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Author	Topic: Mistel Project Help!
ArgonV Pilot	posted 07-07- 03:02 PM Ok, now I run into the problems... So far, I have an idea how to make the thing detach. Its called a breaking DOF. Now how do implement that? The only way right now that Ive gotten the thing to detach is by slamming the Ju-88 into the ground really hard. Once the Bf-109 detaches I can lower the gear and get into the cockpit, but I have no control! BUT, if I hit SHIFT-F6 the AI can control it! Wierd eh? How do I make it so I can control it? Also, after the Bf-109 deteches it explodes after a while. Now I have managed to come up with some radio control method. It needs improving but here's what I got so far... On experimenting with the breaking DOFs the Bf-109 detached immediatly after the Taking Off mission started. So there I was on the ground in my Bf-109 and I decided just for kikks to turn the engines on to see if they worked. Well the Ju-88 started up to my amazement! I also had control of her! So while my Bf-109 and I were on the ground, I was controlling the Ju-88 in the air. It was fun So people, any ideas? help? Thanks! IP: Logged
Aladar Pilot	posted 07-07- 04:39 PM Well, I tried tackling that too. They say you make a airfoil with alot of drag, align it with the fuse so it is streamlined and doesn't affect anything, then you make a dof on it that rotates the airfoil, the drag will rip off the piece, but you gotta put it....... tell you what, I'll forward you the messages I got on the subject, look at your inbox. IP: Logged
Royohboy Pilot	posted 07-08- 06:00 AM Argon, Aladar, Mistels in combat configuration were controlled only from the Bf 109 or Fw 190 that sat on the Ju 88's back. The Ju 88 itself wasn't really controlled. The Pilot would dive onto the target, aim, and release the Mistel at the very last moment. After that he'd try to get away from the AAA-fire (Mistel-targets were usually quite heavily defended since they were strategic targets). I have a book were a former Mistel pilot decribes missions, and also the Mistel itself. I'll make a few scans later if you want. Peter IP: Logged
Laika 801 Pilot	posted 07-08- 07:03 AM Might be that I missed something - all I know (not much) about the mistel-conzept is that the Ju88 was used as a bomb, with no control after release. So I wonder, why not make a Ju88 bomb (remove all "useless" properties like gear-dofs...crew positions, remove all useless parts..., tune the phyInertiaThings) and place it on a extra pylon with a nice lod ? This way you wont run into problems ?! Years ago I worked with bombs in OPS and there was nothing special in the .sm file, just some airfoils and phyInertia. So it should work !? LK IP: Logged
Royohboy Pilot	posted 07-08- 08:15 AM Laika is right. On operational Mistels the cockpit of the Ju 88 got removed and a warhead bolted on instead. The Ju 88's gear and control-surfaces, however, should remain in the Ju 88. If the control-surfaces on the Ju 88 cause problems try deleting the DOFs - Mistels were sluggish as hell, anyway. Flying formation with these crates was out of the question. [This message has been edited by Royohboy (edited 07-08-2000).] IP: Logged
Army puke SFC Pilot	posted 07-08- 09:12 AM crate? Its a flying barn IP: Logged
Maury Markowitz Pilot	posted 07-10- 12:29 PM quote: Originally posted by ArgonV: So far, I have an idea how to make the thing detach. Its called a breaking DOF. Now how do implement that? How about a gun with a single round right behind the DOF for the connection point? Can we have controls for additional "guns"? Maury IP: Logged
Razer Pilot	posted 07-10- 12:48 PM Have you tried it online to see i someone can pilot the 109 while you pilot the ju88? ------------------ Tony "Razer" Martin http://www.fshangar.com IP: Logged
mposis Pilot	posted 07-10- 02:14 PM I agree with Laika and Royohboy. Just make it a bomb. IP: Logged
