posted 09-14- 12:32 AM            

Am I the only one that is getting exponentially PISSED by the day?

Plate glass windows...that's what we should make...big bombs...intense heat....sand melts when VERY HOT...grr

posted 09-14- 12:59 AM               

You REALLY want to start ww3 don't ya?

Silly.

posted 09-14- 08:09 AM               

What you said!

The first two days, I couldn't really wrap my gut around the idea that we won't see those towers tomorrow, let alone around the numbers of casualties so high...

But now, each day, I am getting more and more angry.

I just hope we stay angry, for the long haul, 'til we root out each known terrorist cell, punish each nation that refuses to cooperate in irradicating each of those groups in their own borders.

And we'd better get ready, mentally, for more. The Sears tower? The Tower of London? The Eiffel Tower? And you can be sure if they hit a target in Paris or London, Dublin, Tokyo, Seoul, or wherever, it'll be the same for me.

posted 09-14- 11:43 AM               

Your fooling yourself, it doesn't take much to piss off a couple countries and end up with a war agasint most of the middle east.

Ya get what I mean? Its not as easy to combat multiple countries on multiple fronts. Not to mention that you guys either seem to forget or think you are the shit, and never even consider that the russians just finished getting their ass handed to them a while back there.

I know I Know, your different, your the shit, your the best country on the earth, fuck that, I hope it does turn into another nam, I hope you do get your ass handed back to ya. As long as no nukes touch down here I'll be fine.

And you never really know what china is going to do, if they really do hate the states over there as some people belive, whats to stop them from doing something while the USA is busy?

Do you think they really thought the things leading up to ww1 were going to turn into what it did? No not at the time.

Its times like this where living in Canada is not enough, I just want to get the hell of this fucking planet so I can let you all kill each other off.

Dumb fucks.

Remember I have never had a problem with bringing those responsible to justice, even if that means assasination. But prove it was him first, (with more then some arabic language materials and the mention of his name) and don't start a freaking war over it with a country.

Hopefully calmer heads will prevail in your goverment. I can dream can't I?

posted 09-14- 01:19 PM               

quote:

---

Its times like this where living in Canada is not enough, I just want to get the hell of this fucking planet so I can let you all kill each other off.

---

I would bet mega $$ you would be the first one to move too ANOTHER county the minute Canada was attacked by a foreign power. Its pretty evident you're a coward and just want to be somewhere safe where you dont have to do any work and set at your computer all day making an ass of yourself. You're a Pro.

I understand you dont want a War. We didn't want one either but we dont have a choice now. It is time to get rid of some of these terrorist bastards and show them we wont stand for this shit. Thanks for your support Spanky.

posted 09-14- 01:44 PM            

"Its not as easy to combat multiple countries on multiple fronts. Not to mention that you guys either seem to forget or think you are the shit, and never even consider that the russians just finished getting their ass handed to them a while back there."

We prevailed in WW2 fighting multiple fronts. We shall do it again. That's what makes us America. Also our allies will fight with us....from all over the world. You are either for us, or against us. You are a bad spokesperson for Canada.

Oh, and please go fuck yourself.

"your the best country on the earth"

Exactly.

Friday is a day of mourning , hopefully Monday will be a day of asswhipping.

posted 09-14- 02:53 PM               

My real dad and my step dad were both in the US and Canadian airforce. Both my grandparents were in the Canadian airforce(not to sure about my real dads parents). I have considered joining myself in the past, I actually wanted to join the US (remember I am an American) cause you guys have attack helis and helis are my interest, but My eyesight wouldn't pass that test, its not 20/20.

Anyways, that time has passed and I have choosen my course for my life, I have thought about joining the reserves but I want to be in better shape before that.

I would join my country in defending it, and I would join the US in defending itself, I DON'T want to join in starting a massive world war though, which is what I feel you guys are heading for. Sorry if you can't see the situation for what it is.

About wanting you to fail, I didn't actually mean that literally, I ment as a lesson. Americans are arrogent, and its freaking annoying. They think they can get away with anything. Why is it you were attacked? Maybe because of that.

People keep saying wait till london is attacked, wait till Canada is attacked. Sorry guys I don't see that happening, cause we don't get other countries pissed at us. We are PEACE KEEPERS. We don't fund other peoples wars, or teach them how to fight. We aid them, not with guns but with food and supplies.

