smkDiameter 1 smkLifetime 60 smkDensity .4 smkColor 100,50,0 smkOrigin 1,0,-1) obExec (Name 'engine Func 'FuelLeak)) onDmg 1 (obProb ( 30 (obExec (Name 'LFuelTank Func 'SmallTankFire)) 70 (obExec (Name 'engine Func 'FuelLeak)) )) onDmg 2 (obProb ( 50 (obExec (Name 'LFuelTank Func 'SmallTankFire)) 50 (obExec (Name 'engine Func 'FuelLeak)) )) onDmg 8 (obProb ( 25 (obExplode 2,20) 75 (obExec (Name 'Yak3 Func 'TankFire)) )))) IP: Logged
jedi Pilot	posted 07-24- 10:18 AM In addition to the Yak, you should look at the P-47(the newest one from CP 1.1) and the I-16 and also the D-VII. Lots of cool stuff in those. The Corsair has some stuff like losing control surfaces and landing gear and a simplified gun jam model. The control surface stuff isn't fully-working yet tho... ------------------ --jedi-- IP: Logged
Laika 801 Pilot	posted 07-24- 10:22 AM Hmmm - I will post some things in the next days - pics, schemes, figures, code etc. wich will describe the DM for the Pe2-engines. I'm still at 0%, so I need 1 or 2 days to get it working LK IP: Logged
wakeup tailgunner Pilot	posted 07-24- 10:37 AM Wow! This stuff actually makes some sense.... Has anyone tried applying this to some of the big 4 engined bombers? Burning wing tanks followed by a big bang.... Engines on fire....... YES PLEASE! Cannon shells in the wing tanks brought down even B17's quickly. A nice offset to the tougher B17 DM? As an aside, just read a good book about the Scwinefurt raid about B17's. The authors plane a B17F calle Tondelayo came back rom a mission badly shot up, and over a dozen unexploded cannon shells were removed from the wing tanks! When investigated, the shells were found to be empty, with a note pushed into one from the Czech forced labourers who had made them, announcing their contribution to the allied war effort! Don't suppose we could model sabotage of ordinance? IP: Logged
Falck Pilot	posted 07-24- 11:15 AM Can we start keeping a database of pluggable code like this somewhere? IMO it would be much more convenient to have bits of code like this at a central location for plane makers to have easy access to it. It would save a lot of time. Maybe we could also keep some .sm's in a central location too. Just one question, is it more or less efficient to use externally referenced things for aircraft, like gunsights, props, and tires? Things that were shared by several aircraft types. IP: Logged
Laika 801 Pilot	posted 07-24- 02:04 PM My thoughts : I will do a "DM-scheme" for all major parts like engine(s), tanks etc., parallel to the DM I do for the Pe-2. This scheme shows the theorie behind the code, its easier to understand and we can discuss it... Of course I'll also post plain DM-code, you had to tell me in wich format it should come (.txt ?). I think the "engine-thing" could be ready tomorrow (maybe partly..). Small preview ? so long.. LK IP: Logged
Laika 801 Pilot	posted 07-24- 03:33 PM Hmmm - I thought about it again, and I had to say the I16-DM is not very good, I mean it has some "shortcomings". I.e. this scenario: A bomber/plane with more than 1 tank/engine - one engine is damaged, the engine-SFC is increased to 200%, but you can still fly with it, now your second wing tank gets hit, the "Leak" function thingy would mabye set the engSFC back to 120% - and this would be no good. I also think that the most planes with more than one tank got a mechanism like valves etc.) when one tank has a leak, the others don't lose their fuel. etc pp LK IP: Logged
Laika 801 Pilot	posted 07-24- 05:03 PM ohh - the should be a : ( ..another thing - 5 mintues ago I found out that beer is not compatible with my keyboard, but this is off-topic... LK IP: Logged
charmstar Pilot	posted 07-24- 07:45 PM I know, isn't it a bummer that you can't put in relative values? Like EngSFC = EngSFC + 100 charm IP: Logged
wakeup tailgunner Pilot	posted 07-25- 04:21 PM Didn't I read somewhere that you could tell an engine where it gets it's fuel from? If each engine had a seperate fuel tank would it cure the problem? IP: Logged
