posted 02-13- 04:17 PM            

Ok, I admit it, this was a bonehead move by
Clinton. I would be the last one to say we
need to pardon billionaire crooks. We have
enough of them running around that haven't
even been arrested yet.

What I don't get is the republicans seem to
think this is somehow different that Nixon
naming Ford as his vice presedent and then
resigning and letting Ford pardon him. How
about George Bush sr. pardoning Cap
Wienberger before he was even indicted?

posted 02-13- 04:37 PM               

I don't know about you guys, but I'm really hoping there is a sequel to Impeachment. Let's hear it for Impeachment Part Deux! What a riot it will be to see guys like Burton and Barr fall flat on their faces again... hahaha!

posted 02-13- 06:42 PM               

Mark Rich "bought" his pardon and is a convicted felon to boot. What convicted felons were pardoned by Ford/Bush for a payoff?

There is a big difference here, but you are blinded by your hatred for anything or anyone associated with the Republican Party.

posted 02-13- 07:31 PM               

No one has suggested that money exchanged hands in those cases.

But, there are other ways to buy pardons.

For instance, take the case of Bush pardoning Weinberger... Weinberger essentially fell on his sword to protect Bush and Reagan. The pay off? Weinberger pardoned.

That money is exchanged should not be the only criteria for determining whether a pardon was bought.

All Smokey is saying is that if you're going to nail Clinton for this pardon, you've got to nail those other bozos too. I think that's fair, don't you?

posted 02-13- 07:57 PM               

But why is this? Because the president is a great man - we should all have great faith in him even in times when things seem bad. The public can never know the real story - as much as we try.

The sad thing here (and maybe in other cases) is that a president's credibility is questioned. I am not a Clinton fan, but I do not question his intentions... he has earned the right to pardon - America has put their trust in him - I will accept that this pardon, at some level, was in the best interest of America. One MUST give him that benefit... we could never know the many sorted details that go on behind the scenes, we have to trust at some level...

The question is, do you trust Clinton's motives? Does America trust Clinton? It is too late for that question now - the states have chosen him and he deserves a shot at doing things his way...

posted 02-13- 09:49 PM            

It's the same old crap. Lying and covering up
is not so terrible when it's republicans
doing it.

SV correctly points out that all of these
presidents have the right to pardon anyone
they want to. Even our dim-witted court
appointed president told congress to lay off
and get on with the public's business.

posted 02-13- 10:01 PM               

Using your criteria, all pardons are wrong because it lets the crooks off before they serve their time. That's the whole point of pardons!!

posted 02-14- 01:32 PM               

And, more importantly, what kind of name is Arlen Specter? Sounds more like a super-villain from a James Bond movie :-P

In any case, I'd like to formally apologize on behalf of the state of Pennsylvania for Mr. Specter's recent grandstanding.

posted 02-14- 03:21 PM            

Disenfranchized voters maybe. Nope.

How 'bout not counting all the votes?
Wrong again.

Ok, machines that don't count votes right and
kick out legitimate votes. No dice.

posted 02-14- 03:30 PM               

Hehehe... and guess who the prosecutor was in the Rich case... yep... none other than Rudolph Giuliani.

posted 02-14- 04:41 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by Smokey:
Actually, Jerry, if you read your constitution,
that you were touting when it was getting
Bush appointed to the white house, I think
you will find that there is nothing keeping
a president from taking a bribe to pardon
someone. I would never condone this but that,
evedently, is the way it is.

Also, in what research I've done I can find
that Mark Rich is only wanted by the justice
department, not convicted of anything.

---

Smokey,

There are a lot of things a President can do wrong which aren't specifically mentioned in the Constitution. It doesn't mean he is above the law.

posted 02-14- 05:27 PM            

Jerry, if you are president, you get free furniture when you move out of the White House.

posted 02-15- 03:37 AM               

Finally

posted 02-15- 08:26 AM               

Do you know why presidents have the right to pardon? Do you think it was just a big over-sight inthe constitution?

posted 02-15- 12:36 PM            

I think the use of the power of pardon has
strayed quite a bit from what it was intended
to be. I think something like pardoning a
wrongly convicted political prisoner is more
in line with the intended use of the power
of pardon.

Mirth, I agree but if were going to start
the scrutenization then we need to go back
and do it for at least all living presidents.
Ford and Bush sr. would be in the same boat
as Clinton is.

The Clintons gave back the 28000 dollars worth
of furniture that was in dispute. A Bush
spokesman said nothing was vandalized on
Air Force 1 as was charged.

posted 02-16- 04:23 PM               

See, what we read in the press is never the full true story - and we do have groups outside the law such as the CIA, etc. Sometimes they require special leeway to get the job done.

The fact is, someone may do something that "looks" real bad, but saved many lives - or saved our country! The act of pardoning protects such great people so that they can do these secret hidden things for us...

There is never a way of proving that a pardon was done for this reason, that is the whole point! If you think that this pardon is unjust, I suggest in the future that you elect presidents that you can trust

Have you ever had a news story or magazine article done about you or your business? It is amazing how different the news is from reality...

So much magic happens behind the scenes, in art, business, and politics. Certainly there is a huge secret hidden world from us... and it must be this way. Bad things happen, and good things happen, but there must be allowances for it! It would be ignorant to suggest that the government could function without any option of secrecy and "special powers" such as pardoning.

posted 02-22- 09:17 AM               

RESPECT:

This morning on CNN George W. was shown leaving 'Marine One' Helicopter
(HM-1). The Marine enlisted man at the front step saluted, GW returned it,
and as GW walked away, the Marine executed a right face to stand facing
GW's back...something that was not done in eight years of the Clinton
presidency. This traditional Marine Corps mark of respect was rendered to
the
new president. The Marine's respectful facing maneuver goes back to the
days of
sailing ships with rigging, when the Marine orderly to the ship's Captain
always faced him, no matter the direction of the Captain's movement, so to
be
ready to receive an order from the Captain. Who says that the enlisted
force
could not withhold respect from a individual who didn't deserve their
respect
as a person? For eight years, they did. And for eight years Clinton and
his
civilian advisors didn't know enough about the military they were
"commanding" to realize what enlisted Marines were actually doing (or rather
not doing).

posted 02-22- 11:53 AM            

Maybe it was litigating his way into the
white house rather than messing with nasty
little details like counting votes.

Or, maybe it's all he's doing for the economy
like giving Bill Gates a tax cut that won't
really kick in for about 5 years. In the
mean time he's letting it go down the tubes.

Maybe it's his great military record of
hiding in the National Guard, with his
daddy's help, during vietnam. He's just as
big of draft dodger as Clinton.

posted 02-22- 03:33 PM               

I have never met anyone who served in the military while Clinton was in office who "respected" the man, so why give him more honor than he deserves or is required. He, his wife, his brother, and his brother-in-law are all crooked.