Laika 801 Pilot	posted 07-10- 04:26 PM Even if you got it work in any other way (with breaking odfs or whatever) - I still see another problem - how to tell SDOE/OP that the JU88 behaves like a single new aircraft when it is released from the Bf109 ? I did some tests and earned allways CTD's or hard crashs. Did the V1 work this way ? LK IP: Logged
jedi Pilot	posted 07-11- 10:29 AM I think I would use the "breaking DOF" method for detach: create a small airfoil object, which you extend into the airflow using a DOF. Build a breaking spring property in so that the air causes the part to reach the end of its travel, overpower the spring, and break off. (See P-47 canopy for this). When a part breaks off, you can attach a function to that event (onChildDetach--fakeCanopy, Name--supportBracket, Func--obKill). Hard to describe the way that would look in OPS, but look at some of the damage properties for the Corsair to get an idea what I mean. This would be a way to "vaporize" the bracket holding the Ju-88 to the 109. ------------------ --jedi-- IP: Logged
FarmerJoe Pilot	posted 07-11- 01:38 PM Okay one thing all of you are forgetting to overlook is that when something is detached from another object it is gonna get killed by SDOE even if you don't put a obKillDelay property on it. I cannot remember what the default is but I think it is 240 seconds. I also can't remember if you can make it to where it never gets killed. AH HA yall say? ------------------ Subaltern FarmerJoe Axis West Three Amigo IP: Logged
ArgonV Pilot	posted 07-11- 08:12 PM Wow guys! Thanks for the replys! Ive ben gone for a few days but I will reply to all these issues. Aladar: Thanks! This info will prove VERY usefull! Roy: Yes I knew the Ju-88 was not controlable, and it will be the same when Im finished with it. I will also make this thing sluggish as hell. Laika:If at all possible I want the Ju-88 to be an actual plane instead of a bomb. I need working engines, landing gear, and control surfaces. Also, I have solved the CTD problem. The Ju-88 is an actual aircraft whether it has ben released or not. The V-1 I did, did NOT crash the game upon its release or destruction. Maury: Ive never thought about this. For now I'll stick with the breaking DOF idea. That seems to have progress. Razer: Im not even done so Ive never tried it online. Yet... Mposis: See my response to Lakia. Jedi: Yes I will keep the breaking DOF idea. Thanks for the input! FarmerJoe: Yes I CAN make it where the Ju-88 never gets killed until impact. Its called obKillDelay 0 [This message has been edited by ArgonV (edited 07-11-2000).] IP: Logged
FarmerJoe Pilot	posted 07-12- 02:42 AM Okay bubby just makin sure because you said that your plane mysteriously blew up...That's because of SDOE killing it because I had a similar problem before ------------------ Subaltern FarmerJoe Axis West Three Amigo IP: Logged
ArgonV Pilot	posted 07-12- 03:34 AM Yup FarmerJoe it did, but then I read the OPS readme, lol it explained it all. ATTENTION!!! NEW PROBLEM!!! Ok, I now have it where I can control the bf-109 upon the Ju-88s release. BUT, I get a problem on takeoff. The plane (the whole Mistel) flips upside down on the start of take off! WHY!!! Its sooo pissing me off!!! Ive looked at everything (at least I think) and I cant find the reason. Oh yeah I have discovered something the hard way. A child object CANT weigh more than its parent object in OPS. If it does, upon that childs destruction the game freezes. It took me 5 game freezes for me to figure that one out. But I still dont know why the Mistel now flips upside down on take off! Before when I had the bf-109 as a child of the Ju-88 it didnt flip. But now that I have the Ju-88 as the child it flips! Any reason? answeres???? IP: Logged
ArgonV Pilot	posted 07-12- 11:19 AM Moving to top... IP: Logged
ArgonV Pilot	posted 07-12- 07:03 PM Ok another problemo... Actually its an old one but it annoys me too. When I press 'A' to release the Ju88, when the Spring breaks the Ju88 jolts backwards and then descends to the ground. Any ideas?? BTW I still havent figured out why it flips at the start of takeoff. Would someone like to look at the SM for me? IP: Logged
