posted 05-19- 02:22 PM               

It's unfortunate, but hardly shocking, that the Government is attempting to defend its proposed radical remedies, which include breaking up Microsoft.

...

In addition to carving up the Company, the Government wants to force Microsoft to disclose its intellectual property and trade secrets to direct competitors like Sun Microsystems, Oracle, and IBM. Such a mandate is the equivalent of telling Coca-Cola it has to share its secret formula with Pepsi, as well as every other cola company in existence.

...

The Government's proposals also would force Microsoft to allow computer manufacturers to add to and delete from Microsoft's copyrighted Windows product, and still market the modified end-result as "Windows." That's like allowing all of Coke's distributors to alter Coke in any way they want, but still permitting them to call it Coke. This will, in no way, benefit consumers; it will only create confusion and rob Microsoft of its highly valuable intellectual property.

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If this happens... it will mark the beggining of a very sad thing

posted 05-19- 02:30 PM            

I'm not touching this thread.

posted 05-19- 06:41 PM               

I hear what your saying man.

But heres a situation for ya.

K theres stores around here like 7 elevens.

Called mikes marts anyways.

Thats where I buy all my junk food, LOL
as a matter of fact when I move around I always try to get near a 24 hour one. LOL

Anyways. They sell chips.

They used to sell Hostess/frito lays AND humpty dumpty. Those might not be brands you buy but it doesn't matter.

Anyways, Now they only sell Hostess/frito lays. Seem that hostess bought up all the self space and pushed humpty right out of all mikes marts.

You might say GREAT thats free market at work, They had the money or clout to force mikes to only carrry one brand.

TO me on the other hand that SUCKS ASS.

My fav kinda chip is barbecue. And Hostess/frito only makes a Sweet barbecue thats good but kinda sickening after a while.

So now to get my coveted HD bbq I have to go to another store and get there before 11pm cause its not open all night.

On top of that The shelf space and flavor selection for $2 bags of Hostess chips is shrinking and the $3 (there is more in the bag but thats not the point) bag space and flavors are growing in an effort to make us spend more money.

Mean while HD chips which IMO are better are cheaper and the same size they have always been with MORE flavors.

So anyways, Free market isn't Always that great for the consumer.

Namely me Sp@nky the candy hound.

BTW ya gotta love how I turned this in to a conversation about Junk food. LOL

posted 05-20- 12:08 AM               

When consumers suffer changes happen. Maybe competition comes in to fill the need... there is always someone waiting in the wings for a chance to enter the market.

But it is a daily war, and sometimes casualties are taken. It may not feel fair at times, and maybe it isn't, but overall it has proven itself to be the best system ever put into practice.

posted 05-20- 01:10 AM               

Yeah but SV if HD or any other chip maker wanted to get back on those shelves how would they do it?

Like if you made a new cola, It would be practicaly impossible to get any market share in most stores. IMPOSSIBLE.

I'm not saying we should protect the companys that might be too weak to compete. I'm saying we need to protect the general public from companies raping them.

K so you belive that everything thats not breaking a normal law is fair game right?

Lets say that there was no anticompetitive laws.

Then Nissan motor company pays a city to ban ANY car dealerships except Nissan and there hi end lines (can't rememmber the name lexus?) And the city in return gets a HUGE boost to its budget in return.

Sucks to be anyone in that town that doesn't want to buy a Nissan.

Laugh if you want but thats happening right now.

In stores like mine. And in some colleges. Coke pays off the college and the college only lets Coke sell its products and kicks out pepsi.

In the end it sucks to be a pepsi drinker.

posted 05-20- 02:56 AM               

Ah, Sv knows my stand already, hehe!! I am a liberaservative mid-road redemocommuindesocialist with right wing left handedness; I'm against anything I am not in charge of, and I hate it when THAT happens!!!

I still think EVERYthing should be free to all...and everyone should pay me to see that it is!!

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nealg=FC=

posted 05-20- 03:34 AM            

Everywhere you see a Coke machine, what do you see beside it? A Pepsi machine..

Hey, I have nothing against any company trying to gain a 100% market share. Shit, if I had my way, I would paint the aircraft in every flight sim.. Microsoft didn't innovate to get into the position that they are in. They broke the law. They were found guilty. They must pay. I don't neccesarily think that they must be broken up, but they should pay a hefty penalty for what they have been found guilty of.

posted 05-20- 03:39 AM               

The beer companies here got fined for the same thing recently for paying to keep competitors products out of bars.

