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Author
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Topic: Attention programmers!
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Sv
Pilot
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posted 01-27- 06:01 AM
   
Ok. I want to make a new graphical airFoil editing program for OpenPlane that works more the way I want it to and have some cool preset "filters," etc. My problem is that I have never read/writen binary files.Can someone who knows how to do this either 1) explain it to me if it is simple and I will do it myself, or 2) write a simple import/export file that reads the airfoil.sm file and converts it to and from an .asc file like Hippie's builder/extractor? I want to write my ap in VB, I can do everything I need to do so long as I can read/write the airfoil data as described in the OpenPlane doc - as numbers instead of ones and zeros! Some ideas I want to put it: 1. Drag on any point on the graph to position it. 2. Select multiple points to move whole drag around whole areas of the graph. 3. Let you enter the the stats for your wing and have the app give you real lift forces based on a supplied airspeed and AOA. Maybe - this would just help fine tune some areas... 4. Add some filters in the future to let you auto-estimate the trailing edge up/dowm graphs based on the normal graph. Maybe one to simply increase over-all drag. Maybe and Auto-speed bleed in turns function, etc. This could be used as starting points - giving us more time on tweeking the results instead of re-creating the same starting point often. Just some ideas... Can anyone out there help me with the binary aspect of this? Thanks! ------------------
-Sv =FC=
WWI in SDOE!
IP: Logged |
Pachy
Pilot
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posted 01-27- 06:43 AM
The existing graphical airfoil editor comes with C++ (Borland, I think) source code. I'll have a look at it.------------------
Pachy's SDOE stuff
perso.club-internet.fr/gledimet
IP: Logged |
Michael Harrison
General
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posted 01-27- 07:52 AM
If you decide to start your own, I highly recommend that you use Fox for your application framework.It's what we're using on our current project and it comes with several OpenGL widgets which will save you some programming time. Fox is open source and compiles on many different systems. There is an active group of people (us included) who are constantly providing feedback and fixes to the author.
http://www.cfdrc.co/FOX/fox.html IP: Logged |
Raider
Pilot
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posted 01-27- 09:06 AM
SV, you never cease to amaze me. A program like this would be very useful.Michael, Do you have any tools that we might be able to use for this? IP: Logged |
Sv
Pilot
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posted 01-27- 09:41 AM
Cool, but can this be utilized in a VB environment? It does mention contols, are these the active-x type?I am not a C++ guy - I only use VB and then almost only for database work. -Sv IP: Logged |
Falck
Pilot
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posted 01-27- 09:45 AM
Im a lamer who only knows console-app c++ and Java 
Java would probably work well for this, its good for GUI's. todoList.add(new Task(new JavaAirfoilEditor())) [This message has been edited by Falck (edited 01-27-2000).] IP: Logged |
Tailslide
Pilot
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posted 01-27- 11:05 AM
Yes it's badly needed... A great solution would be to have an Excel macro to import and export the .ppf text flavour of the airfoil files. Then you can graph them or manipulate them however you want. Maybe an importer/exporter for a free spreadsheet too for those who don't have excel. If you write an app instead please make sure it can import comma delimited files though ! TS
IP: Logged |
Tailslide
Pilot
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posted 01-27- 12:52 PM
[This message has been edited by Tailslide (edited 01-27-2000).] IP: Logged |
Whirlwind
Pilot
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posted 01-27- 03:25 PM
Didn't Bryan post a link the the .sm C++ header files and stuff somewhere?IP: Logged |
Pachy
Pilot
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posted 01-27- 03:41 PM
My problem is Etienne's WingExtractor source is incomplete. The .DFM files are missing. So it does not compile in BCB3. I can either try to rebuild the DFM's, or extract the data manipulation functions and make them spit a CSV file. What do you think?------------------
Pachy's SDOE stuff
perso.club-internet.fr/gledimet
IP: Logged |
Sv
Pilot
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posted 01-27- 06:49 PM