Anyways you guys were attacked, and I truly feel for ya. Like I was saying yesterday to Werner, it makes me feel physicaly sick, not just sad. But I don't think you are fighting a country here and you guys seem to think there is a country you can blame.

Its a people, a movment. Nukes and such don't work on people like that. Hell that might be what they want, They might be antagonizing you guys into something larger cause thats what they want.

Like I said earlier, you guys don't trust China, what if they are behind this?

Do you guys TRULY belive that this couldn't in anyway turn into something MUCH worse and MUCH larger if you go into Afghanastan with ground troops on a mass level (like going into Kuwait)and just start wiping out a whole country as if they whole population is your enemy?

Once again, I'll state the terrorists were wrong, they are evil, they should be hunted down and killed or brought to justice, yes there might be some collateral damage and you might have to kill some people in your way. I accept and support all of that.

I just don't support and actual take over and genocide of a country. Which is what some people are calling for, even you guys seem to be calling for it.

Seriously, do you REALLY, I mean REALLY want to actually launch nukes at Afghanastan?

Kill off a whole country!

posted 09-14- 04:51 PM               

Find and punish those responsible, Thats what I would sign up for.

Killing a whole country or even a whole city is NOT something I support.

The terrorists are evil because they killed noncombatent innocents.

What about all the inocents in a city? Do you feel they are all guilty?

Not everyone in that country supports terroists.

So when you joining up Jerry? Your so bent on revenge, go get your gun and join up!

posted 09-14- 05:14 PM               

What is the proper response of a coalition of nations to someone like the Taliban of Afghanistan who have for years knowingly sheltered Bin Laden, allow the presence of training camps, and are making excuses for and continuing to shelter Bin Laden?

Now spare me the sermon about how we don't kill everyone in the country, or how we don't wipe out any given entire city, because I'm with you on that. I'm asking: What do we do with a (portion of a*) country that refuses to hand over THE arch known terrorist? And let's posit the reasonable projection that when we present hard evidence that Bin Ladin is connected to terrorist activity, they blow that off and continue to refuse.

What do you propose? I propose we START by, after the clear word is given to hand ALL terrorists over and to dismantle the training camps, and after their refusal, wiping out any military, industrial, and/or infrastructure targets we can find. We flat guarantee that the rebels the Taliban are fighting win. We also demonstrate that any nation involved in actively and knowingly sheltering such vermin will lose far more than they gain by their own standard. We give them a reason not to allow terrorism in their borders.

Hit the industrial targets at night? Fine.

I had a bully in Middle School, years ago, pester me (sensitive child that I was) to tears and fear. No words of reason could disuade him to leave me alone. He enjoyed his ability to mess with me. One day, in the gym locker room, he pushed me until I snapped, everything just whited out. When I came to myself, I took a step back, and he collapsed on the floor, beaten to an inch of his life by the bookish boy he had terrorized.

That was the last day any bully in that school ever messed with me.

posted 09-14- 05:38 PM               

I'm glad to see someone with a level head respond and not just attack me.

posted 09-14- 11:36 PM               

There are causes worth fighting and dying for and we (the West, not just the US) should not allow the fear of another Vietnam to blind us to seeing them (like it often does in my humble opinion). With geo-politics they way they are (Pakistan is a nuclear power after all), it's all in how and when you fight it.

"Revenge is a dish best served cold". And I might add to that time honored saying, "and smart".

posted 09-15- 02:27 AM               

Yeah thats pretty much it, take your time, make sure its only going to do what you want and not have it explode in your face.

I'll add to that, that I'm really scared of this turning into something NO ONE wanted, not even Jerry and DanW.

They want war. I think it all out war might be overboard but It woudln't really bug me.

What would bug (and scare) me would be the start of something wider, like the WHOLE middle east exploding into war, or even further nuculear exchanges.

You guys can call me a pussy all ya want but I would rather not see any nukes used. Specialy not on US soil. I know you think it may happen from terrorists anyways, and your right it could but thats alot differnt then an all out exchange.

Sorry if I would rather my son didn't grow up in the aftermath of a nuculear war.

If you guys ARN'T afraid of nuculear war, then theres just something wrong or your letting your anger cloud your judgment.

What I mean is if some guy raped your girlfriend, you would want revenge and you would be justified, and I would even join you if you wanted help.

But You better make sure you get the right guy, and even if you do, you better know you are a better fighter then him, or have more friends if he has a possee. Or have a bigger gun if he is packing, and even if you are better in every way (as the USA is over afghan) you never know who his friends are or what kind of power they possess (as in connections and money and crap) And what motivated the attack. And you better be ready for revenge against you.

