posted 11-25- 08:19 PM               

SDOE's Ships and Tanks and Trucks are much better (some are even drivable).

SDOE looks better on my Voodoo5.

HiRez SDOE Plane Skins are better.

SDOE Gunners are more realistic.

And of course, SDOE has a lot more flyable planes that are generally outragously cool. Even jets and Luftwaffe '46 planes.

Also, I am not tired of Europe and the Channel. The lands east of Bertlin aren't that interesting to me.

-----------------------------

IL2 bullets make a wierd laser sound. From experince, a supersonic round makes a cracking sound, followed by a quick soft shushing sound, as it passes by. Not a laser sound.

IL2 overuses lighting effects, giving the game a glossy-cartoony impact.

I've never flown a WWII aircraft, but the planes in IL2 seem underpowered at sea level...they barely have the energy to leave the ground?

What I like about IL2:
Ships move.
The Wide-Screen view (PageDown).
Trees.

posted 11-25- 09:28 PM               

I think Oleg and team made a choice and they choose to spend polys on more planes instead of on a couple planes.

Yes it has higher requirments but it also has advanced weather and lighting. The clouds and terrain mapping also look better.

I do wish it wasn't so flat though, at least its rolling terrain though unlike some of the older FLAT terrains in sims.

About gunners, have you tried the full version or just the demo? Argon was saying there was a difference.

Yep more flyable planes, more openness for cool stuff like Helis and Luft46 which I love.

IL-2 however will have solid consistant online play where you can learn a plane and not have it change in the next plane pack. In my mind SDOE online isn't super popular because of its in consistances.

I am tired of europe and have lots of interest in the eastern front. Read some books about it and it migt peak your interest. I find it an opertunity to start researching some of the russian planes.

IL-2s bullet sounds are wacky, not sure if its all that bad though.

I woudn't say it over uses lighting, looks fine to me? Are you talking of sun and shadows or just the guns?

I find the IL-2 underpowered, the 109 seems fine to me.

Widescreen view? All I get is the camera pulls back a bit just like zooming out in the cockpit in SDOE. To me widescreen means letterbox.

I like what I have seen so far, I'm just going to be glad if it gets a good following and I can go online at any time and have a good time.

posted 11-25- 11:06 PM               

But, fun is the thing. I even had fun in Luftwaffe Commander, in the Spanish Civil War, but it soon lost it's fun as the planes got faster. Situation Awareness was a problem.

But, SDOE has been developed by the most active fan/modder base I've ever seen in a game. I'm firmly rooted in the WWI aircraft, and the flood of new WWI aircraft is a sight to behold. Already SDOE WWI is the ONLY time I've ever had fun being the gunner, let alone flying, in a multi-placed WWI aircraft. I've never seen any other game do that (I haven't played the full Combat Aces pack for MSCFS2, but I played enough download aircraft to see that WWI MSCFS2 has more boring terrain, and more importantly the AI can't handle WWI). The new Zeppelin coming out will blow your mind.

But soon to come, I trust, is the Heinkel HE-111. I've said elsewhere in the SDOE messageboards that that bird is going to cause me to install the WW2 planepacks, so I can do missions for the 111. I've really wanted to fly that one.

Finally, to me, the FEEL of flying in SDOE is better than what I find in other sims.

Maybe IL2 will have this loyal a fan base, this good a forum. If so, let's see what that game looks like when it's as old as SDOE...

------------------
V/R,

posted 11-26- 12:10 AM               

SDOE is 3 years old (About) The origonal shipped with 10 planes! Most people tend to forget that... Compair the origonal SDOE to IL-2. You cannot possibly say SDOE is better.

Have you seem the origonal bullet effects and flashes in SDOE? They leave alot to be desired for... Same thing with the sounds.

I find that IL-2s ships and tanks are better. They have better lighting, they move, they are smart and they are not totaly accurate.

IL-2 was built for a GeForce just like SDOE was built for Glide.

