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Author	Topic: Shading part XIV
Tailslide Pilot	posted 03-07- 07:48 PM Doh I'm mostly done but for some reason the shading is different between my tail and body section... I tried the attach, weld, export without normals, import, detach, export with normals, import into OPS routine but it still looks funny. The shading on each part looks fine it just doesn't quite match.. I'm stuck TS ------------------ ________________________ TS Aircombat IP: Logged
Pang Pilot	posted 03-07- 08:21 PM Ditto! Better, but not perfect. Funny thing is that one build it (P80b) was nearly perfect, and after repositioning and recentering, it reverted to the funny shading. Pang IP: Logged
Bryan Russell Pilot	posted 03-07- 09:05 PM I would have thought you would have needed to do the smooth thing between the 'import' and 'detach' phases. IP: Logged
Tailslide Pilot	posted 03-08- 01:16 AM I tried everything including that Bryan.. I fixed all my other shading problems except this one. TS IP: Logged
Royohboy Pilot	posted 03-08- 01:17 AM If you working with 3dsmax make sure that in the map-rollout of your material <show map on back> and <premultiplied alpha> are unchecked. IP: Logged
Tailslide Pilot	posted 03-08- 01:26 AM They use the same map.. how would that make the shading different in the two pieces? By shading I mean lighsource effects not the actual texture map.. (thanks for the reply!) TS IP: Logged
Zoycite JAG	posted 03-08- 01:27 AM I know I dont use max, but I have some shading that wont act right also. After much stress, I finaly gave up. Nothing a little paint wont fix I hope..... ------------------ Zoycite 33rd~GS visit The War Paint Factory IP: Logged
Tailslide Pilot	posted 03-08- 02:16 AM I wonder if it has anything to do with the tail of my plane meeting in a single vertical edge? would this affect the shading in the middle of the plane? I could try detaching the halves of the fuselage and welding all the matching points except the rear edge.. TS IP: Logged
Yardstick Pilot	posted 03-08- 07:50 AM There was I getting all excited thinking you were refering to a Spitfire Mk XIV ------------------ Yardstick painted this IP: Logged
Sv Pilot	posted 03-08- 09:08 AM Are you talking about shading across seprate LODS? I am not sure this is what you are talking about, but this issue reminds me of a question: Is there any way to smooth shade across multiple LODS? If I have an inner and outer wing, I can never get the whole wing smooth, right? There will always be a "shading seam" between the parts. Is this true? ------------------ -Sv =FC= WWI in SDOE! IP: Logged
Tailslide Pilot	posted 03-08- 09:10 AM That's exactly what I'm talking about SV.. the method I use at the top (JT came up with it) gives seamless shading on all the other parts of my plane including the wings. Just these two stubborn ones left.. TS IP: Logged
JT Pilot	posted 03-08- 09:19 AM Tail, To a certain degree, this problem cannot be eliminated. Is it very noticeable even when you have texture on it? Perhaps the problem is something else... could you post a screenshot of it? IP: Logged
Tailslide Pilot	posted 03-08- 12:11 PM I'll try the tail-splitting idea then post screen shots if that doesn't work.. stay tuned. IP: Logged
Razer Pilot	posted 03-08- 12:12 PM I had a Spit XIV finished and ready to release but lost it when i formated the HDD Tail can you post an image of it or mail one to me so i can see how close the two planes would have been? ------------------ Tony "Razer" Martin http://www.fshangar.com IP: Logged
Tailslide Pilot	posted 03-08- 12:16 PM This is on my yak.. i just picked a number because I used to have so many shading questions I numbered my posts.. TS IP: Logged
Sv Pilot	posted 03-08- 12:25 PM How can this be? I thought smooth shading only worked across ploys that had shared verts? Is this not the case? If so, I need to make some updates before March 20th! -Sv IP: Logged
Tailslide Pilot	posted 03-08- 12:38 PM You need to make some updates IP: Logged
Tailslide Pilot	posted 03-10- 12:59 PM Fixed it.. it was a combination of a few things that I tried fixing seperately but they were all contributing to the problem. Part of it was I had the join between my two parts on a bend.. I cut the tail section on a flat part instead (and took a small poly hit) and saw a lot of improvement. TS IP: Logged
