|
Author
|
Topic: AC3D clueless newbie needs hand holding!
|
Elric
Pilot
|
posted 02-06- 09:04 AM
   
Ok, I have some 1/72 scale plans of some planes that I would like to turn into aircraft. My problem is importing the scanned image into AC3D... I've read Sv's openplane notes and learn't that 100 pixels = 1ft in Ac3d, so I also worked out that 1/72 scale scanned at 600dpi will produce an image that is approx 100 pixels to 1ft.So this is what I'm doing : 1. Aquire the image in PSP 6 at 600 dpi ( 2 colours)
2. Save as BMP
3. In AC3D choose View -> Background Image -> Set whatever and select my .BMP. Ac3d then tries to load the image into the viewport. It thrashes the disk swapping out until I run out memory... <sigh> This isn't right, I've got 128Mb ram and a 275Mb Swapfile. I'm using windows 98 SE and AC3D 2.5 Beta 7 I've tried using a gif but the same thing happens... Hope you can help, Elric IP: Logged |
Spanky the Mad Dog
Pilot
|
posted 02-06- 09:24 AM
Wacky
I only had 64 megs a while ago and 150 megs of virtual ram and i never had a problem. It took a while but it would load.
IP: Logged |
Ronin
Pilot
|
posted 02-06- 09:47 AM
Elric:
I'm learning myself but here's what I do...1) I edit my scanned images and erase anything (including pixel trash) that isn't the scanned drawing before I save the image. 2) You won't be editing your whole aircraft in AC3D at the same time. You'll be editing just one (or two) lod(s) at a time. For instance editing the rudder. So save your "whole aircraft" plan file set to the corrent pixels per foot. Next crop away everything that isn't the rudder (and maybe a portion of the connecting surface to help orient your perspective). Now save and load rudder plan into AC3D. This will take dramatically less ram and the image your editing will always be in the center of your edit screen which will help in zoom operations. BTW - I'm running 32meg Ram ------------------
Ronin's current project...
Nieport 17c.1 [This message has been edited by Ronin (edited 02-06-2000).] IP: Logged |
Sv
Pilot
|
posted 02-06- 11:00 AM
That is correct Ronin,Also try using a .gif image instead - optimize your drawing to use the least color choices as you can. This will help the .bmp files as well I think. I have 128 megs mem. and it still takes a while for me - not the best solution but at least it works! Hey Ronin, nice signature picture!!! Glad to see you working on that. Let me know if there is anything you need 
------------------
-Sv =FC=
WWI in SDOE!
IP: Logged |
Elric
Pilot
|
posted 02-06- 11:27 AM
Hmmm, I negelected to mention I was trying to load in an image aprox 3000 X 9000 pixels, I see from the above replies that this is common behaviour... I successfully loaded in fuselage cross sections, they were 2300 X 1800. I really need to load in the whole image as it is a side view, I want to make a fuse and the aircraft was 87ft long in real-life. I think I'll try scaling the image down to 10% of the orginal size, making the fuse and rescaling once done... Can you guess what I want to make? Elric IP: Logged |
Elric
Pilot
|
posted 02-06- 05:02 PM
Hooray! I have a basic fuselage, I tried scaling everything down but it didn't work, my background image wasn't to scale, maybe I'll try mapping the re-scaled bg image and resizing the mapped poly in future, I'd be interested to see if this was feasible... In the end I took a ruler to my plans and lined up the cross sections approximately but the result looks cool. Just have to do the nose section now ( complicated ) and then I'll 10% of the way there... p.s. Is there a way to align snap vertices/ object together but only in one plane? Elric IP: Logged |
Sv
Pilot
|
posted 02-06- 07:27 PM
You should be able to make the background image 100 times smaller -than build your LOD, then use the scale tool and scale 10000% on each axis.You can snap vertecies in any ortho view, but there is no magic trick to geting the vertecies that you want to snap selected. Just select them in one view, then unselect the ones you don't want in another view. The biggest trick to using AC3D is in using hide and unhide -Sv IP: Logged |
Elric
Pilot
|
posted 02-06- 08:05 PM
