posted 05-01- 04:25 PM               

Hi guys. I'm looking for any Plans, drawings and photos of the BF109.

ANY and all models.

I can find plenty of drawings and photos of the full plane but i'm looking for data and plans with detail. and cockpit, landing gear, radiators and other such detail.

This isn't for SDOE. But you guys probly have tons of this lying around.

I'm looking into the feasiblity of a 3/4 scale Bf109 homebuilt.

I don't want now stinking P51 like everyone else.

Thanks.

posted 05-01- 09:10 PM               

In my opinion, I would go with a kit. To go off on your own and build a plane from scratch involves ALOT of work (and I'm not talking about actually building the thing). There are many standards to which an amateur-built aircraft is made to. If your plane doesn't meet these standards (even 1), you can't fly it

Here's what your up against:
http://www.tc.gc.ca/aviation/general/ccarcs/howdoi/Amateur-built_aircraft.htm

Here are the Standards:
http://www.tc.gc.ca/aviation/regserv/carac/CARS/cars/549/toc.htm

Just imagine what Boeing hasto go through to bring a 747 into canada!

But it would be cool to own and build a BF 109 of your own though, I hope it works out for you spanky!

------------------
Cheers!
Jaguar
The FS Hangar

posted 05-01- 10:35 PM               

Scale drawings are ok for model-making, but using a real blueprint would be better. Don't forget that your well-being would be on the line. To blow-up small scale drawings to almost actual size would throw everything out of proportion.

posted 05-01- 11:22 PM               

Jag. these are the regs I found.

I'll look at what ya gave me too. Thanks a ton.
----------------------------------
Amateur-Built
(also called home built or experimental)
Call Letters - C-Fxxx or C-Gxxx
Weight Limits - 4000 lbs gross weight
Government Standard - T51-13-549E
Construction By - owner (aircraft must by at least 51% built by owner, and have 2 inspections before flight)
Aircraft Modifications - owner permitted to make modifications
Maintenance - by owner, entered in an aircraft log book, annual activity report submitted to Transport Canada.
Minimum Pilot Permit/License - Recreational Pilot Permit. However, if the aircraft meets the new definition of ultralight, it can be flown by an ultralight pilot, but not with a passenger.
Passenger Carrying - Permitted with Recreational Pilot Permit or higher license.
-------------------------------------

I only said 3/4 because I don't want no huge V12 gas guzzler in that sucker. I have heard of people converting Auto V8s. Which would be alot cheaper to overhaul and maintain. And gas up.

The reason I don't want to go with a kit is there isn't any of any planes I want that I could find. I only found a bunch of P51s and a p40 that ran at 100mph tops speed. Which isn't what I want.

Thanks a TON for the standards man. Thats great stuff.

Beoing might have to go through alot but I'm not trying to sell a pasenger carrying plane to anyone.

Tiger Yeah I may have seen one of those. Was there an episode on the V8 engine? That show is the best. I wish I could find it more.

Yeah Daunt the blueprints would be better BUT I can't invest in somthing like that IF they can even be obtained. I don't think they would nessisarly be warped while enlarging BUT I only want them to study the feasiblity like:

What engines can you fit in it and at what scales.
Same with pilot.
How much would it cost to make it
how much would it approx weigh
what kind of construction methods would it require.

Don't worry I won't forget about my well being. LOL well maybe just for sec at 300mph Tree top level. HAHAH

Yes its an far fetched dream. One I will admit, has a very small chance of happening. But thats why its a dream right?

Can ya imagine it boys? A carbon black and polished alum Bf 109?

It would be amazing looking.

posted 05-01- 11:26 PM               

Jag. Great link man. So far I havn't seen anything that scares me yet.
I'll let ya know if I do.

You too Tiger thats a great link.

So daunt can ya send me any plans if you have any lying around? Pretty please?

Oh yeah and If anyone knows where I could find a set of blueprints that would be great too.

posted 05-02- 04:18 AM               

K I found some guys in the states that made 2 100% scale 109s out of fiberglass.

So it is duable. They won't sell any kits cause they are worried about liability. I guess I don't blame them.

I would rather scale down at least a bit and use carbon or kevlar for lighter wieght and more strength too.

posted 05-02- 02:48 PM               

I've seen the pages also, but can't help but wonder (this is the am-I-being-duped-me speaking) is this for real? What kind of engine are they using in them?
Are those guys not letting anyone get the plans simply for fear of being sued to the curb? That is a shame beyond comprehension and really says a thing or two about the FAA.
check out the page!
<www.web-birds.com/miller>

PS- I'll be in Fargo in July/august. Casselton ain't that far away. Guess where I'm going!

posted 05-02- 04:21 PM               

Yeah Kraft. I don't know what their problem is. TONS of people make plans and kits and sell them and don't seem to be worried about being sued.

