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Jerry Pilot |
posted 01-19- 12:13 AM
   
If you don't think there is a double standard in this country, especially in the press, watch how Jesse Jackson's (black, liberal minister) having an affair while married and fathering a child is compared to Jimmy Swaggert's (white conservative minister) affair a few years ago. Swaggert was hounded to death by the press, ridiculed by the left wing and rejected by his followers. He has not been heard of since. Now let's see what fate is in store for Reverend Jesse Jackson. Swaggert probably got what he deserved...but will Jackson get the same treatment? Not! For another example of press bias and Democrat attack dogs look at how Hillary's $8 million dollar book advance is being treated compared to Newt Gringrich's a few years ago. IP: Logged |
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Lothar Pilot |
posted 01-19- 12:44 AM
Oh come on, Jackson's affair isn't a big deal because he isn't raging on and on about how sex and desire is immoral. now if Jackson were caught calling a white person a 'cracker', I'd expect the same level of outrage that was expressed with Swaggart, Baker, etc. IP: Logged |
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Jerry Pilot |
posted 01-19- 12:54 AM
So in other words, as long as you don't set high standards for yourself you can do anything and it's OK. But if you try to be decent and fail, then you deserve to be punished. Is that what you're saying? OK now I get it. There is no double standard of judgement as long as there is NO standard of behavior. Don't you just love liberal core values? IP: Logged |
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Spanky the Mad Dog Pilot |
posted 01-19- 01:22 AM
SPanky here... Yeah but wasn't the chick swagart slept with a crazy looking dog? I think he has a point jerry. If someone spends their life saying that a certain thing is bad and then goes and does it themselves then yes I think they should be more harsly punished, ridiculed or whatever. Doesn't really have much do to with core values. Again with the lables BTW IP: Logged |
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Jerry Pilot |
posted 01-19- 01:46 AM
I seem to recall Jackson saying that the high percentage of out-of-wedlock births in the black community needed to be reduced...that it was not a good thing. So Spanky, you agree then....that what you do and how you behave isn't important as long as you're not being hipocritical...is that the new standard we should live by?....don't set your standards very high because you might fail? IP: Logged |
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Lothar Pilot |
posted 01-19- 03:55 PM
People responded to Swaggart's affairs so strongly not because they thought it was so specacularly worthy of press attention, but because they enjoyed seeing a preachy asshole get caught doing what he was telling everyone else they were going to burn in hell for. Yes, it is just as wrong for Jackson to have done it, but it isn't nearly as much fun seeing him publicly humiliated. IP: Logged |
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Jerry Pilot |
posted 01-19- 08:56 PM
quote: hmmmmm....sounds like a double standard to me. Don't forget, while Swaggart was a "preachy asshole" he wasn't the spokesman and inspirational leader of 25,000,000 people like Jackson either. Great role model, heh? And Swaggart's followers left him...they were true to their values. How many of Jackson's followers do you think will condemn him? Of course Jackson has a long way to go to match Mufumi, head of the NAACP. He has four illigitimate children by four different women! No, that is not an "internet" fact, just a fact. IP: Logged |
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Smokey Pilot |
posted 01-19- 10:19 PM
Lothar is right. It's more fun catching conservatives fucking up because they're the ones always telling other people how they should lead their lives. IP: Logged |
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Mighty General |
posted 01-19- 11:32 PM
I don't see that it's a double-standard. They hyped themselves differently. And their followers are very different groups of humanity. So this sort of indiscretion has different fallout. I don't see any problem with that. For example, saying that an extra-marital affair is "evil" is different than saying it's "stupid and wrong." Thus, the different reaction. What I do find a problem with is so many people in many movements letting themselves be manipulated so openly and obviously. Is there any way to teach people to look just a little deeper than the sound bites they hear on TV? It's just so bleedingly obvious that most of these people have selfish agendas that don't necessarily line up with the movement they nominally lead. Did Swaggert disappear after only the one scandel? If I remember rightly, Jim Baker's followers were so brain-dead that they let him come back a couple of times. IP: Logged |