Sv Pilot	posted 03-10- 02:22 PM How can this be??? Please explain! How can you smooth shade across seperate LODS? Can vertices of seperate LODS be shared? I do not understand... -Sv IP: Logged
Tailslide Pilot	posted 03-10- 02:40 PM Take a look at the fw190 without any textures on it.. looks pretty smooth? I wasn't able to get mine quite that good I think because of the limitations of the .obj export, but basically what you want to do is set it up so you 1) have planar polys on either side of the 'break' between LODs 2) attach the two LODs and weld, apply smoothing to it as a single object so the normals on either side of the break are aligned 3) detatch the pieces after shading and export to OPS [This message has been edited by Tailslide (edited 03-10-2000).] IP: Logged
Laika 801 Pilot	posted 03-10- 02:49 PM Tailslide: But when I weld vertices my mapping coordinates are gone forever ! Does this mean I had to remap the parts (I wish you would say NO but I�m afraid it is so) ? I also downloaded the instruments from you but it seems only the names are changed. Did you updated that allready ? Its time for me to put some work into the main panel and btw the I16 is still far far away from an final release (with all the experiences I made (when I solved one problem there are two new ahead...) it could take 4 to 6 weeks again). IP: Logged
Tailslide Pilot	posted 03-10- 03:03 PM Laika, when I weld and detach I keep the mapping coords in 3dsmax are you using ac3d? My notes may only apply to going from max to opstudio. I have made a turn/bank texture, the speedometer texture and the altimiter texture so do those last.. I'll put together a new version of the instrument panel textures this weekend. Please send me any updated guage textures if you update them.. TS IP: Logged
Sv Pilot	posted 03-11- 10:14 PM I think I see where you are going with this TS... But do you think it is the planer relation between the two joining polys, or smooth shading across LODS then breaking them up after. My understanding is that smooth shading requires shared verts. So I still don't 100% get it yet. My SE5a inner/outer wing join has a shading seam in it. It would be cool for me to fix this. Does anyone know how to relate what TS is saying to AC3D? Thanks TS, -Sv IP: Logged
Tailslide Pilot	posted 03-12- 01:29 PM SV, It's both... I tried each seperately and they each helped both I had to do both before the problem (mostly) went away. TS IP: Logged
Bryan Russell Pilot	posted 03-12- 06:16 PM Re the Planer thing, most smoothing algorithms need to have a angle threshold so it can determine what is meant to be an edge and what is a curve. You can crank this up in MAX, default is about 35 deg. Problem is that is you crank it up too high you get some artifacts on the more planer edges. There seems to be a big difference between what you see in MAX and what you get out of the OBJ2MAX plugin. I've seen edges in MAX and seen them get smoothed in MAX but this hasn't translated to smoothed edges in SDOE. There maybe something to do with OPS. A while ago, to get rid of the dark patch shading problem, I added a bit to OPS that normalised all of the normals (most where more than normal length) perhaps this is part of the cause. I'll experiment and see if I can fique something out. Maybe the fact that OBJ2MAX is producing non-normal normals indicates soem sort of problem with OBJ2MAX? For the moment I'm just living with my shading problems... IP: Logged
Tailslide Pilot	posted 03-12- 06:26 PM Ya, not sure the reason for it just from experience I'd say having parts of your airplane join at a bend is "bad". The original planes avoid this too. Check out the typhoon's wing. TS ------------------ ________________________ TS Aircombat IP: Logged
Bryan Russell Pilot	posted 03-12- 07:18 PM Actually that probably makes sense if you want shading to work across the join, since the normal for the edge of each join is going to be perpendicular to the poly at the edge. IP: Logged

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