SDOE didnt come with hi-res skins and there IS support for hi-res skins in IL-2.

SDOE gunners are about the same as IL-2 gunners, both are deadly. Only SDOEs AI tracks one aircraft at a time.

Have you ever watched Saving Private Ryan and had a bullet fly past you? Well Ive had both and let me tell you, a bullet flying past in fly-by mode in IL-2 sounds very close to the real thing.

Real life IS colorful! IL-2 is colorful and a work of art. It probably just seems glossy on your Voodoo 5...

I can take off in IL-2 just fine. I think you need some flying lessons in take offs. Also you must enery manage!! (Something you dont have to worry about in SDOE, but is VERY important in real life)

posted 11-26- 08:10 AM               

Also, very few of us are forced to play the original shipping SDOE.

posted 11-26- 10:29 AM               

I also hate the comic book effect, I hate the enemy planes looking like a moving texture on the windscreen, I hate the total lack of depth, it makes judging distance so damn hard. The IL2 is a major bitch to get off the ground and thats a fact, and I do know how to take off LOL.

BUT, as I said in another thread, IL2 isn't as much of a flight sim as it is a game, that doesn't mean there isn't realism in the FM ect, there is, but SDOE was built around flight physics rather than looking pretty, thats why we don't get as maney planes in the air as other sims of it's time did.

I'm happy to compair SDOE as it is now against IL2, because I know IL2 wont develope to anything like the level of SDOE, there may well be extra planes added along the way, but they will never reach the number of planes we have

posted 11-26- 10:56 AM               

It SHOULD be miles better than SDOE, but in reality, most of what it offers over and above SDOE is eye candy. Nothing wrong with that .... but I hoped for a little bit more, especially when you look at the PC power it wants.

We are all spoiled rotten with the pure genius that is OpenPlane. We can't judge IL2 on that basis, because it will never have the open architecture that makes SDOE so much fun. Oleg Maddox won't release the secrets of IL2 in much the same way as EAW was kept hidden. Sure, people will crack it eventually, but not until it's well past it's sell-by date.

Now if IL2 was mod friendly, even in a small way, then that would make it a must have. If Oleg released a plane importer, that allowed for model import to his formats, along with the ability to plug in some FM information, then that would be good.

Yes...there will be add-on planes in the future, but only if Oleg releases them. And does a lot of the work too.

So....if you are a developer who gets paid for a new game, but gets nothing for doing work on an old sim .... how long do you carry on building stuff for free. You end up going the CFS route, and releasing add-on packs at £25 a throw .....

You have to judge IL2 by what you get in the box .... and don't expect any more. Nat is spot on when he says it will never grow and develop as SDOE has done, but then it's maker never intended it to.

I will still buy it .... coz I like the look of it, even though I still won't be able to fly half of the planes I want to!!!!!

can you fly the I16, the Pe2, the Ju88, the Stuka? Has it got a 110 ?

posted 11-26- 01:04 PM               

The only plane I have a hard time getting in the air is the P39 in the demo anyways.

The IL-2 and Bf109 are easy.

Like I said, I want to fly online, that means a game with a large following and stable online.

That means I can't use SDOE. Its that simple.

If it wasn't for the patches making the game unplayable for me then I would fly some of the cool planes offline, but it would probly just be a flight or 2 and then I would get bored and want some real action online.

Sorry guys but 10-15 guys online for a couple hours on certain nights just doesn't cut it for me.

posted 11-26- 02:29 PM            

Most stink,

posted 11-26- 04:40 PM               

Games may be cracked... but it will always be hundreds of times harder to make objects for it... and you will be able to do much less stuff.

You know Bryan learned this with the OpenPlane code... most of the work in SDOE is the open system. Any coder knows that a flexible system is many times more complex to implement than a hard-coded one. So it is all a matter of trade offs... you can do some damn cool things much easier hard-coded... but you can make a very expandable sim of you build in flexibility.