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Jerry Pilot |
posted 01-19- 11:56 PM
You're right Smokey. Conservatives do care how people lead their lives and try to convince people that there is a better way. They prefer not to sit silently and watch America destroy itself through drugs, teenage pregnancies, single parenthood, 2nd rate public schools where lousy teachers are protected by unions, assisted suicide, a demoralized military, ambition killing tax structures, or a community of 25,000,000 blacks who have been so convinced by the Democrats that they are inferior that they need Federal Government handouts in order to survive. But these same conservatives are also human and they too and make mistakes and are willing to take the consequences. Liberals on the other hand don't give a damn how you lead, or destroy, your life as long as you pay your taxes and vote for them. The liberal mantra is "if it feels good, do it" and to hell with the consequences, the govenment will bail me out. When they make mistakes they don't care who gets hurt or who has to pay for their mistake, because they won't admit they made a mistake. They are always "victims" of someone out to get them, usually a rich Republican. This is why so much of the world loves to see the US get embarrassed or beaten...because we try to be the best at everything. As a country we, like the conservatives, have high ideals. These ideals are worth fighting for and are worthy goals, but not easy to obtain. So when the US falters, the weaker countries laugh. And when a Conservative faulters, the weaker liberals laugh. IP: Logged |
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DanW Pilot |
posted 01-20- 01:42 PM
"2nd rate public schools where lousy teachers are protected by unions" ROFL...!!! Haha. Good one. Typical conservative bullshit. Blaming teachers for problems that they have no control of. Blame the lazy parents that don't give a shit about their kids. Don't blame the poor teachers that make 30 grand a year babysitting these delinquents. IP: Logged |
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Jerry Pilot |
posted 01-20- 05:12 PM
DanW, I agree that irresponsible parents who want the government (schools) to feed and discipline their kids are a big part of the problem. But you have to admit that one of the big reasons that children in private (secular and non-secular) schools do better is that teachers have to perform or get fired. That is not the case in public schools. If the NEA would fight for teacher control of the classroom as much as they fight for more money things might be different. $30K might be the starting pay. In Oregon, which is in the middle of pack as far as teacher pay, the average is $47K/yr. Not bad nine month's work, benefits much better than in private industry, and a guaranteed lifetime job. Not bad even for $30K. IP: Logged |
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Lothar Pilot |
posted 01-20- 05:24 PM
Jerry, do you really think teenage pregnancy and drugs are the nations biggest problems? You think that we could have riots and civil war over them? I guess you are entitled to that opinion, so what are republicans doing to lower drug abuse and teenage pregnancies? They are cutting rehab programs, arresting minor offenders, and making abortion illegal. I guess those problems aren't going to go away. That's the problem with republican dogma, it's a sick combination of an old-testament style vengeful hate, and a fuck-you-give-me-mine attitude. Good luck. IP: Logged |
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Jerry Pilot |
posted 01-20- 07:44 PM
Geez Lothar, who put the burr up your ass?? Where did I say that teenage pregnancy and drugs are the nations "biggest" problems? What riots and civil war are you talking about? Vengeful hate? What hateful things did I say? If I insulted you because you are pregnant teenage drug abuser then tough.  I listed a number of situations or behaviors that create problems in our society and prevent us from reaching our full potential as a nation. Problems that liberals fail to take moral positions on...issues that liberals either don't care about for fear of alienating some segment of society and losing votes, or problems that liberals think will get fixed by spending more money. I listed issues that Conservatives are willing to take moral positions on. Conservatives are willing to say that these things are wrong and people who behave this way are weakening our society. For this Conservatives are accused of being "holier than thou" and that they have no right to tell others how to live. But that is what having values means...a willingness to hold on to your beliefs and to not depend on "focus groups" and polls to define where you stand today on an issue. Lothar, I am trying to show the difference between a Conservative point of view which recognizes standards and rules and the Liberal one which doesn't. Conservatives may appear to be "preachy" because we believe that indiviual actions are what count the most (not government action) and that individuals need some standards from time to time to guide their lives by...as opposed to what's popular at the moment or what feels good. I don't personally believe that this standard setting has to be done by churches or ordained ministers. It can and should be done by parents, teachers and our political leaders. So don't start calling me a member of the religious right because I'm not. But if it takes a church or a minister to help someone make the right choice then that's OK too. IP: Logged |