Its all messed. I emailed them and asked them for a source for plans or blueprints. I don't want to buy it from them so maybe they can help. Or maybe not.

BTW I don't think its a dupe. I guess it could be but why?

If your wondering about power plant I have so far seen 2 v12 engines avalible.

And at least 4 seperate kitplanes that use a big block chevy V8 auto engine adapted to run in reverse.

Here's some cool links to check out.
www.team-38.com
working on a p38 90% replica with V8s
will do kits
www.stewart51.com
Full scale v8 or v12
does kits
www.corsair82.com
fiberglass, P&W junior wasp 82% scale
will do kits
www.web-birds.com/miller
full scale fiberglass Bf 109s
unknown engine and no plans or kits
http://www.thundermustang.com
Full scale Carbon fiber P51 with a V12 powerplant
kits avalible

As you can see everyone pics a scale that they find works best with the plane or powerplant that they plan to use.

The more I think about it the more I'm thinking of Bf109e with a tuned and maybe supercharged big block chevy 502 bored out to a larger size. Which should put out in the area of 550-700 hp.

I think with the combo of a lighter engine and airframe, and the lack of guns, ammo and pilot armor.

AND the fact that a mostly molded carbon skin will be smoother.

SHOULD end up with some decent performance.

I have been looking into the rules and stuff and it looks doable.

Now I need to learn more about aircraft design and working with composites cause i think they are the best thing for the job.

BTW I plan on taking a huge chunk of time to do this. That makes it easier to imagine actually coming true.

Needless to say this would bring probly one of my if not my biggest dream ever come true.

And I WOULD make kits avalible. LOL

posted 05-02- 04:21 PM               

The blueprints are from Scale Aircraft Drawings - WW2. I don't have SDOE, however I am impressed with the continuous addons this community submits. The constant tutorials, screenshots (wireframes/final version) and textures keep me coming back to learn more. Keep up the excellent work!

Minerva

posted 05-02- 04:41 PM               

WOW man. Those are great. Thats exactly what I was looking for.

Of course Don't let that stop anyone else from sending me some more.

BTW man. Can You get those any larger with No compression? Still JPG but no compression. OR the least possible?

Some of the #s are a little hard to read And I want to print it out.

posted 05-02- 05:47 PM               

Minerva

P.S: I'm a lady, not a man!

posted 05-02- 07:37 PM               

Minerva, I know that when I scan stuff out of books it scans it HUGE. Maybe 2xs as big as those drawings you gave me.

Maybe just do that and JPG with no compression?

BTW i'm Also interested in the P40, So if you have any of those to pass on it would be great too.

THanks a mil. Even these are great if thats all ya can do.

A lady eh? Well its always nice to see some females in such a male dominated area.

Great stuff.

posted 05-02- 09:10 PM               

I have heard of people chopping a VW engine in half and using that in a A/C, but I don't think car engines will give you enough power..... plus they were designed to be installed in a car, not a plane.

Those standards you found are pretty much correct. You should get in touch with your local AIR, and have a chat with him to see EXACTLY whats involed, and how much money this aspect of it will cost.

"So far I havn't seen anything that scares me yet."
Really?!..... Did you even read it? LOL!
just the shear scope of the operation (not to mention the money involved) is amazing. I mean, all the riveting, welding, all the instiallations, all the custiom made parts... WOAH! Not to mention stuff like how the throttle/mixture/prop control is going to work, what materials to make the engine brace out of, What kinda bolts should hold the wing on. I would go NUTZ trying to figure this stuff out!....... then you haveto figure out where to GET the materials

posted 05-02- 10:07 PM               

Well i just spent a half and hour typing out a HUGE answer to ya jag. But then I had an illegal Op. And lost it all

man it was so sweet.

K so maybe turn on your ICQ later tonight and we can chat about it?

That would be great. I'm totally into your imput.

I agree that this is a HUGE undertaking and could/should/will take me years. But it could be worth it.

I plan on doing heavy research to see if its feasible. If those other guys get there fiberglass into the air why can't I?

BTW theres lots of kits flying under V8 Auto power. Read those links.

AND carbon isn't as expensive as you think.

That # is crazy. I have found Carbon for 30-50 a yard.

yes the money and knowlege required is massive. Thats cool though. Everything in life worth having is hard to get is what I hear anyways?

I plan on trying to share the cost with like minded Idividuals.

I could start By making a Fiberglass version.

Hmm maybe I could even sell that fiber prototype to a museum. Damn thats a great idea.

I would also be fine with selling kits. As I will only sell what I would fly. ANd I'm a perfectionist.