Pachy,Go for the CSV file! That way others can easily create their own apps off of the data If we could get the airfoil sm file -> CSV and CSV -> airfoil sm file that would be great. Also an option to change the names - make these part of the header or something... -Sv IP: Logged |
Pachy
Pilot
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posted 01-29- 06:48 PM
Sv,OK it's 2AM here and importing/exporting to CSV seems to work. The modified SM's don't seem to crash SDOE... at least it worked ONCE! Eh eh! I was thinking of the better way to incorporate it in excel, probably as an ActiveX control so you could call it from VB. Going to bed now. Cheers! ------------------
Pachy's SDOE stuff
perso.club-internet.fr/gledimet
IP: Logged |
DanW
Pilot
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posted 01-29- 06:54 PM
Falck,your forgot the ; IP: Logged |
Tailslide
Pilot
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posted 01-29- 07:36 PM
Pachy, I have a multipage graphing spreadsheet setup in Excel that I used to analyze some of the airfoils. I can send it to you if it'd be helpful. TS
IP: Logged |
Sv
Pilot
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posted 01-29- 09:19 PM
Cool Pachy!Just being able to import/export CSV -> SM via a DOS command would be great for what I wanted to do (I would call it from my VB app)... but maybe excel is a better choice? I am just better at VB -Sv IP: Logged |
Kite
Pilot
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posted 01-29- 10:36 PM
From my experience, this would be a good candidate for VB. Unless you are a full-time programmer, doing in C++ can be overwheliming in the Windows environment. Excell is OK to analyse data, but not to create a somewhat user-friendly tool. VB allows you to easely create a pretty good application with a user-friendly interface. Just what you need for what you want to do. At one time, I considered writing a VB editor for airfoils (when I was evaluating the lack-off stall characteristics of the original FS airfoils with Tailslide). But I am just too busy (job + family + we live on a 5 acres farm with animals!!). I am an analog IC designer and I use VB on the job extensively to write test programs.IP: Logged |
Tailslide
Pilot
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posted 01-30- 04:41 AM
With Excel I have graphs of the up/down/normal airfoils, ability to import .csv from airfoil analyzers, I can click on points in the graph and drag them to modify values. For taking tables of data graphing them, and modifying the values Excel is very friendly. Everything I need is already there except a way to get the data back into SDOE (the .csv converter should help a lot but someday I'll write a macro to go to the text based .ppf airfoil format). The only drawback is someone needs Excel to use it.. TS [This message has been edited by Tailslide (edited 01-30-2000).] IP: Logged |
Sv
Pilot
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posted 01-30- 07:17 AM
What is this text based .ppf airfoil format???? Does that work? Does anyone have an example?If we can do thaty then who needs a CSV extractor/builder? Oh, unless we need to get the original airfoil data into the text format... Hmmmm.. MH? Can you convert this for us? Or does someoone here almost have a airfoil.sm -> CSV _> airfoil.sm conversion app done? I will write a VB app if I can get the data to and from the binary file somehow. Or just explain to me how to use VB to read/write this binary file? I know you cna do that, I just do not understand the layout of a binary file (how it is read/etc.) Thanks, -Sv IP: Logged |
Kite
Pilot
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posted 01-30- 10:24 AM
I know that MH had an ASCII version of the airfoil files. Maybe he has a conversion utility. Anyway, reading binary files is not all that hard. At work, I just had a chance to write code to read a Bitmap file. I can provide a code example, or maybe, we can divide up the work, and I could write the functions to read / write the airfoil files. It is not so hard, these files are not so complex. Let me know if this a good idea. Maybe dividing up the work into some clearly defined functions is a good way to get the job done!! If you have some good ideas about the program functionnality and user interface, you may not want to bogged down by figuring out binary file access fubctions.IP: Logged |
Sv
Pilot
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posted 01-30- 10:55 AM
Sounds cool Kite!Yea, if you start of a function to read the SM file into some sort of VB data type - what meakes sense? Let's see, we have 3 tables, right? Normal airfoil, upAirfoil, and downAirfoil. Each table has 6 variables I think, lift coef, drag coeg, moment coef, and there are three others that no-one knows what they do (or they have not spoke up yet)