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Lothar Pilot |
posted 01-20- 10:30 PM
Hey, Jerry, its flame wars. IP: Logged |
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Jerry Pilot |
posted 01-20- 11:52 PM
That's why I get so "incensed".  IP: Logged |
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JT Pilot |
posted 01-21- 12:52 AM
Heh... Jerry... that horse you're on is smoking grass... I would get off. Seriously, though... whether a person is principled or not often has nothing to do with whether that person is liberal or conservative. I'm not even sure the terms Liberal or Conservative can be applied to that many people. Most people are really mixed bags of stuff. IP: Logged |
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Burkey Pilot |
posted 01-22- 07:43 AM
I remember one time here in N.Ireland I wanted to go to the local swimming pool on a Sunday. The entrance was blocked by a bunch of 70 something religious zealots shoutimg about how swimming on a Sunday was evil and that we would all burn in hell. I can't stand 'moral' people thinking they can steamroll the opinions of others. If these old crooks were to be caught swimming for all their worth on a Sunday afternoon I too would take much glee in ridiculing their hypocrisy IP: Logged |
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Mk10 225th Pilot |
posted 01-22- 01:23 PM
"You're right Smokey. Conservatives do care how people lead their lives and try to convince people that there is a better way. They prefer not to sit silently and watch America destroy itself through drugs, teenage pregnancies, single parenthood, 2nd rate public schools where lousy teachers are protected by unions" "Liberals on the other hand don't give a damn how you lead, or destroy, your life as long as you pay your taxes and vote for them. The liberal mantra is "if it feels good, do it" and to hell with the consequences" With all due respect Jerry, seriously, if you feel that this is how people who are called "liberals" by people like you actually think, I'm here to tell you, you're more full of shit than a Christmas goose. I don't know what cryogenic lab you just unfroze in, but Joseph McCarthy is dead, and Roy Cohn too, of AIDS. To suggest that ANYONE, liberal or conservative, green or libertarian, would be happy to sit back and watch America destroy itself through drug use, unwanted pregnancies and single parenthood, and would actually feel that "if it feels good do it" is a sane concept to live life by, as long as you pay taxes and vote Democratic, is the view of a truly twisted mind. I know we all get a little carried away here, and I am probably guilty as much if not MORE than anyone, but that really kind of shocked me there. I think you're confusing differences of opinion with apathy. I'm sorry...didn't mean to get carried away...I just had visions that you would think that simply because I am what most Paranoid Republicans call a "liberal," that I would say to my sixteen year old daughter, "Hey, I don't care if you're strung out on drugs, pregnant, and stupid, just make sure and pay your taxes, and vote liberal!" Okay, rant mode over. Again, apologies to all (even Jerry!) if I over-reacted. I just really think you guys need to check yourselves if you think ANY liberal REALLY feels that way. Just wanted to make sure it was just more Paranoid Republican Bullshit! ------------------ IP: Logged |
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Jerry Pilot |
posted 01-23- 10:56 PM