And it is not just for OPS geeks either... new sims can be built off of the OpenPlane engine much faster and more reliably than most standard hard-coded game engines. The artists can get right to work... this is a great thing!

posted 11-26- 07:37 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by ArgonV:
Todesvogel,

SDOE is 3 years old (About)...You cannot possibly say SDOE is better.
...
IL-2 was built for a GeForce just like SDOE was built for Glide.
...
Have you ever watched Saving Private Ryan and had a bullet fly past you? Well Ive had both and let me tell you, a bullet flying past in fly-by mode in IL-2 sounds very close to the real thing.

It probably just seems glossy on your Voodoo 5...

I can take off in IL-2 just fine. I think you need some flying lessons in take offs. Also you must enery manage!! Have any of you ben to Eastern Europe? (Russia and surrounding countries) My dad has and he said it was mostly flat lands...

---

It is.

After turning down the lighting effects, the IL2 planes look more realistic.

I've analyzed the sound of hundreds of M16 and 50 CAL rounds flying past a position (before the muzzel report arrived) one-at-a-time, IL2 is not realistic. The only time I've heard an IL2-type sound was after a round struck the ground.

Well, I don't know. I've been in Cessna 172s (Dad was the pilot in command), and they seem to take off with greater enthusiasm than the fighters in IL2... maybe my frame of reference is off... but I'd guess a real IL2 has a greater power-to-weight ratio than a 172. I'd like to hear from a real pilot on this matter.

In fact, you can go here:
http://skyhawk.cessna.com/spec_perf.chtml and here
http://www.il2sturmovik.com/games_elts/aircraft.php
to see that an IL2 has almost twice the power-to-weight ratio of a 172. I've never seen a real 172 glued to the ground like the planes in the IL2 game.

I've driven in lower Poland and Czech Rep., they are somewhat hilly. I've also flow over Russia (on the way to St. Petersburg/Moscow), and it seems mostly flat.

I also agree with the comment about the poor 3d perspective. The aircraft outside the windscreen graphically jump from a blob to a plane in a way that makes recognizing "traffic" difficult in combat.

Overall, I think SDOE has better craftmanship, and soul.

If IL2 had a modeling facility that allowed someone (with little skill) like me to build the WWII planes I want, then it would be worth the investment. But it doesn't...

posted 11-26- 10:19 PM               

And the Germans use slang/dialect in IL2 (Zwoll not Zwei). Is this realistic?

posted 11-27- 02:12 AM               

Yes they both rock.

If SDOE ever becomes a solid game and develops a good online following then it could be just as good as IL-2 for pretty much all the flying I want to do.

I'm loving managine my boost and engine temp in IL-2 though.

I think the planes feel underpowered cause of the load they are carrying.

When looking at power to weight ratios does that include a full tank a fuel? I'm pretty sure any warplane carrys alot more fuel then a pleasure flyer. That could skew the whole argument a bit.

I have no problems with the 109, the IL-2 is sluggish but it is loaded down and a flying take and probly underpowered (I'm still playing the demo and i'm assuming its an early varient?)

I also like SDOEs physics better, the compressing landing gear and such.

I think (like I said earlier) they just choose to spend that CPU power on something else.

Any sim involved compromise I'm sure SV is learning all about that with Wings with wires.

posted 11-27- 09:41 PM               

Wing Loading:
IL2 = 140-160 kg / sqm
172 = 68.8 kg / sqm

The higher wing loading of the IL2 should impose higher takeoff speeds than the 172 requires (approx. 47% higher?). The IL2 engine is pulling 1/2 the weight of the 172, but the drag (from velocity sensitive effects) on the IL2 is in the neighborhood of 2.1 times that of the 172. Therefore, the IL2 should have the takeoff performance of a 172 (roughly speaking).

posted 12-03- 09:33 PM               

Aircraft of World War 2
Bill Gunston
Crescent Books
Ney York
(c) 1980 Octopus Books Limited
ISBN 0-517-31680-3

I love my copy, it is the best book I own (and one of the shortest).