posted 01-25- 12:39 PM               

What percentage of sales are these "obscene" profits?

This is for one quarter, what are they for a year?

What have they been over time? Is this an aberition?

Are they the result of operations, or a one-time sale of assets or a loss carry-forward tax benefit?

Smokey, if you are going to try to intrepret the financial pages you should know what questions to ask. You're like the blindman who feels the tail of an elephant and thinks it's a snake. Look at the whole picture.

posted 01-25- 03:17 PM               

The point is you have to know what the starting point is before you start analyzing percentage growth.

I did some research, something you should try. Yes, Exxon had a record 4th quarter and a record year in 2000. This was after the recent merger with Mobil. Together they were able to operate more efficiently.

Despite this being a record year, their net income (profit) as a percentage of sales was still only 7.6%. For the three years 97-99 their net income was 5.8%, 4.7% and 4.2% of sales. In other words for every dollar of gas they sold they make about a nickle.

How much in Federal and State taxes do you pay for every dollar of gas you buy? Read the pump. The goverment makes more money off gasoline sales than the oil companies.

posted 01-25- 06:13 PM               

Let's face it Smokey, you and your Comrades don't like any company to make any money because to you that is ripping off the customer. If I'm wrong then tell me what you consider is a reasonable profit. If I own a bookstore and sell $400,000 worth of books, how much should I make in your perfect world? If I am a shareholder in a company that does $1 million in business, how much profit should that company make?

posted 01-25- 06:15 PM            

You can't argue with Ward Cleaver.

*hums Leave it to Beaver theme*

posted 01-25- 11:51 PM               

Since we agree that 100% (double) is excessive, tell me what is an acceptable profit margin and not a rip-off?

posted 01-26- 02:18 PM            

"Look close Dan, this is you in 30 years... living life thinking that some group of people that only care about whether or not you pay them to sit on their asses all day and laugh at the easy money they are making, actually did something for you. You too will sit in your sad little life and bitch about me making more in a month than you did in a year.... crying into your beer with your out of work idiot friends because the union made the business unprofitable so they folded. Have fun....
I will laugh as I drive by in a new car, to my summer house.
Morons."

ROFLMAO!!!

Hahahah....

Where do you come up with this stuff? ....it's killer!!!

Please, call me in 30 years bud. That would be funny.

Summer home...*snicker*...hahaha

posted 01-27- 06:51 AM               

We all need gas to get to work, not much we can do to avoid it except take public transit.

Unfortunatly I can't carry a table saw on the bus.

Then it also effects food, cause they guys driving the trucks that carry it need to fill the tanks.

Now its effecting wood, Not a big deal to you guys but for me trying to make somthing and having to raise the prices cause my costs have gone up sucks.

Its either that or me make less money and pay more money for food, transportation and heating.

Its really starting to suck.

posted 01-27- 09:11 AM               

They are issuing a check, Calling it an energy rebate, Kinda a way of giving that money back without giving the oil companies a way of eating it up.

Its really not a good system though, ALthough I'm going to love that extra 250$ Its not going to help companies and independent truckers put more fuel in the tanks.

More people are thinking its just a attempt to look like the good guys in the situation. Which is probly is.

Like I said though I need that money so either way.

I really do think that if they did lower the taxes the oil companies would eat it up though.

Really what choice do we have? Its like all the oil companies are in bed together.

In fact if they did lower the taxes and the price didn't drop, couldn't you accuse the companies of price fixing?

posted 01-27- 06:36 PM               

Spanky,
You got it, and the government has done it before... it is a way to make sure that the companies are not gouging.

One question Smokey,
Did the company in question do any layoffs, or close any divisions? Did they have any sort of negative cash flow situations that would facilitate them getting a bigger margin? how about that merger? Could that have affected the margin?
All things to think about when analyzing these numbers.

posted 01-28- 03:58 PM            

89% increase in profits is still outrageous.
I don't care what you say. Especially when
people are going without medication to pay
for their energy needs.

posted 01-28- 06:09 PM               

>I don't care what you say.