Thanks Sv and RoninNext question, I've got my Tail fuse done and I did a basic front fuse, I've been slaving away and created about six former polys for the nose and cockpit area, ultimately I want to cutaway some surfaces and leave a hole for the cockpit, I'm digressing (sp?) here... I select all my former vertices, merge, and create surface, but it misses out some vertices! As far as I can tell there's no logic to it, two vertices on one poly, one vertice on another ? what's going on? I looked at the poly's again and saw two of the poly's had the wrong vertex order, after correcting this I still got the same problem... Weird... Any clues? Elric IP: Logged |
Sv
Pilot
|
posted 02-07- 06:08 AM
How exactly did you create your former polys?Also I have found that it may be best to combine "create surface object" and extrusion to create the fuse. Maybe like this: Lets say the the first 1/4 of the fuse is the same basic shape that just tapers. Create that using an extruded poly former. Now lets say the mid area has some complicated shapes. Copy and past the former that this area starts with - then hide the front fuse - now paste that former in - it will be exatly where you coppied it form. Now add the complicated formers. Now create convex hull (create surface object). Now unhide all. Merge the two objects. Now optimize verts. Done! This will make a good looking fuselege with much less polys needed! You can save these polys here nad make your plane look better elsewhere, or get better FPS! -Sv IP: Logged |
Elric
Pilot
|
posted 02-07- 08:01 AM
Sv, I'm creating the former polys by create-surface, duplicate and re-size, the complex shape around the canopy ( it's not your standard hole etc ) is giving me the problems. I wonder if it's because the convex hull does only that - i.e. convex, some of the vertices would make it concave in places...I didn't use extrude as the nose itself isn't straightforward. Maybe I should've started with a fighter but hell, I've always loved bombers and once the fuse canopy and gear are done, that'll be half the battle. As for FPS the fuse as is stands at 197 polys, what's the target for a large bomber? This 3D modelling thing is both addictive and time consuming... I haven't a clue how I'll make the canopy(s) Elric ~having fun...
IP: Logged |
Pachy
Pilot
|
posted 02-07- 09:18 AM
Elric: the "create surface" function will only work with convex sections. IE if you have a fuselage section like that (dunno if this ASCII art will work):
___
/ \
| |
|___|and a non-convex like that: /\_/\
| |
|___| and try to perform a "create surface" between them, it will fail.
IP: Logged |
Pachy
Pilot
|
posted 02-07- 09:19 AM
DOH!!! a graphical explanation would've been better...IP: Logged |
Sv
Pilot
|
posted 02-07- 09:24 AM
To make a former, DO NOT use the create-surface. Instead, just clcik each vertex using the poly tool like dot-to-dot. This makes a nice poly - the create surface can put the vertecies in bad order and make more surfaces than you want.You are right, the convex hull will always be convex, never concave. The best use for this tool is in joining to polys. Lets see cross-section A uses poly A and cross-section B used poly B. Each poly has a different shape - most often one is round and one is square or something. Make a convex hull around these two polys, then be sure to select each former poly and chose "remove surfaces only" so you don't have the flat former as a surface or surfaces. On my new Fokker DVIII for example, the front former is round, and the next former is a box with a rounded header at the top - I will use the convex hull to make the transition ploys from one former to the next. What you should not due is make every former and then just convex the whole thing - this will use to many polys and does not allow for complicated concave areas. The big trick to 3D modeling from what I have seen is "divide and conquer!" Do sections at a time, planing on what verticies they will be joined to the next section. If you can, extrusion always works best. Extrude one former, then resize the new formers as needed. It gets more fun as you get useed to it. I like it more every day - I had no clue when I started, and now I have a couple of clues. But the mystery is yet to be solved...  -Sv IP: Logged |