Well that analogy started out decent and kinda fell apart

Really, just think about it, think of the implications of your actions, do your homework, make sure you are in the right(which you are in this case of course), and do whatever you can do to improve your image so it doesn't just keep happening.

Seems that people do that all the time, except they are throwing it all out the window now.

posted 09-15- 03:02 AM               

On my own point of view, I must say I wouldn't be upset if tactical nucs were used on terrorist training camps, that said, being honest, we know that would never happen, any and all forms of nucs would only be used in a full scale war against another nuclear power, but tac nucs are the scarey weapon most civilians expect when they here "nuclear missle", I'm sure you know this also, but the world would totaly condem the use of them in this case, and the USA would never turn everyone against them like that, but I talk from my own opinion, and would not mind seeing them used, but as said, only on terrorist training camps, which are all out in the middle of the desert and way from populated areas.

I'd have to do my checking, but, I don't think there are any ME countries that have nuclear weapons, I could easily be wrong, but I don't think there are, so although you can never be 100% certain, I doubt a full scale nuclear conflict could arise.

OK, taking nuc's out of the equasion, that doesn't change my mind on what I believe realy needs to happen now. If proved beyond a reasonable doubt, that this is Bin Ladins work, then a sustained all out assault on Afganistan should be started. This will be costly in the long run as we must support the country afterwards, but thats all part of the price and only right and proper, after all, the Taliban took over there, they aren't in power because the country wants them.

So, what do we do, we destroy Afganistan, starting with a totaly overwhelming assualt from bombers and strike aircraft, and ofcourse Cruise with FAE warheads. After this initial strike that should be directed at all camps, military bases/airports and power stations, strike aircraft can continue sorties destroying anything left of interest, this must be done for quiet sometime. Basicly we remove Afganistan as a Nation.

OK, we've made an example of Afganistan, thats the military side over for the time being, everything else after this relies on intelligence, and and every possible lead must be followed, terrorists tracked down and killed or brought to justice. This was a failure of us in Northern Ireland, we knew almost every terrorist in NI, and where they were, but we opted to track them, not remove them, thats politics, but not good in stopping terrorism. We as a world must track terrorists and pick them up, not just watch what they are doing. OK, the thinking is they will lead you to someone higher, but this doesn't always work, but, as the snake dies without it's head, the head dies without the body. Remove the guys on the ground and you'll see a difference petty sharpish.

Right now I realy believe we could be on the verge of a new world order, an acceptance of other nations, and working together with a common goal. We'll always squable about human rights and things like that, this is politicians jobs, they need that But at the same time we'll all have a common ground, actively working together to combat terrorism, and all the time, these terrorist shuned even by their former allies, who will all remember what happend to Afganistan for harbouring them.

posted 09-15- 03:03 AM               

Like I said its a pleasure to talk with someone who is not just blasting me and calling me names. Thank you And I would like to thank 3dp and Nat also.

K, this was your plan.

--------------------
What do you propose? I propose we START by, after the clear word is given to hand ALL terrorists over and to dismantle the training camps, and after their refusal, wiping out any military,
---------------------------

Yep let them know you have evidence against the people you seek, make it as overwhelming as you can, and have other countries review it and concur, hopefully try to get some arab nations join too, although that would be doubtfull.

Then give the word, let it be known that you won't put up with any shit, and you won't put up with any resistance, then go in and take who you seek by force, including taking out anyone who bars your way. I agree that it could end up including civilians, and I can accept that as long as it is minimized, I'm still not convince that the avergage afghan peasent supports anything except keeping himself fed. Like I said if they stand in your way, take them out, but if not leave as many alone as possible, the last thing you are there to do is form even more hatred of americans, infact if so inclinded even help the people in any ways you can, show them that americans are nice people.

Yep take out any training camps, I'm all for that, also monitor anymore poping up of course. Take out military falls in line with my stuff above, if they REALLY resist, just remove any military capacity country wide, maybe not rifles as you guys love yours too but any war weapons, fully auto guns, and anything larger.

K now here is where we begin to seperate in what we would do.

You say:
---------------------
industrial, and/or infrastructure targets we can find. We flat guarantee that the rebels the Taliban are fighting win.
---------------------

See I'm not sure if destroying industrial and infrastructure is going to help much, I guess if your having a hard time because there factories still have power to make more weapons or you want to make sure their radar has no power, or their refineries aren't fueling their tanks, go for it. But be carefull of again increasing more hatred towards your country.

