posted 04-04- 10:03 AM               

Build a better mouse trap, increase the prosperity and productivity of your country, then get shot down by the liberal bastards who want everyone to have exactly the same.

There once was a guy named Bill Gates who, by his own efforts and genius, beat the big blue giant.

Today, those who can not succeed by their own means whine like babies to get a fair chance. You spineless pieces of crap! Now that you are winning your fairy fight, I can't wait to see your wonderful solutions!

Why do we let them hinder the visions of great men? They have no vision, only the smug attitude that they should be successful just because they show up.

We do not grade effort, only results. This is the real basis for freedom. Those who fail will be crushed one way or another.... time will tell.

posted 04-04- 10:38 AM               

Although I havn't really been following it very closely.

This should get interesting

posted 04-04- 11:21 AM               

Besides when JP Getty had to break up his monopoly in the Oil industry he said it was fabulous for him.

It is a mean nothing ruling. The market will take care of it self.

If you want to see over government involvement in business try Canada.

------------------
Kopper

Fortunae Nihil
(Nothing to Chance)
OPPs Making SDOE a Dangerous place.
One plane at a time.

posted 04-04- 11:28 AM               

I guess I look at the Microsoft thing in a "greedy/personal" perspective ...

I don't mind MS sticking IE in everything ... I just would like the "choice". Nevermind the fact that I use IE ... and I understand I "can" install NS or Opera or what ever and it'll work perfectly (well ..sort of) ... I just want my "options" open and not forced on me.

I see Microsoft and all I can see is them saying to us the consumers ... "Screw your right to choice and conform to our opinion!"

To digress further ...

I personally would rather see Windows stream-lined to a pure "operating-system" ... With nothing but the bare essentials. where you DL' what ever particular module you need for what ever given task. I don't REALLY need a browser .. text editor .. task manager .. multi-media .. calender .. paint program crap on my gaming machine!

Give me a clean OS and I'll show you what happened to you precious system resources!

posted 04-04- 12:16 PM               

------------------
Kopper

Fortunae Nihil
(Nothing to Chance)
OPPs Making SDOE a Dangerous place.
One plane at a time.

posted 04-04- 12:32 PM               

Did Bill Gates say this about IBM? Yep, and he fucked them over! Who's stuck with IBM now? It's your world, try taking control of it instead of letting other people do all the work. They will just get the credit and piss you off.

We are not stuck with anything, Microsoft just kicks ass and other people are just upset that it is MS and not them.

Communism evil. It results in total lack of freedom, inhumane standard of living, loss of all hope, and brings out all that is bad in people. It was built on good intentions but failed because it is not based on a correct thought process. It assumes an incorrect definition of man and go against some of the most basic truths about life.

How long will people's guilt cause them to do stupid things? Who will shoot Old Yeller?

posted 04-04- 12:49 PM            

Even the large computer makers like Compaq and such said that you do not want to piss off Microsoft.

I hope they fall just as fast as they went to the top.

posted 04-04- 01:21 PM               

"Workers unite, you have nothing to lose but your chains!"

------------------
Kopper

Fortunae Nihil
(Nothing to Chance)
OPPs Making SDOE a Dangerous place.
One plane at a time.

posted 04-04- 01:33 PM               

Besides ...ever heard the saying "Bad sex is better than no sex at all"? ...

posted 04-04- 02:19 PM               

If someone could do better, they should - people will buy it. Why did IBM not inherit the Earth? There is all ready plenty of competition for MS, linux, Oracle, etc. Look at MS SQL 7.0? A big attempt to match Oracle. I feel they won, but they had a big fight on their hands. Still Ms SQL as a long way to go to win market share in the financial world and data warehousing.

If you think there is no alternative to MS because MS is evil, you are just ignorant of the facts.

Also DanW, I agree that the law was broken. I disagree with the law. Also, even if one agrees with the law, let the punishment fit the crime. Destroying MS is not the answer. Bill is willing to change his ways where they are in violation.