Elric
Pilot
|
posted 02-07- 04:28 PM
Thanks Sv and Pachy, I get the idea, I've tried doing the main fuse in three stages, the nose, cockpit area and the stuff behind, I've now got a nice cut-out where the canopy will go but since I used create surface on each section and merged the three objects and smoothed, I can see the seams of the objects (argh!) It was nicely smoothed all over when I did convex hull on the whole thing. I think I'll live with it for now and try something easier (like the wings and tailplane) for now. The canopies can wait... I might post a picture once I've made a little more progress... Elric IP: Logged |
Sv
Pilot
|
posted 02-07- 08:46 PM
If you see seems, try selecting the verts you think should be shared, then choose "snap verts together." Now re-optimize verts. Now re-smooth. Did this fix it?-Sv [This message has been edited by Sv (edited 02-07-2000).] IP: Logged |
Elric
Pilot
|
posted 02-08- 12:51 PM
Thanks Sv, that fixed the problem! Your help and notes are invaluable!Elric IP: Logged |
Elric
Pilot
|
posted 02-08- 11:02 PM
Ok, now I've got quite a few lods, how do I center each lod? I mean set the object's orgin and physically center it on the axis.What do people do for positioning using AC3D & OPS etc, I've tried part postioning in OPS and it's a nightmare. I haven't looked at Hippie's Beta pulgins closely... Oh yeah, can I smooth across objects so the seems don't show or is that simply a matter of snapping shared vertices? Elric IP: Logged |
Spanky the Mad Dog
Pilot
|
posted 02-09- 05:45 AM
Spanky here... SV if you have the time can you update your page with this new way of making a fuse? The way you describe it on there is the way you say to avoid now that you have done more modeling.
IP: Logged |
Sv
Pilot
|
posted 02-09- 05:59 AM
Elric,I always center each LOD before I export. When the object is highlighted you will see green handles at the center of the bounding box lines - center these on the axis line. Also I always export LODS level to an axis - never skewed or rotated. This can make positiong in OPS easier. Why is positioning in OPS hard? I have heard this before... I have never had even a slight difficulty. Compared with texturing in AC3D, positioning in OPS is a breeze! What can't you position? Smoothing across objects is a good question. I assume this can not be done. If this can be done, someone let me know! Since smoothing relies on shared verts you can never smooth across seperate LODS. But maybe purposely NOT smoothng certain polys will hide the seem better. You probably mean like the seem between the inner wing and the outer wing? This is a good question... I don't know... Spanky, I would like to post my new 3D tricks - I bet these are as bad as my originals though relatively speaking. It seems just I as post one way, I fugure out the right way to do it LOL. I don't like to focus on 3D editing because I am so bad at it - I would like to see a real 3D guy post some methods. Maybe AC3D is its own world though... so maybe what I know is AC3D and not 3D editing If I can get my bloody prop set up on the Albatros I plan on posting an FM set-up step by step - just to help people get started who have never fooled with FM/DM before. I will do this before I post any new 3D documentation. Also this terrain stuff looks to be very fun. So many cool things.. so little time  -Sv IP: Logged |
Elric
Pilot
|
posted 02-09- 07:03 AM
Sv, Thanks for the info, I just wondered if there was an easier way to do it than moving it. I must admit I haven't tried positioning in OPS since the first version, and if I can limit movement by axis it should be ok. I made a wing, flaps and ailerons last night using the extrude tool on an airfoil section - it was so easy and the result is excellent! Thanks again, Elric p.s. Sv, any chance of a cockpit / canopy tutorial or have you done one already?
IP: Logged |
Spanky the Mad Dog
Pilot
|
posted 02-09- 07:04 AM
SPanky here... yeah i would love to see some of the masters show us how they do it too but they havn;t been i guess that leaves it up to u!! heehe
sorry
IP: Logged |
FSIC Messageboard
UBBFriend: Email This Page to Someone! 