Raider Pilot	posted 07-25- 08:42 PM You can kill engines by using a obKillDelay. The DVII uses this with a obProb (obFunc (EngKill (obProb (25 (obKillDelay 30 ) 25(obKillDelay 60) 25(obKillDelay 240) This can be called if the radiator, fuel tank, engine etc. are hit. You can reduce engine performance by adding this too. This is from the new P-51D onDmg 2 (obSmokeTrail (smkDiameter 4 smkLifetime 0) engMaxHP 1720, 2000 This reduces the RPM from the original 3000 to 2000. You really feel the loss of power. If this is set low enough it makes the engine sputter. (But the whole plane shakes - Good for WW I but not single engine WW II planes) I have not tried this on the Multi engine planes yet. Also by reducing the orginal RPM it makes all the gauges move to MAX line. You will know you have engine trouble. I think this would work great for the multi engine planes. You do not have to use the EngSFC to kill an engine faster I would like to take on the B-17 Damage model If I have time. ------------------ Raider 33rd~GS Raiders Site IP: Logged
Tailslide Pilot	posted 07-25- 10:22 PM It's good for fuel leaks though.. it makes your fuel guage go down. IP: Logged
Raider Pilot	posted 07-25- 10:35 PM LOL, can't argue that Some planes (P-51) had self-sealing fuel tanks, but I am sure they could lose a fuel line. ------------------ Raider 33rd~GS Raiders Site IP: Logged
Laika 801 Pilot	posted 07-26- 07:22 AM The huge increase of the engine SFC should do one thing - cause the pilot to stop this engine at once (or not) to stop wasting fuel (on 2 engined planes) and go home... I wonder when i.e. the KillDelay of the engine is set to 30, after 30 seconds it gets killed - that would mean the whole weight would go donw the closet and this would change the CG of the plane. But an leaked engine does normaly stay in the plane or not ? IP: Logged
Laika 801 Pilot	posted 07-26- 07:25 AM check out this topic to read about engine DM things: http://www.fightersquadron.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/000976.html LK IP: Logged
kopper JAG	posted 07-28- 08:47 PM Don't know how I missed this one. I traded some info with a fellow who has been researching WWII airforce ammo for 20 years. The first problem with the DM is the ammo is not correctly modelled. Eg. german MINE rounds are not modelled at all strickly HE. The amount of damage a 20mm round can do is dispreportionate to the .50 cal and .303 rounds in the sim. Plus the damage models between planes is out of wack. Eg. it takes only 3 x 20mm cannon shells to destroy a Lanc or B17 yet it takes 7 to destroy a fighter, wrong. Let me dig up my tables and I will show you what I was using as a benchmark. ------------------ Kopper Fortunae Nihil (Nothing to Chance) OPPs Making SDOE a Dangerous place. One plane at a time. IP: Logged
Laika 801 Pilot	posted 07-29- 03:29 AM Kopper - I'm very interested - and there will be (is) a (medium) bomber which could explode after 2 hits, or with some luck, could eat up to 20 and still is one piece LK IP: Logged
CrossbowArcher Pilot	posted 07-29- 04:50 AM off topic ahem...only 1 50mm shell is needed IP: Logged
Spanky the Mad Dog Pilot	posted 07-29- 01:23 PM Spanky here... Falck... That sounds kinda like that library of standard functions that we were talking about months ago, So when your building a plane you can just pick and chose parts, dof sequences and fm and dm stuff. Someone could put together an SM called library and just fill it to the brim with all kinds of crazy stuff and you could pick and chose stuff in that OR maybe Bryan could add some sort of library tool or section into OPS and people could release parts as little text files with a little *.lib extension and they could be organized into folders for each part, so if you need a DM model for your engine you just open the library function surf into DMs and then into engine and then pick the right one or the closest one for your plane, and hit apply and it auto copy-pastes it into place. After people were done the model they could just plug in all the code from that Code-base/library and have a functioning plane pretty quickly. About the whole ammo issue, yeah its sucks that its not modeled better, and a little story. I was reading a book on Canadian CF86s and they were talking about the 6 50 cals on it, They said that one time during firing practice at a drone a round bounced off the tow bar and ended up shearing the main wing spar of the comet towing. Just goes to show you that even the little pop guns are still leathal weapons. IP: Logged
Laika 801 Pilot	posted 07-29- 02:10 PM Spanky - Hey ! Thats my thought since months too, and so I'll use the Pe2.sm for all future projects (if there any), i.e. Bf110 and other 2 engined planes. I'll also release an "normal" fighter .sm with a good Dm etc. So all to do would be a new 3D model and some small changes i.e. in the DM, of course a new FM too. Would be good if all the builders could use the same "base"... LK IP: Logged

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