I have looked over the specs that you sent me that i have to conform too and really man I don't see any major bars. If you see any let me know. I will be contacting an AIR as you call it. What do those letters stand for again and where would I call to talk to one in my area?

I'm thinking of getting my welding tickets for alum and steel. And have considered returning to college AGAIN LOL 3rd time. Now I have to figure out what I would be best to take.

I don't know if theres a course in working with Composites.

Anyway. Contact me On icq man. You sound like your totally into this.

Maybe I will start a little web page based my my research. That could be a cool way of data basing all my findings. I'm sure you would be into reading that EH?

posted 05-02- 10:54 PM               

That price was for Kevlar, not carbon.
Composits are a tricky thing, you gotta use the right weave, the right resin, and you haveto orient the patters in the right way, If I rember correctly, ther are somthing like 9 layers per sheet, then 2 sheets with honeycomb in the middle for a panel. I don't know of any places that offer comp. courses.

"I would also be fine with selling kits." If you did, you would haveto to do testing and put out airworthiness notices, to imform ALL of your buyers of possible problems.... If one of your kit's crashes...... your in deep do do!

AIR= Airworthiness Inspection Representative. These are the guys that check out your airplane, and give it the OK. Where do you live? I will see if I can look them for you.

LOL! I just finished a course on Aircraft Regulations, and I'm just trying to make everything sink in. Fixing helicopters is only half the battle, the other half is knowing what to fix, and if you can fix it or not..... To tell you thge truth, it ties my head in KNOTS!

The web page is a good idea, I would like to see how it's going.

ICQ is open.

------------------
Cheers!
Jaguar
The FS Hangar

posted 05-03- 06:55 PM               

Some decent news on this front for me.

I Picked up a book at the library about making homebuilt aircraft.

And a book on Messerchmitt.

AND I bought a book on Airport planning and managment. Its an old book but I could help in looking for problems/ideas for a privite strip.

If anyone knows the laws or a site on privite strips in Canada please let me know.

posted 05-03- 07:34 PM               

http://www.tc.gc.ca/aviation/regserv/carac/home_e.htm
Canadian Avation Regulations (CARs)

Get yourself a copy of the CARs Spanky, they have more Regs in there than you can shake a stick at! These are what you are building your bf 109/airstrip too.
http://www.tc.gc.ca/aviation/regserv/carac/OTHER/ENGLISH/inote_e.htm

posted 05-03- 07:50 PM               

TAKE THAT GOVERNMENT OF CANADA! LOL!

BTW browsing through them can be daunting, so open the site map in a separate window, so you can reference it to see where you want to go.
You want the regs now, the Standards are incorporated by reference to the regs, so you'll see them as you go through the regs.

HAVE FUN SPANKY!!!

Here's something interesting:

549.01 A person who intends to construct an aircraft and obtain, under paragraph 507.03(b), a special certificate of airworthiness in the amateur-built category in
respect of the aircraft must

(a) before starting construction,

(i) inform the Minister of the intention to construct the aircraft,

(ii) show that the aircraft design meets the standards specified in Chapter 549 of the Airworthiness Manual, and

(iii) show that the major portion of the aircraft will be constructed from raw material and assembled on a non-commercial, non-production
basis for educational or recreational purposes; and

(b) during construction and again before the first flight, make the aircraft available to the Minister for inspection.

posted 05-03- 07:56 PM               

Thanks JAG.

Great links. I'll be reading and adding them to the pile.

So I have to submit plans first eh.

Well thats ok. Sounds like a better way to do it.

What I'm wondering is I thought Canada used the 51% rule like the states in that the owner of the plane must do more the half the work.

But you Can buy a P51 that has the fuse already layed up and parts. And you bond it all together and finish it off.

posted 05-03- 10:25 PM               

Ok man. Thats What I thought too.

I was hoping that you could buy a kit and not have to do the layup all your self.

posted 05-04- 12:34 AM               

I'm sure there are kits out there where the layup is already done. You could design your plane like this too if you wanted.

posted 05-04- 12:42 AM               

The thunder mustang is sold in fuse halves that are bonded together by the customer

It would be cool if you could sell it already bonded.

I wonder if you could do all the bonding so the customer only had to bolt it together? and do all the machining

posted 05-04- 11:03 PM               

Are you looking for plans to make one or a kit? or what tiger?

posted 05-06- 08:34 PM               

AH ok. yeah i love just looking at plans just for the fun of it too.

posted 05-13- 06:25 PM               

Did you check out the site? The complete kit is US $520,000. If we all chip in a grand we can get one. And Jag with his new degree can put it together.

Can you imagine, a brand new 190! Wow!

posted 05-13- 09:01 PM               

Its cool. But first of all I wouldn't want to pay that much. And its not the plane I want.

Very cool though.