Each variable has a value for each of the 360 degrees I think. So maybe we could have an airfoil object that has 6 chart objects - each representing a coef. There would be 3 airfoil objects, one for the normal, and 2 for the up/down trailing edge airfoils. Each chart object would just be an array of 360 coef values where the index represents the AOA. There will also be a couple of properties at the airfoil level to manage the airfoil names, etc. So you would make two functions: 1 to read the SM file into the 3 airfoil objects, and 1 to write the 3 airfoil objects into the SM file. I will make functions that update the object to reflect the user's updates. If we look at the airfoil layout and what I said above makes sense, we could start writing at the same time. I will just populate the 3 airfoil objects with dummy data while you work on your part. How does this sound? Also anyone who understands the airfoil updating process (Tailslide? Pang? MH?, etc.) please let me know what features to include. For starters I will at least get it working so you can drag points on the chart around. Then from there we can go nuts -Sv [This message has been edited by Sv (edited 01-30-2000).] IP: Logged |
Pachy
Pilot
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posted 01-30- 11:56 AM
struct Foil {
double alpha;
double coefficient[6];
};struct FoilData{
int size;
Foil *data;
}; class PAirfoilData{
private:
EBinaryEdit *DataFile;
short int ProfileName;
double LoadValue();
void SaveValue(double _value);
void LoadAirfoils();
void SaveAirfoils(); public:
FoilData nFoil;
FoilData uFoil;
FoilData dFoil; PAirfoilData();
~PAirfoilData(); void reset();
int loadFile(AnsiString _filename);
int saveFile(AnsiString _filename);
}; http://perso.club-internet.fr/gledimet/PEdit.zip IP: Logged |
Sv
Pilot
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posted 01-30- 09:14 PM
Cool! That C++ makes me dizzy LOL I ran it, it worked good. The CSV does not contain the airfoil name though, so there is no way to change the airfoil name  Any future plans for this App? This is cool! What is the best direction to go from here? -Sv IP: Logged |
Kite
Pilot
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posted 01-30- 11:07 PM
This look good, OK to import in Excel, but not yet a real practical editor. I think it would be better to create a real user-friendly editor in VB. We could even add some inputs for some of the plane characterstics and calculate some the aircraft performance basewd on the airfoil.
For the arrays: thay will have to be dynamically allocated. The data is stored for various angles of attacks and not necessarily a fixed array (I know since I modified some early airfoil files to get the planes to spin). In the stall area, we can actually reduce the number the data points, as long as we create a good stall characteristic. Get some info from Tailslide on how to do this. Anyway, we should dynamically allocate the arrays.IP: Logged |
Sv
Pilot
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posted 01-30- 11:17 PM
Sounds good Kite. Really? Not all AOA's are there? Does SDOE interpolate values between AOA's?Anyway, however works best. Maybe a collection of Coef objects, where the Coef object has a property for the angle and one for the coef value. Or maybe the full array with a special value for the AOA's that have a NULL value? Then we can use these as placeholders if the user adds a new point on the curve... We could also more easily interpolate values ourselves for any fancy predicting calcs or anything... Well however... This is cool. -Sv IP: Logged |
Tailslide
Pilot
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posted 01-30- 11:44 PM
Take a look at the airfoils in the latest plane pack.. I think Zur converted some of them to the text format. It's a very simple format but we have no tools that work with it at present.
TS
IP: Logged |
Tailslide
Pilot
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posted 01-30- 11:48 PM
Kite's right you want lots of data points right at the point of stall since any jaggy-ness in the graph is very noticeable. Anywhere else you don't need alot of points. Usually what you would be doing is importing a bunch of data in .CSV format from something like CFL3D. I don't think I would be doing alot of mucking about by hand unless the NASA guys don't know what they're doing.. TS
IP: Logged |
Pachy
Pilot
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posted 01-31- 01:18 AM
Aaah the beauty of C++  Etienne's code did not read the name properties. I'll have a look at the OP doc.