TS

posted 05-20- 03:52 AM               

Exactly Tail, In other words they didn't get to be the only cola on campus because they were a better product.

If SV is a "hard line" Capitalist then I guess he will have to get use to no choices in his purchasing habits.

posted 05-20- 09:45 AM               

Spanky's diet sucks, and we need to be more concerned about his nutrition. We can keep ignoring it, hoping it will go away, or we can face this thing togehter, and help Spanky learn to "eat right, for life."

So sue me, damn it, I care,

posted 05-20- 10:21 AM               

"I am a liberaservative mid-road redemocommuindesocialist with right wing left handedness; I'm against anything I am not in charge of, and I hate it when THAT happens!!!"

BWAHAHAHAHAHA

And ya know, Mk, I think you're on to something. Maybe you could volunteer to be Spanky's personal online dietician.

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-=TheReaper=-

posted 05-20- 12:21 PM               

If you can't take the heat of being in the minority then keep your mouth shut. There is nothing wrong with having a belief without condemning those who believe differently. It's not your belief that people are giving you shit for, it's your proselytizing.

posted 05-20- 01:31 PM            

Excuse me you berry picking, carrot crunching, pale skinned, weakling fuck. If you don't eat enough meat and protein you will die.

Some minority groups are just hell bent to get their ideas out and noticed and to hell with the majority. Now I have nothing against aethiests, but if there really is a God, you guys are up shit creek...

And Jerry,

posted 05-20- 04:33 PM               

Smokey, proselytize - "To induce someone to join one's own political party or to espouse one's doctrine. To convert a person from one belief, doctrine, cause or faith to another". At least according to the American Heritage dictionary. (I had to look up the spelling so the dictionary was handy.)

posted 05-20- 04:42 PM               

Yeah MK my eating habits are horrible.

Dan, Yeah some groups are like that, Just don't try to say that its ONLY the minority groups. Large organizations are just as bad for it. If not worse cause they have the money to support full time "converters"

posted 05-20- 05:09 PM               

Since when did we start spelling "atheist" as "aetheist"? Hmm. Anyway, sorry if it seems like I'm trying to force my beliefs on anybody. I didn't think I was... but hey, I get other people's beliefs forced on me all the time. But nobody's really forcing anything on you here. I just want people to see reason, that's all.

"but if there really is a God, you guys are up shit creek..."

Dan, Pascal's Wager doesn't work.
"What if..."
What if the muslims are right? The catholics? Jehovah's witnesses? If you use that rationale, it seems there's a very good chance you're up shit creek too.

You don't believe in Zeus, Mithra, Odin, Isis. They're all just silly myths, right? Exactly. But there was a time when people actually believed them... people that would die for their beliefs just as the crusaders did and just as islamic fundamentalist terrorists do today.

I just believe in one less god than you do.
As to being an atheist, you're already part-way there. Just ask yourself why you believe what you do.

I saw a bunch of Nation of Islam guys at my college with a sign saying "THERE IS NO GOD BUT ALLAH." Well, they were part-way right too. I'm no eco-freak, but I think that sign could have been recycled!

Oops, there I go proselytizing again

Weren't we talking about social systems?
From there to religion, just like that.
BTW, Bill Gates IS Satan

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-=TheReaper=-

posted 05-20- 06:33 PM               

I don't know...it just came to me!!

Allright, this may be my cynicism showing, but throughout this entire thing, my main question has been - just who is this, our 'Government', really trying to 'protect'? I am somewhat ambivalent over whether or not Microsoft is, or is not, a Monopoly. The IRS is a monopoly; I don't see another agency out there collecting U.S. taxes. Just who do some of these changes benefit the most? The individuals who vote, pay taxes, and spend the money they earn to keep the economy going? Or the competition in business? Just who outnumbers whom? ( The inclusion of the word 'numbers' is rather a give away, isn't it? )

Money talks...it's old, simple, a veritable cliche now....but it holds true anywhere, anytime. The problem as I see it is that it isn't MY money talkin'....cause I keep tellin' it to shut up!

It is such a vicious circle, hehe!! I only wish I could believe that anything done by the political machine was for my benefit - but experience has shown me that it isn't.