Pete Hawk Pilot	posted 07-13- 08:04 AM Heck yes! Send me that SM Argon, sounds really fun. I'll see if I can't muster up some of the old OP magic hawker@jackedin.com IP: Logged
ArgonV Pilot	posted 07-13- 11:33 AM Pete, its on its way. IP: Logged
Pete Hawk Pilot	posted 07-13- 04:48 PM Argon, Thanks for sending it, now if I could only fly it. I keep getting CTD upon entering a mission. I've noticed that under the loadout where it says "Mistel" you I see lots of guns, but no bomb types. Here's what I got from you... ) ) ) (ordLoadouts "Mistel") (ordLoadMistel (ordInitList ( (gunChainInit 0 0 1 1800) (gunChainInit 1 1 0 600) (gunChainInit 2 1 1 1500) (gunInit (gunName 'gun1 gunMV 2395 gunWeight .0763 gunROF 900 gunWarhead 0 gunAmmo 300 gunChain 0 gunSound "sndMG3" gunRange 1200)) (gunInit (gunName 'gun2 gunMV 2395 gunWeight .0763 gunROF 900 gunWarhead 0 gunAmmo 300 gunChain 0 gunSound "sndMG3" gunRange 1200)) (gunInit (gunName 'cannon5 gunMV 1657 gunWeight .6878 gunROF 600 gunWarhead .3043 gunAmmo 67 gunChain 1 gunSound "sndCannon2" gunRange 1200)) )) ) If I try to create a mission for it it says "invalid loadout or property type". So then I added strMistel "Mistel" to the StringTable, so now I can see Mistel in the mission editor when I have the Mistel selected, but I think it needs to be pointing to a bomb in the loadout, not just guns. Is this the same loadout.ppf file that is working now for you? No luck here... help please. IP: Logged
ArgonV Pilot	posted 07-13- 06:17 PM I am working on this to see whats going on. The only time that particular incident has happened to me was when I created a hangar mission and named the hangar mission MistelS1.MIS instead of Mistel1.MIS Check to see if you unzipped the zip into Mistel1 in your Media\aircraft directory. There are no bomb loadouts for the Mistel1. All it should point to are just the guns. IP: Logged
Pete Hawk Pilot	posted 07-13- 06:54 PM Thanks for the email help Argon, the latest Plane Pack fixed it. First of all, congrats on a GREAT idea! It's so cool! hehe It's so neat that it actually works too. I was able to land but the tail gear wouldn't steer on the Ju88, so before I hit a building I tried to steer away at max power. I went from grass to concrete and the little "jolt" broke the 109 free. Too cool. Gotta mess with it more though, I'll get back to you later on about my findings. This is really fun stuff. Ok, just looked into the starting on runway problem. I know why it's doing this. When you enter a mission the airplanes are dropped onto the ground if starting at an airfield. What I THINK is happening it that drop is putting too much stress on your attachement point, breaking it. The 109 falls onto the Ju88 causing hell to break loose. If you could somehow toughen up the Y axis (up/down) of the attachment point so it's VERY strong, I think it'd work. Also though it could be this. Since you are sitting inside the 109 and it's origin is MUCH higher than usual for an airplane, the game is dropping you from a much higher starting point, plopping you down onto the runway HARD. This also would have adverse effects on what I said above. You may be able to fix it but then again, maybe not. If I can think of anything I'll let you know. [This message has been edited by Pete Hawk (edited 07-13-2000).] IP: Logged
ArgonV Pilot	posted 07-13- 07:22 PM No problem and thanks for enjoying it! Its a miracle that this idea is half way working. I have ben unable to get the tail steer for either the bf-109 or the Ju-88 working. As for your solution(s) I'll look into this right away. I'll strengthen up the DOF and see what happens. The weird thing is, before I had the bf-109 as a child of the Ju88 and it started on the runway just fine. I had the pilot in the bf-109 on that scheme as well. But the draw back was once the Ju-88 was released you couldnt control the bf-109 so I had to switch to where the Ju-88 is a child of the bf-109. Have you noticed that the whole thing starts off close to the ground and 'bounces' high in the air? Thats too wierd. Another possible solution have have ben thinking about is that it has something to do with the weight and wheel positions. But I have no clue how to do that. IP: Logged