>To suggest that ANYONE, liberal or conservative, green or libertarian, would be happy to sit back and watch America destroy itself through drug use, unwanted pregnancies and single parenthood, and would actually feel that "if it feels good do it" is a sane concept to live life by, as long as you pay taxes and vote Democratic, is the view of a truly twisted mind. Let's take a little quiz MK. What group in the United States best fits the above description? What group suffers the most from rampant drug use, teenage pregnancies and single parenthood? Along with the highest school dropout rate, crime rate and incarceration rate? Got the answer? If not let me give you another clue. This group has received more "lip service", big government "help", and money from the liberals in government than any other faction of our society, and in return this group votes for Democrats 90% of the time in election after election. Now, why do 90% of this group feel more comfortable in the party of liberals if liberals are truely intollerant of, or at least willing to stop, this kind of destructive behavior? Oh sure, liberals "real liberals" will say how terrible it is, but what have they done about stopping it? All they have done is "victimize" the black community, taken away all it's self respect and replaced it with government hand-outs. I guarantee you, the minute blacks start voting Republican, your liberal politicians will close the money pipeline to the inner city in a heartbeat. Look at the anti-religious fervor by liberals because of the religious right. If most Christains voted Democratic you would still see prayer in the schools and probably government support of church schools. Why do you think the hedonistic Hollywood community is so liberal? Because as long as they keep sending their money to the Democrats and participate in Democratic fund raisers they know the liberals will not condemn them for their life styles. Mk, I am NOT a religous person but I know a raw deal when I see one. Liberals despise Christains and love the black community only because of the way they vote. In the eyes of a liberal, morality and behavior is not a litmus test for liberal political support. IP: Logged |
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Mighty General |
posted 01-24- 01:59 AM
I have to side with Mk10 on this one, Jerry. Your portrayal of liberals is far too simplistic. Nobody is sitting back and letting these bad things happen. There's no "master plan" to destroy America. Real life is a bit more complicated than that. IP: Logged |
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Jerry Pilot |
posted 01-24- 03:12 PM
I think you're both missing the point. I didn't say, nor do I believe, that there is a "master plan to destroy America". That certainly is not the intent of liberals. However, IMO if their vision of America were to succeed we would, in effect, be destroyed. I am talking about a vision which includes: ACLU inspired acceptance of and protection of destructive personal behavior, a cradle-to-grave dependancy on the government for personal survival in the form of food, shelter, medical care, child care, transportation, education, retirement, etc., a weakened military, a soft on crime attitude that criminals are the real victims, an incentive killing tax structure, growth stiffling over regulation of business, irresponsible environmental regulations such as "protecting" our forests by making them totally inaccessible to everyone but a few young, fit, well equiped back packers, the further deterioration of our public schools, and the cheapening of human life by the unabated support of all forms of abortion as a common form of birth control, and support of assisted suicide. These are not just speculative issues. They are very real issues in today's society and have all come about as the result of liberal politicians try to "social engineer" America. These are all very real trends which, if continued, will result in the destruction of those principles which made this country great in the first place.
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JT Pilot |
posted 01-24- 04:13 PM
Jerry, I think the point is that there are nimrods in both parties. To take the most extreme points of view and attribute them to Liberalism in general isn't accurate or fair. For instance, what if I said that Timothy McVeigh is representative of your average Conservative? As much as I dislike Conservatism, such a statement would not be fair or accurate by any stretch. [This message has been edited by JT (edited 01-24-2001).] IP: Logged |
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Jerry Pilot |
posted 01-24- 04:37 PM
JT, I'm not referring to nut-case fanatics like that environmentalist whacko in Montana who sent the mail bombs. They don't scare me as far as ruining the country. (But you can bet there is some ACLU lawyer looking for some way to get him off). It's the liberals in positions of power and influence that are taking us down this slippery slope. IP: Logged |
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JT Pilot |
posted 01-24- 04:46 PM
That's what I'm telling you, though. Most of what you have on that list above represents the most extreme points of view. Also, some of the things on your list are the kind of rhetoric Conservatives use to misrepresent Liberalism. For instance, if I am against the death penalty (and I am), does that make me "soft on crime"? Of course not... I am against the death penalty because I don't think it's right. But a Conservative might use the fact that I'm against the death penalty to make an argument that I am soft on crime... again, not fair or accurate. IP: Logged |