Now you've played with it, what's your opinion? Do you prefer editing this data in your favorite spreadsheet (in this case all that is needed is some way to make this import/export process available from an Excel macro), or do you perfer an all-in-one editor, just like Etienne's? Well, if so, why not use Etienne's? Please tell me what you think ------------------
Pachy's SDOE stuff
perso.club-internet.fr/gledimet
IP: Logged |
Tailslide
Pilot
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posted 01-31- 01:53 AM
The text airfoil format is easier to deal with and easier to rename. I actually have to go in with a hex editor to rename the current .sm airfoils. Unfortunately, Etienne's software doesn't work with the text airfoil format. I assume with your software it's possible to export to .csv, and then import the airfoils under a different name? If so we could use your utility to rename the airfoils and import data, and etienne's utility to view the airfoils. TS IP: Logged |
Kite
Pilot
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posted 02-01- 07:29 PM
OK. I have been looking at the file formats. IMHO it is much easier to read the .sm file with a c++ program and then write into a text file easely read by VB. C++ excels at reading files and manipulating strings, which can be quite cumbersome in VB. On the other end, VB would allow us to quickly generate a user-friendly interface, with a lot of editing. displays etc... That is where VB shines. I noticed that the c++ guys are very quick to read the .sm files, but no quick at geberating a full application with proper UI. I think we need a simple c++ (dos!?) program to translate the files, then a VB app to edit them. But we need to get the full format of the aifoil files. Also, MH has the airfoil files in text form. Maybe this code already exists?
IP: Logged |
Falck
Pilot
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posted 02-01- 08:35 PM
Kite you could go with Java which is rather similar to C++ but still excellent for generating GUI's. ZeroG even makes an installer maker that includes a virtual machine so you dont have to worry about setting up everything. In theory the conversion from a C++ class to a java class shouldnt be too difficult.[This message has been edited by Falck (edited 02-01-2000).] IP: Logged |
Sv
Pilot
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posted 02-02- 05:42 AM
I agree kite.Someone give me a C++ app that I can call via a DOS command from within a VB app, and I will start making an airfoil editor. It should be able to go to and from airfoil.sm -> CSV. Sound like a good idea? Thi file should be like the one you have being created Pachy, but needs the airfoil names in it as well so we can change the name. Does this make sense? -Sv IP: Logged |
Tailslide
Pilot
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posted 02-02- 11:12 AM
You can just load the .sm files into notepad and convert them to .ppf by copying and pasting into a text file, thats how Zur did it anyways.Here's an example of a .ppf airfoil. It works just the same as a .sm file but it's easier to deal with (except for the fact etienne's editor doesn't load them). TS --
Parsoft Property File
(
obData 'P51foil (
dataRowSize 7 dataRows
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0 0.13469 0.01225 0.02810 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000
4 0.56005 0.01482 0.02822 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000
6 0.76593 0.01767 0.02770 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000
8 0.96045 0.02186 0.02611 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000
9 1.05090 0.02455 0.02473 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000
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11 1.20860 0.03148 0.02024 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000
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13 1.31290 0.04198 0.01359 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000
14 1.33010 0.04997 0.01023 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000
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16 1.01094 0.10980 0.02535 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000
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179 -0.15446 0.01496 0.05483 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000
180 -0.06060 0.01487 0.00716 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000
)) (
obData 'P51foilup (
dataRowSize 7 dataRows
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-168 0.72284 0.02960 -0.29908 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000
-140 0.20000 0.36000 -0.40000 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000
-90 0.00000 3.60000 -0.50000 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000
-30 -0.30000 1.00000 -0.30000 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000
-8 -1.31671 0.25255 -0.21942 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000
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0 -1.44410 0.08187 -0.24906 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000
4 -1.08140 0.07121 -0.25889 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000
6 -0.88724 0.06658 -0.26019 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000
8 -0.68399 0.06228 -0.25867 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000
9 -0.57856 0.06026 -0.25669 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000
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152 -0.42389 0.59474 0.31486 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000
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)) (
obData 'P51foildn (
dataRowSize 7 dataRows
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0 1.62200 0.09400 0.29642 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000
4 1.92700 0.10744 0.27613 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000
6 2.05270 0.11623 0.26183 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000
8 2.12280 0.12979 0.24105 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000
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180 -0.25435 0.09929 0.00977 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000
))
IP: Logged |
Sv
Pilot
|
posted 02-02- 01:18 PM
What are all the zeros? These are the three coefs that I don't know what they are used for.... anyone?-Sv IP: Logged |
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