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Author Topic:   OpenWarBirds??
juzz
Pilot
posted 04-07- 10:12 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for juzz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It seems WarBirds III is getting it's 3D plane models from anyone that will make one for them, or something...

Eg: here's their Spitfire Mk V.

And here's the thread of guys picking it to pieces...

This quote from one player is particularly amusing I think...

quote:
Actually, if you know the plane and know the Art of plane weathering a model, you could do the whole plane in an hr.
If you don't know what your doing it could take days.

There's similar threads about the A6M model they have shown too.

Anyway..., just wondering if any of the plane builders here knew/were interested about this.

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mposis
Pilot
posted 04-07- 11:11 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mposis   Click Here to Email mposis     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Posted a reply to the thread: http://lists.imagiconline.com/ubb/Forum19/HTML/000925.html

[This message has been edited by mposis (edited 04-07-2000).]

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DanW
Pilot
posted 04-07- 11:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DanW     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thats excellent weathering effects....

you can't do that in a hour, trust me

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DanW
Pilot
posted 04-07- 11:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DanW     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
WOW....those guys are anal retentive in their. PIIIIICCCKKKKYYYY!! JT, you thought I was bad...jeessh, I am nothing compared to those guys. Wow..LOL

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DanW
Pilot
posted 04-07- 11:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DanW     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Man, the resolution on those aircraft is amazing. CFS II should have the same amout of resolution too. Beautiful detail in those textures. I need to change my shorts.

Will SOMEONE build me a 3d model of a P51 Mustang that is nice and round like JT's Jug?

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mposis
Pilot
posted 04-07- 12:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mposis   Click Here to Email mposis     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Danw,

I thought you were building a P-51 with hires textures.

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Tailslide
Pilot
posted 04-07- 12:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tailslide   Click Here to Email Tailslide     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

Shades of Pachy !

Makes our little corner of the world look downright sane.

TS

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Laika 801
Pilot
posted 04-07- 12:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Laika 801   Click Here to Email Laika 801     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Did someone know where they made the screenshots ?

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DanW
Pilot
posted 04-07- 02:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DanW     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Not building a mustang....i was retexture mapping the default sdoe mustang..

JT spoiled me.

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jedi
Pilot
posted 04-07- 03:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jedi   Click Here to Email jedi     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, as a Warbirds "regular," I can attest to the fact that things DO get a bit "pissy" on the bulletin board over there Much calmer heads (usually) prevailing around here...

The screenshot (or unprogrammed 3D model not incorporated into the sim, depending on which side you choose in the argument) is the Spit V from Warbirds 3.0. There's also several nice shots of 3 different Zero models. They are supposedly the product of iEN's in-house artwork team, and are compatible with 3DS Max. There's even a contest for guys to create 3D models for new Warbirds planes like the Macchi using Max, which can be translated into the game engine pretty quickly apparently.

The humorous part of this, for me, is that you've got basically two camps arguing about it: the diehard WB fans (like me) who don't really care if it's a "true" screenshot or just a shot of the model in progress, but are excited that it might represent the new standard for online aircraft graphics, and the "born again" EX-Warbirders who've flocked over to Aces High, who are trying to convince anyone who'll listen that Warbirds 3.0 is just so much vaporware and the "screenshots" are a hoax.

Now the REALLY funny part is that, if you look at either Aces High OR Warbirds 3-D aircraft models as they exist right NOW, none of em can even hold a candle to what we've got in Fighter Squadron using last year's technology, and most of the guys in both sims would be the first to diss SDOE as a "lightweight" sim based on playing it once a year ago.

Even if the real models that get into the sim are only half as good as that pic, it'll still be TWICE as good as what's in there now, yet all these guys want to do is take potshots at each other. Pretty sad foxhole mentality over there at the moment, but also kind of funny in a Monty Python sort of way

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--jedi--

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DanW
Pilot
posted 04-07- 03:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DanW     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I wonder if I can snag a mustang from one of them lol

I'm like you. I see more the art and historical value than as a game. Either way those planes look nice and I am jealous as hell.