Sorry Smokey, didn't mean to confuse you with the facts. You go right on believing what you believe and don't pay any attention to anyone who says differently. This is a free country and you have the right to ignore the truth.

posted 01-28- 07:08 PM            

Your own figures said an 89% increase in
profits in the fourth quarter amounted to
a 3% increase from the fourth quarter last
year. I projected it out to a full year to
illistrate how much it was compared to the
amount of raise a company usually wants to
give their employees on an annual basis.
I don't like being screwed whether it's for
a quarter or an entire year.

posted 01-28- 09:11 PM               

If your buying a part for you bike from the local store the markup is 100%.

As in if that handle bar costs you $100 it only costs the store $50 from the supplier. I havn't a clue how much the suppliers make off stuff, I sure hope it isn't 100% too.

That not how larger stuff like whole bikes are priced though.

Does that seem a little excesive?

Do you guys know how prices work in other retail stuff? clothing or something?

posted 01-28- 10:40 PM               

Employee wages which includes Social Security and Medicare matching, worker's compensation insurance, unemployment insurance, benefits if offered, and usually some local payroll taxes - here in Portland, Oregon it's a transit tax on payroll which
employers pay. Every dollar an employee receives usually costs an employer $1.25 to $1.50

Rent, which can be VERY expensive in a good location,

Utilities

Advertising

Cost of inventory (money tied up in unsold inventory)

Taxes

Interest and principal on loans

Bad debt - bad checks, etc.

Inventory "shrinkage" - shop lifted or damaged

Building maintenance

Property and liability insurance

The list goes on and on. I know, I owned a retail store for five years and never took out a dime for myself.

Smokey, I've asked you before but you never gave an answer: What is an "acceptable" profit in your world? Spanky, can you answer this?

Or conversely, at what point does profit become "excessive".

posted 01-29- 10:14 AM               

I was trying to show smokey that was seems excessive might not be. Like you showed 100% markup not to be excessive.

What would I call acceptible.

Well When Priceing a job we were taught to add up.

Cost of materials, including a small amount of waste.

Cost of labour, including a small waste.

Cost of running the business, as in all the if it takes you 10 days to do a project, how much does it cost besides labour to run the shop for 10 days? Including all stuff you mentioned, heat, lighting, tool matenince, insurance out standing loans advertising and so on.

Then tack on another 2-4% for profit, to be reinvested into the business, maybe in new tools. larger shop or what ever.

This profit is usually the first thing to get cut when times are hard, next might be labour. Thats cause they are the easiest things to change, You can't change the materials nor cause you easily change the costs of running.

If times are good and you have no real compitition, or are in cahoots with them (as it sometimes seems) Then you can charge more money and make more profit.

Now if that profit grew to an excessive amount I think that would be bad, If it was because of me or my employees that times were so good, (IE we were in great demand because of the speed or quality of our work) then that excess profit would be turned into higher pay, and better shop equipment for a better work enviorment.

Its really hard to tell what is excessive, I guess that would be when your customer is barly able to pay it. I'm not in the business of selling something that is essential though.

The problem with some companyes is that excess profit goes to the owner and/or shareholders and they are greedy for money (NOT SAYING WE ALL ARN'T GREEDY TO SOME EXTENT CAUSE WE ARE INCLUDING ME) Since they are wanting money, the companies making a decent profit sometimes go overboard and slash pay, cut off extra workers even in time of great wealth, and don't put money back into the work eviorment, leading to a crappier and crappier place to work.

Wasn't it GM that slashed workers and factories in times of great profit all in the name of even more profit?

AH HERE WE GO, if a company is in the black by a good margin and is a healthy company by anyones standards and it still cuts workers, wages and quality of product. THAT extra profit is excessive.

posted 01-29- 05:13 PM               

BTW here in this town before the big upset gas was at 55 cents about 10cents a liter more then in alot of other places in this province.

I'm not sure why but it was.

Now its more like 75 cents.

Are you saying that they made 89% profit AFTER all operating expenses were paid for?

posted 01-29- 05:49 PM            

I'll never figure it out.