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Lothar Pilot |
posted 01-24- 04:49 PM
Jerry, sign me up as a wacko who thinks that protecting our national forests means that people won't be able to drive their SUV into remote locations. IP: Logged |
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DanW Pilot |
posted 01-24- 06:30 PM
Jerry, What's your Klan Kard number anyway? IP: Logged |
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Jerry Pilot |
posted 01-24- 07:38 PM
Fuck you DanW! (But I mean that in the nicest way) It's you liberal Democrates who have sold the blacks down the river!! After kissing your liberal asses for 60 years look where it's got them!!! For today's blacks slavery still exists, they just have a new massa', the Democratic Party!! You should define racism by results, not some vacuous bias that Conservatism = Racism. IP: Logged |
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DanW Pilot |
posted 01-24- 08:43 PM
Hey, how come I'm in Texas, but you're the redneck? Oh don't worry. I have relatives that live in Vidor, Texas too. I know the secret hand-shake *wink* Hey, they are trying to remove the Confederate War Hero Statues from the University of Texas...those damn 'spooks' will get what they deserve. Why don't you come down here and fight for the rights of the Heros of the Confederacy? Cause most folks down here could give a shit less. Why do you think I'm liberal anyway? Cause I don't agree with your 'back to the 50's' policies? When Conservative weasels get backed in the corner all they can yell is 'Liberal'. Let's hum the Leave it to Beaver song and listen to Mc Carthy. IP: Logged |
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Mirthain Pilot |
posted 01-24- 09:38 PM
Hey Dan, As soon as you have something intelligent to say, please sound off.. till then, shut up. You were the one complaining throughout the campaign about substandard schools and teachers in Texas.... get a grip hypocrite boy. As for the schools, my lastest post in Clinton Legacy should be seen. Synopsis: There is enough blame to throw around to everyone. Teachers, school boards and parents. Well intentioned laws that take children from good homes on the whim of a counselor. But there is one thing that the Democrats have been pushing for years, and that is that we are incapable of dealing with ourselves and that we NEED the government to rule over us. They will protect us, they will feed us and cloth us and tell us what is good and bad. Many Republicans also do this, but from the other side of the fence. different issues. Same result. I do prefer a 3rd party, but unfortunately, there isn't a good moderate one out there right now. Just to let you know.... our view of conservative and liberal are actually on the same side... the far right is anarchy. You control your own life and let others control thiers. You do what you need to survive and others do as well. The far left is totalianaristic. The government controls all and the private citizen is forced to live by only the rules the government allows them to have. Personal control vs government control. We started far more to the right than we are now. We have been slipping more and more into government control as our population grows. People don't want to lead... they want to be led. The more that we force them through law to be sheep, the more they will act like sheep. Welcome to the herd. ------------------ IP: Logged |
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Jerry Pilot |
posted 01-24- 11:21 PM
So Lothar, if no one ever gets to see and enjoy these forests, who are we protecting them for? You remind me of my mother. We would buy new furniture and she would cover it up with sheets. I'm not saying we should turn all the forests over to developers. But those "public" lands which are worth preserving should be available to the "public", in a controlled manner...like a National Park. For example, it would be a shame if the magnificent redwoods in California were blocked from public view, like Clinton has done to millions and millions of acres of public land. [This message has been edited by Jerry (edited 01-24-2001).] IP: Logged |
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Lothar Pilot |
posted 01-24- 11:33 PM
Jerry, some land should remain in a natural condition without roads and campgrounds and RV hookups scattered through it. Yes, this means that my grandmother can't go to it. It also means I can't go unless I take time off from work and buy equipment. But my friend who goes on two week backpacking trips can go, and enjoy pristine, uncrowded, natural spaces. We have a lot of beautiful land in this country (especially in the West), and part of that beauty is in it's remoteness and the solitude you can enjoy being there. Let me ask you, should there be wheelchair lifts on halfdome? Where do you draw the line? IP: Logged |