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Tailslide
Pilot
posted 04-07- 04:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tailslide   Click Here to Email Tailslide     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

Are these contest entries posted publicly? Max models can get dumped into SDOE pretty easily too

TS

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Patch It!

TS Aircombat


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dauntless851
Pilot
posted 04-07- 04:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for dauntless851   Click Here to Email dauntless851     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I was following a lot of the links over at that WB forum.
From what I saw, a lot of the 3D models had poly counts any where from 2500 - 4000 and up.

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Laika 801
Pilot
posted 04-07- 05:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Laika 801   Click Here to Email Laika 801     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
2500 - 4000 ? How many planes with this polycount can you use in SDOE with FPS>15 ? Two ?

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DanW
Pilot
posted 04-07- 07:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DanW     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I couldnt find any links....did you find one for a mustang? Could you post it?

Thanks

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dauntless851
Pilot
posted 04-07- 08:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for dauntless851   Click Here to Email dauntless851     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here's a link for you Dan.
http://www.iencentral.com/warbirds/warbirdsiii.shtml


Here's a link for a site with awesome 3d rendered aircraft pics. Check it out!
There's a nice color rendering of the Akagi too.
http://www02.u-page.so-net.ne.jp/sa2/i-tomo/3D%20room-top.html

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[This message has been edited by dauntless851 (edited 04-07-2000).]

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jedi
Pilot
posted 04-07- 09:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jedi   Click Here to Email jedi     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
TS--

The only guy who appears to be entering so far is a guy named Lemsko--pretty talented modeler from some of the stuff he's posted on the Warbirds BBS. He put the initial model for the Macchi up on the iEN board. If you follow Dauntless's link and go "up" in the BBS hierarchy, you'll get to the main UBB board, then look for the "How about a contest" thread.

The rumor I heard was that if your model was accepted, you got $500 and FREE Warbirds for life (!) but that mighta been an April Fools.

No word yet on when there will be a Warbirds 3.0 tho...

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--jedi--

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JG5Jerry
Pilot
posted 04-11- 08:33 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for JG5Jerry   Click Here to Email JG5Jerry     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hehe - I wonder if they'd be interested in this one?:
http://www.hyperscale.com/gallery/fw190a4jb_1.htm

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C/O Jagdgeschwader 5 'Eismeer'

http://www.madasafish.com/jerry/jg5/

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mposis
Pilot
posted 04-11- 09:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mposis   Click Here to Email mposis     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Jerry,

How many polygons does it have?

Also, the page mentioned by dauntless shows some excellent 3d model renderings.

[This message has been edited by mposis (edited 04-11-2000).]

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Tailslide
Pilot
posted 04-11- 09:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tailslide   Click Here to Email Tailslide     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

The warbirds max model of the macchi looked like it had a very reasonable poly count (better than some of the contest planes?) Looked great too.

TS

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dauntless851
Pilot
posted 04-11- 10:18 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for dauntless851   Click Here to Email dauntless851     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Tail, I think that Macchi weighed in at around 2500 polys and had a 512 x 512 texture map.

Isn't that warbirds contest to get one plane in WB3 and whatever other models there are have a chance to get in warbirds at a later time if at all? Is that how it goes?

If they trimmed the polys down they could get all of them into SDOE.

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JG5Jerry
Pilot
posted 04-11- 10:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for JG5Jerry   Click Here to Email JG5Jerry     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My Fw190 has far too many polys!

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C/O Jagdgeschwader 5 'Eismeer'

http://www.madasafish.com/jerry/jg5/

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Laika 801
Pilot
posted 04-11- 11:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Laika 801   Click Here to Email Laika 801     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I dont understand that - I dont believe that you need more than 1500 polys for a fighter plane with one engine. Maybe 1600 if the structure is extremly complicate (I dont know such a plane ). With 1500 polys it should look very very smooth. Just my thoughts (Pe is still below 1200 and look quiet smooth to me .

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Tailslide
Pilot
posted 04-11- 06:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tailslide   Click Here to Email Tailslide     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

The macchi I was looking at had less than 1000 polys. Maybe they've added to it since then.