Then again, I am an idiot....and just a bit greedy, too. If I could get a share of Microsoft's product without having to pay them for it, hey!! I'm there!!

this ambiguous message has been made possible through the generous contributions of no one, no where, and I completely deny that any agent of the United States or any of it's non-profit agencies stood here and held a gun to my head while I wrote it....

and...wait...wait!! I believe in Odin!! And...and...Dracula!! And, and...Godzilla!!!! ( though I don't follow Godzilla, cause one could end up in some deep doo-doo )

Med time, Nurse?? Oh, gooody!!

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nealg=FC=

posted 05-20- 06:51 PM               

The give me a break (which is a rip off of the great Andy roney) last week or maybe the week before was the guy bitching that if microsoft is a monopoly then what is the govement.

BTW I agree. I think people in the govement need to be held more accountable for there actions.

posted 05-20- 07:30 PM               

First of all, a foreign corporation would have more government scrutiny here than a domestic one. Foreign companies are here as guests with the permission of the US government, just like in any other country a company wants to operate in.

Second, unless it was just a move of their corporate registration, how are they going to get all their employees to move out of the country? Even just their HQ staff would be huge.

Third, you think Gates is going to leave that kagillion dollar home he just built on Lake Washington?

If anyone believes this then I have this wonderful bridge on San Francisco Bay I can sell you at a good price.

posted 05-20- 11:38 PM               

BTW Spank, the biggest flaw in your logic is that you think just because a market is opened up that there will be players there! What if no one can fill Microsoft's shoes? What then? If you had your way, the shelves would probably be empty... very empty...

posted 05-21- 12:00 AM               

SV. I was trying to avoid talking about microsoft cause its such a complicated topic.

I thought chips would be easier

The thing is SV that Hosstess isn't gaining or keeping market share by having a better product but by bulling and paying off people.

Maybe we should just let people in the goverment threaten or buy votes?

I totally agree that people should have the the right to kill themselves too.

posted 05-21- 12:08 AM               

Did I ever tell you guys YOU'RE NUTS?

Oh yeah, I think I did... hehe.

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-=TheReaper=-

posted 05-21- 12:27 AM               

I do aree that sometimes things can get a little crazy in with the system, and I do agree on gov intervention when needed, I just strongly disagree with the gov here, I honestly believe that MS is NOT a monopoly - and my reasoningg is very technical, but criticaly important to the case and the ultimate spirit of the anit-trust laws.

People truly under estimate the dramatic effect such extream steps against Miscrosoft will have. Not just because of the suffering of MS, but more because of the signal this will send to the tech industry. It really will have a strong impact, It may very well change my world in a very big way. And it will not just effect the people I mention, but the companies they run/own and the people who make their living there.

Amazing things are happening in the e-comemrce world right now... things that will have a great effect on the future. Philosophies are being tested, business models are up for review - each day comrads and rivals fall! It is fun... capitolism is good for the human spirit.. the opposite of stifeling imprisionment! The battle for market share and profitability spawns creativity and creativity solves problems, and solutions increase the standard of living... and standard of living gives dignity to man!

posted 05-21- 01:08 AM               

nurse? nurse?

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nealg=FC=

posted 05-21- 02:00 AM               

Actually neal they beat ya too it.

Well SV as long as we can agree on somthing.

I'm of the opinion that whats good for the common man is somewhere in the middle of socialism and capitism. And not to far to either side.

posted 05-21- 08:07 PM               

And hell, this is the internet age, if you don't want microsft, go get something else, there's plenty of free search engines/ IE5 type proggies ot there that aint gettin screwed for being anti competative...

shit if I had a company, I'd screw the competition aswell, if they aint good enough to keep up, let em.. or make em die!

posted 05-22- 11:55 AM               

There are new, innovative markets that Microsoft is totally ignoring... for example, 24 hours ago, I was in the train on my way back from my weekend trip in the mountains. I learned about the new patch by reading this site on my Nokia 7110 cellphone through Google.com's WAP search engine. Then I checked my email on wap.yahoo.fr.

Microsoft won the desktop war? Let's get rid of the PC. Microsoft's monopoly will dissapear just like IBM's monopoly on mainframes was made irrelevant by UNIX workstations and PCs.

So who cares if the US goverment punishes Microsoft or not. If it takes two years to settle the case, it will not be worth the effort anymore. There will be no more monopoly, or a monopoly on a fading market.