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Jerry Pilot |
posted 01-24- 11:53 PM
Ah....where to draw the line, an age old question. Isn't that what we, and generations before us, have been debating...on many issues? There is no "one" answer, only opinions. Mine is that your buddy, and the few thousand like him should have their untouched pristine forests. But not millions and millions of acres that they would never possibly see in a lifetime of backpacking. Not when our National Parks are overcrowded and people have to reserve camp sites months or years in advance. The public at large needs more recreational land and it shouldn't be tied-up by Clinton's feeble attempt to establish his legacy as the "environmental President". IP: Logged |
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DanW Pilot |
posted 01-25- 08:27 AM
"Hey Dan, As soon as you have something intelligent to say, please sound off.. till then, shut up." LOL. How's the Nazi play going anyway? Oops, you dropped a screw in the PC case...better pick it up. Soon you can be PC builder foreman. I'll talk when I want shitbrain. IP: Logged |
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Mirthain Pilot |
posted 01-25- 11:04 PM
Awww, look, Danw is getting upset again.. how cute..... As soon as you start debating and not just acting like an ass, then I will stop harrassing you Dan... till then, Shut up moron. PS Danny boy.... You are the nazi here, you are ridiculing what you don't understand and trying to force others from posting by using abuse and sophmoric attacks. Those are nazi tactics dan.. not telling someone who is acting like a spoiled child to shut up. That is disipline. Moron. As for the natural areas, the parks have no drive areas, but you can hike into the wilderness areas.... I agree with that... but Gore was going to shut them out from any access. At all. That was just wrong. He was also looking to close parks from the public entirely. My parents live on the edge of a national forest that was being looked at for that reason. I don't have a problem when the parks put limits on vehicle access, but I do have a problem with them not allowing any access at all. That is land that is available for us all to use. And just like you mentioned, it is nice to be able to hike in to the back areas and find some nice secluded places. We do need the people that are not skilled at roughing it, but would like to get away... unfortunately those areas get trashed.... sad state of affairs with people... but those that hike in are usually more careful. Note the lack of absolutes in that last sentence.. ;} ------------------ IP: Logged |
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Lothar Pilot |
posted 01-25- 11:15 PM
Are you sure about not allowing any access at all? That doesn't sound right. Also, I was responding to Jerry's comment about only young, fit people being able to access these public lands. Jerry, you said overcrowding was a big problem and that's why we need more campgrounds. That hasn't been my experience unless you are talking about Yosemite or the Grand Canyon, and in those cases it's just because they are so unique. Otherwise I've found a lot of good, easily accessible camping areas which are not crowded. IP: Logged |
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Jerry Pilot |
posted 01-26- 12:12 AM
Oregon State Parks get booked every summer. You have to make reservations in January or February to get the best spots. California is the same way, and not just Yosemite, try Sequoia or Kings Canyon National Parks. And it's in the West where Clinton is locking people out. Of course, we can't forget the poor Spotted owl either. IP: Logged |
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DanW Pilot |
posted 01-26- 06:39 AM
huh? Did I miss something? I am mad? LOL Sorry bud, the grade school insults aren't working. Besides, there hasn't been any debate in here in a long time. Just a bunch of old, pissed off Conservatives getting harrased by a bunch of kids for their amusement. Now who is the Moron? IP: Logged |
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DanW Pilot |
posted 01-26- 06:43 AM
Oh yeah, please try structuring your posts in some sort of intelligible and legible manner (I know those are big words, but you can look them up in the dictionary). It would be a lot easier to get a laugh out of your drivel if it was easer to comprehend. Now, get back to work, we have 20 more PC's to build before we can go home today..*crack* IP: Logged |
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Smokey Pilot |
posted 01-26- 09:42 AM
I take offense to that, I'm an old pissed off democrat. This is a classic example of how republicans When you cut through the bullshit the real [This message has been edited by Smokey (edited 01-26-2001).] IP: Logged |
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