Again we differ, you say aid the opposition to the Taliban, I would on the base issue maybe say yes, but do it behind the scenes if at all possible. Again when you fight alongside the rebles or just give them weapons you set your self up as the enemy of the taliban, I really feel that should be minimized, that may be unavoidable in this case though, so be it then I guess you just have to do it, as it seems the taliban just can't stay in power. IF a majority of the people would rather not live under their rule (who knows?).

You go on to say:
---------------
We also demonstrate that any nation involved in actively and knowingly sheltering such vermin will lose far more than they gain by their own standard. We give them a reason not to allow terrorism in their borders.
---------------

Yep fully support that, I don't think you will have to do much more then the above to show other countries that you won't put up with any shit anymore on this issue, I totally could see in other countries, using spec ops and such to extract known terrorists, but don't use unmarked helies and such, let them know who did it and why and ask for extradition first again of course. Of course minimize collateral damage again.

Also continue any other methods in use or increase them, all at the same time, stuff such as economic sanctions and stuff. I know they are kinda weak but every little bit helps drive your point across.

Ok so did I cover everything?

Over all pretty much like you but I want to minimize damage to stuff that will hurt innocent people, It shouldn't be that hard considering how well the gulf war was done.

About the image of the USA in the middle east, Lots of people don't like the us for one reason or another.

I don't think you can demand complience only through fear. I really think you have to befriend the people.

Doesn't the bible say something about that?

What I mean is don't set yourself up as the enemy. Don't step into that role, help them, aid them. Show them that Americans are good people, make sure your soliders on the ground are kind and polite.

You HAVE to foster a better world image of yourself. Yes your the one super power and yes you have alot to be proud of, but that also means you have to set a PERFECT example, and not play favorites.

Really if you walk away from the middle east and just leave with the same image you have now or worse, things will not be any better. New terrorists will pop up, and the damage will be worse next time.

posted 09-15- 03:23 AM               

I guess we will see what path the US takes and see just how it turns out.

If they try your way and it doesn't stop it can we try mine?

Why don't I think yours will work?

I don't belive you can rule through fear, I think it will just foster even more hate. And I don't think the other arab nations will like it much either.

Thats just what I think.

MAYBE just Maybe if the USA sticks around for the REALLY long term. I'm talking 50 years or more, and doesn't turn it into a police state, Maybe they can show the people a better way of life and win over the decendats of those killed off and maimed.

I really in my heart still don't belive that would work though, but it would be better then just leaving after leveling it.

About nukes, I'm talking about the big boys.

And I don't mean just ones in possesion by the ME countries. I'm talking China and such.

Like I said the USA doens't trust China but they seem to never even think of them taking advantage of this whole situation or not liking something the USA does.

Actually this is also a chance to show China what the USA CAN be like. You can show them that you are over the top warmongerers, or you can show them you are a compasionate people just looking for justice and trying to make the world on the whole a better place.

God knows the image of the USA could use some improveing in red China.

posted 09-15- 09:23 AM            

"People keep saying wait till london is attacked, wait till Canada is attacked. Sorry guys I don't see that happening, cause we don't get other countries pissed at us. We are PEACE KEEPERS. We don't fund other peoples wars, or teach them how to fight. We aid them, not with guns but with food and supplies."

I hate to tell you man-- but the Taliban stated it would retaliate against anyone supporting a US attack....looks like everyone will be involved real soon.

posted 09-15- 09:43 AM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wing Chaps:
I had a bully in Middle School, years ago, pester me (sensitive child that I was) to tears and fear. No words of reason could disuade him to leave me alone. He enjoyed his ability to mess with me. One day, in the gym locker room, he pushed me until I snapped, everything just whited out. When I came to myself, I took a step back, and he collapsed on the floor, beaten to an inch of his life by the bookish boy he had terrorized.

That was the last day any bully in that school ever messed with me.

Chaps out

---

posted 09-16- 07:28 PM               

This approach will cost us, we MUST then support the country we have destroyed, we must feed and supply it's people on a scale not undertaken before. All this to prove a simple point:

Terrorism and those that harbor them will be attacked with extreme force, but we are willing to help those that fight with us against terrorism, and we will only destroy the people we need to, while helping the ordinary people of the land. Lets those people see what happens if their goverment supports terrorism, but also that they aren't the target, and we'll help them rebuild.