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Author Topic:   next roadblock, textures
Falck
Pilot
posted 01-30- 12:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Falck     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
OK. I have this idea in my head that for the F4F I should use 2 or 3 256x256 textures for the F4F. One for the normal, one for damage, and one for the cockpit. Would this be better than having one 256 and many smaller textures as it is now? The damage tif would be similar to the normal tif. I'd like to try to paint transparent wings/fins/fuselage on it to map over a part upon it taking damage. I'd also put the miscellaneous damage art on here, such as the interiors of the fuselage and wings for when they get blown off. This tif wouldnt have to change for each separate skin if I put bulletholes on a transparent background correct? I switched from two sided poly's to a bulkhead at the section joints, I think this can be painted more realistically and possibly save some polygons. SV, Yardstick, anyone... is this a reasonable way to go about this?

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Sv
Pilot
posted 01-30- 02:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Sv   Click Here to Email Sv     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I wonder these things myself...

How much is texture memory an issue?

Don't forget that the only ways to show damage are 1) unhide a hidden model (LOD) or 2) replace an exsiting model with another model that shows damage.

Replacing is cool because you can not only change the texture, but the 3D model can change.

If a texture is only refered to by unused models, is it loaded into memory? Or is it loaded when the model replacement happens?

Using transparent textured LODS to show bullet holes sounds very cool, but the trade off is: now you can use a couple of small textures to cover many holes on the plane but: now you have more models. If hidden models do not affect performance then it sounds like a very good idea indeed.

Getting bullet holes aligned will be slightly painful, but not too bad. Bedore I new how to texture map I mad the English insignia on my SE5a out of an "insignia" LOD LoL - a transparent texture. It worked but I had trouble blending it with its surroundings...

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-Sv =FC=

WWI in SDOE!


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Falck
Pilot
posted 01-30- 02:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Falck     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
AH ok
I was under the impression that I could simply change a texture reference. So now I will have to replace an entire lod, it becomes more of a problem. If the painters dont want to have to paint the entire lod twice, once for normal, and once for the shot up look, Ill have to unhide an entire transparent lod over top of the existing one. Thats probably not worth it. I assume polygons take just as high of a toll on the graphics engine if they are transparent? I guess Ill have to put that idea on the back burner. I would really like to have some WWII Fighers-esque bulletholes displayed. I guess now I can see why no one has tried this yet except for canopies. I stil plan to try using only 3 main textures. One of my goals with the F4F is to have it be one of the most FPS-friendly aircraft in SDOE. Im trying my hardest not to exceed 600-700 polys. I do find, however, if I try to replace a two-triangle polygon by stretching a new 1x1 mesh to its vertices in AC3D, that the smooth shading is usually lost. If that weren't the case then I think 400 would be a more realistic number.

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Yardstick
Pilot
posted 01-30- 02:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Yardstick   Click Here to Email Yardstick     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'd say that texture memory is up there with poly-count as far as performance is concerned. Alpha textures in particular are real FPS killers, so use them judiciously.

On size of the textures, MPosis and myself have tried to keep the paint scheme textures down to no more than 1 full 256x256 texture and never more than half of another texture of similar size. I would be wary of overdoing it, particularly as the F4F is a relatively small plane and you don't have to chase resolution.

The cockpits 109 and Zero cockpits are 2 256x256 textures plus instruments at 64x64 a time and small miscellaneous textures for cockpit walls and frames. Reflections should also be kept down in size as much as possible.

You can see how it all adds up very quickly. The general rule of thumb is that if you can use a smaller texture without impinging significantly on image quality, do so.

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Yardstick painted this

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JT
Pilot
posted 01-30- 03:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for JT   Click Here to Email JT     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I would say keep it at under 1 MB of texture for the whole plane inside and out. Most of the default fighters in SDOE use 500 to 800K and the bombers seem to use a little over 1 MB. It's hard to tell exactly since the planes share a lot of textures for certain generic parts like wheels or gauges.

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Sv
Pilot
posted 01-30- 04:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Sv   Click Here to Email Sv     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Falck,

Its not that bad! I think you should do it. Here's how (just like the Fokker)

Do your plane like normal, 1 256x256 texture. Now duplicate that texture and call it textureDmg or whatever. Now just make that one texture map look all damaged - it takes minutes. Now here is how you do the replacement:

Reference an SM file called yourplaneDmg.sm. This should contain all models at root level with no DOFS or prop lists at all, just models. You can use the FokkerDmg.sm as a starting place, or the Se5aDmg.sm for that matter. Just delete all the objects out first or something.

Anyway, start by taking a model, let's say the "LeftWing." Copy and paste that model from your plane to the yourPlaneDmg.sm file. Now change the model name to "LeftWingDmg." Now extract the yourplaneDmg file using Hippie's extractor. Now change all of the texture ID's in that LOD to point to the new yourplaneDmg.tif file. Also be sure to add the yourplaneDmg.tif to the yourplaneDmg.asc file of course.

Now on yourplane.sm you can put a proplist on the "LeftWing" that is like (onDmg 10 (models 'LeftWingDmg)) - this will replace the current wing with the damaged one at that point. Cool.

The real neat part of all this is 1) you need not do any 3D modeling, and 2) you need not do any more texturing!

The painters will love it, they just finish their job, copy the skin into the skinDmg.tif file, and then shoot ot to pieces LOL!

Do it! It works great, especialy if you like damage.

-Sv

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Spanky the Mad Dog
Pilot
posted 01-30- 05:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Spanky the Mad Dog   Click Here to Email Spanky the Mad Dog     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Spanky here...

Yeah we need to make it so a Skin comes with a damaged skin also and get this on every plane. I think it looks great seeing the damage show up as you hit sections of the plane.

Don't make it too different though so it doesn't POP up.

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Tailslide
Pilot
posted 01-30- 11:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tailslide   Click Here to Email Tailslide     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

I'm tired of seeing blocky flack on a 32 meg video card, I prefer one 256x256 tile.

TS

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