TS

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JG5Jerry
Pilot
posted 04-13- 02:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for JG5Jerry   Click Here to Email JG5Jerry     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I agree with Laika. I also think that more than 800 polys for a single-engined plane is overkill unless your game engine can handle it. Laika's Pe-2 is a very good example of good low-poly work, IMHO.
As a comparison - the Hurricane model in EAW has 365 polys. Double that amount for an SDOE Hurri and I think you'd have a spot-on model. Of course, I'm not including the cockpit detail in the poly count - or should I, Laika? I'm not sure why SDOE planes need these to be shown in exterior views in game, apart from eye-candy reasons ...

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C/O Jagdgeschwader 5 'Eismeer'

http://www.madasafish.com/jerry/jg5/

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Spanky the Mad Dog
Pilot
posted 04-13- 01:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Spanky the Mad Dog   Click Here to Email Spanky the Mad Dog     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Spanky here..

Yes low poly can look good IMO.


That was my first attemp at the p40. 271 polys and I used WAY too many. And besides the cockpit and lack of detail I think it looks decent.

Its all a judgement call. I have asked many times for the amout of polys to shoot for on the high lod but no one every answers. I wish we had some guidelines.

THe Really high lod like on the p47 is great.

About seeing in the cockpit form the outside and in other planes. Yes it is just eye candy but don't forget that eye candy increases the level of emersion by 10 fold. I hate games that just fill in the glass on the cockpit. It looks crappy and I don't feel like i'm flying.

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JG5Jerry
Pilot
posted 04-14- 04:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for JG5Jerry   Click Here to Email JG5Jerry     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
As I said above Spanky, IMHO 800 polys for a fighter is more than enough. I also agree with you about the eye candy stuff, but if it then shags your frame-rate then it's counter-productive .

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Tailslide
Pilot
posted 04-14- 10:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tailslide   Click Here to Email Tailslide     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

You'll have alot more than 271 polys when you cut out the cockpit and add the gear, prop and control surfaces

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Laika 801
Pilot
posted 04-14- 11:41 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Laika 801   Click Here to Email Laika 801     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I only count the polys for the highest detail in normal flight (no gears, no inside etc) so dont count anything else JGJerry

The Pe is actually at about 1000 (without bombs). Thats pretty much, but the fuse got so many windows and 2 rudders and the engines wahahaa, I really dont know where I should weld some faces away ! Quad export? That didnt work tested it for all done parts and allways "leaks". WeŽll see what FPS-rates the beta will have.

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Tailslide
Pilot
posted 04-14- 11:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tailslide   Click Here to Email Tailslide     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

If you send me the max and .sm file I can see if I can get quad export working for you.

TS

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Spanky the Mad Dog
Pilot
posted 04-14- 02:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Spanky the Mad Dog   Click Here to Email Spanky the Mad Dog     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Spanky here..

Oh yeah for sure tail. But my point was is that fuse has WAY too many polys and it still isn't crazy. So it should come in well under 1000 with the gear in and even with it out since its not very elaberate gear.

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Bryan Russell
Pilot
posted 04-15- 07:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Bryan Russell   Click Here to Email Bryan Russell     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The "SDOE Hurricane" has around 1600 tri's, which would probably translate to around 850 quads if I used the new MAX2OBJ and maybe 600-700 or so real polys if the poly export could ever be made to work. Even at 1600 tirs I don't think the frame rate gets too much of a hit. It's about the same as most of the other fighters and maybe even a little better than some. It depends on what kind of machine you have too. I'm sure mine is bogging down with the physics and other stuff so actual poly detail doesn't have a huge effect. On a better system you might see more of a hit...

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Tailslide
Pilot
posted 04-15- 05:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tailslide   Click Here to Email Tailslide     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Spanky, you'll be surprised how much the poly count explodes once you start adding the canopy frame and all the little edge faces that go along with cutting out the control surfaces especially if you have 3d tail surfaces. I spent about two weeks doing nothing but going over every single poly on the yak getting it down to the count it is now, which is around 800.

TS

[This message has been edited by Tailslide (edited 04-15-2000).]

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