Pete Hawk Pilot	posted 07-13- 07:52 PM Well, how I see it is this. SDOE is seeing the 109 and not the JU88 when it starts out at an airfield. Since the Ju88 is sitting lower than the ACTIVE model (the 109 which you are in) I think it's freaking out, not expecting that big plane to be underneath which in fact IS very near to the ground. That's why it pops up I think. Not sure how to fix that though. IP: Logged
ArgonV Pilot	posted 07-13- 07:55 PM Well, its not the attachment-breaking-due-to-stress thats the problem. I upped the DOF breakpoint a little so it doesnt detach at the slightest little bump. No go there, she still bounces in the air at takeoff. I did however try somethng else. Move the Ju-88 above the bf-109 in OPS and start a take off mission. It doesnt bounce! The bf-109s gear breaks but thats understandable. That tells me its something to do with the wheels and weight. IP: Logged
CrossbowArcher Pilot	posted 07-13- 07:59 PM I'm just starting to poke my nose into the .sm file IP: Logged
Pete Hawk Pilot	posted 07-13- 08:03 PM Try this! Put a tiny little part down where the bottom of the JU88's main tires are in contact with the ground, but have it be of the 109 model itself. Just some little tiny cube or something like that even has break away properties at X speed or something. This way since SDOE will see that as part of the current player plane (the 109) it should gently set you down. Nevermind, didn't work. Bummer. [This message has been edited by Pete Hawk (edited 07-13-2000).] IP: Logged
ArgonV Pilot	posted 07-14- 12:52 AM Ahh too bad... I know! How about cut/pasting the Ju-88s wheels to the bf-109 but keep them in the same spot? IP: Logged
Pete Hawk Pilot	posted 07-14- 02:54 AM Nope, just tried that last one too, no luck. Hmmm. IP: Logged
ArgonV Pilot	posted 07-14- 07:04 PM I have just come to the conclusion (after test, after test, after test...) that the reason the thing is jumping in air at the start of take off has nothing to do with the Ju-88s landing gear. So lets move out of that relm and enter a whole new one. IP: Logged
charmstar Pilot	posted 07-14- 07:13 PM Did you set the wheel points to the correct values at the base level for the aircraft? I believe this is what determines the plane's starting position when SDOE loads it in the game. If your base model is high above ground, then the z coord of these values should be large negative numbers (like -20 or something?) good luck, charm IP: Logged
ArgonV Pilot	posted 07-14- 07:45 PM How do I find out what the correct wheel points are? I just used the ones that came with the Ju-88. IP: Logged
Pete Hawk Pilot	posted 07-14- 09:17 PM Thanks Charmstar, looking into that now. I'll fill you in Argon if I get it to work. IP: Logged
ArgonV Pilot	posted 07-14- 09:21 PM Thanks Pete! IP: Logged
Pete Hawk Pilot	posted 07-14- 10:34 PM Ok, I moved the ob Pts of the 109's tires to where they should be on the Ju88's tires. Tried it, same thing, planes flip. Thought maybe the landing gear was breaking, reduced weight down to just 2000 lbs for both aircraft, and again, it flipped. I'm pretty much stumped now. It would be so nice if this could work. Have you tried making the Ju88 the primary plane and attaching a 109 on top for release? Kinda like how the shuttle was launched from the 747 top? Kinda backwards I know but it'd be interesting to see if it could work. Anyone else who cares to try can now step forward. I'll keep mulling this over in my mind, maybe something will click. IP: Logged
ReaperMan Pilot	posted 07-14- 11:40 PM ArgonV, Please send the SM to me at ccramblit@islc.net. I want to take a look at this puppy! ------------------ -=TheReaper=- IP: Logged
ArgonV Pilot	posted 07-15- 02:57 AM Pete, I have tried just the opposite (I mentioned it some where in the above post) It does take off but the problems are when the Ju-88 is released, you cant control the bf-109 anymore. I am stumped as well... Reaperman, you will have mail soon. IP: Logged

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