I agree Kopper, wazup with all the reds? They will never win in the end anyway. Ambitious people will get ahead and make a better word anyway they can. With capitalism that means business and better products, with communism that means simple corruption.

posted 04-04- 02:24 PM               

What the Fuck are you talking about? If you think that Bill Gates is not a very hard working guy than you are more full of shit than I thought.

Compared to the competition MS is dirt cheap. I built my whole e-comm company using MS products. If I would have used competative products I would have spent up to ten times as much, maybe even much, much more. Also I would need a staff about 2 or 3 times my existing staff. That is real $$$ saved there.

People just do not know the facts, it is too bad.

-Sv

posted 04-04- 02:29 PM               

Success = Greed

More Success = Greedier

Absolute Success = Absolute Greed

Successful Person = Scumbag

Failure = Good

Poverty = Good

Rich = Bad

Ambition = Bad

Having more money than Siggi = Bad

Now I get it. Thank you Siggi.

posted 04-04- 02:52 PM               

Also don't forget the Siggi-nomic rule that supply and demand should not set market value, all things have an intrinsic value that is obvious to everyone.

posted 04-04- 02:55 PM            

Here is my logic:

Guns - cornerstone of democracy. Perhaps some of you should do some Constitutional research. Guns don't kill people......prick bastards kill people.

Bill Gates - the Anti-Christ.

Bill had no vision of the internet being what it is. MS didn't anticipate the internet would grow so fast.....Netscape did. Bill did bad things to make sure Microsoft came out on top. Hence, integrating IE with windows........thereby FORCING 90% of the homecomputer market to have Microsoft's web browser.......Now, talk about communism.......FORCING I said.

If you guys think anti-trust laws are Communism, then maybe you should either take a US Govt. class and review just why we have the Sherman anti-trust act. Maybe you folks are happy in the world of the easily hackable email, virus loving office suites and blue screens of death...now THAT'S innovation.

posted 04-04- 03:02 PM            

And thinking that good old George W. is gonna do something about it....Wrong..not gonna happen. He is governor of Texas. He hasn't done shit. Texas has a weak plural executive. The Lt. Governor has more power than George does.

George can't save Bill!!!

posted 04-04- 03:02 PM               

I just can't shed tears for Bill Gates. I guess I don't view him as the altruistic fellow some seem to. Bill is clearly for Bill, but why does that suprise anyone.

I certainly don't fear the breakup of MicroSoft either. I remember people crying about how the break-up of Ma Bell would herald the end to telephone communications, and drive costs up, etc. I don't know about you guys, but my long distance is cheaper than ever before.

So, I guess my take is...if you know you are breaking the law, then get ready to take your medicine fellas, cause sooner or later you will. You can't choose which laws to follow. At least most of us can't.

If your gonna dance you gotta pay the band, if your gonna rob, you gotta pay the man.

posted 04-04- 03:32 PM               

Bill should be for Bill, that is the American way.

I am quite sure this bothers Bill as it bothers all people who love prosperity and know that we owe a free marketplace for this great standard of living we have.

Take away incentive and productivity will fall. Bill Gates would have bailed years ago if he was only in it for personal gain of the $ sort... as was mentioned above... he has more money than even I could spend. At this point I imagine that he is just playing the game... trying to stay number one... it is much harder than anyone gives credit.

Trust me, this has a large effect on the business world. Right now people are making very important decisions about their companies... and now is looking like a bad time for good businesses. As they conserve and bail out (leadership) productivity and advancement will dwindle. You asked for a recession, you may receive.

If this happens then people who create jobs will turn into people looking for jobs. The world is run by real people, not by a mysterious "them." This case sets a terrible precedence: succeed at your own risk.

Don't forget, MS is a public company... it is OUR company and you are selling it up the river.

It is like the planepack... everyone fucking gripes and the people who work just end up feeling like, "why should I?" Then there is no one to do it.

Be thankful for what others do for you.

-Sv

posted 04-04- 04:32 PM               

DanW,

posted 04-04- 05:09 PM               

It can go 2 ways. When they broke up AT&T it actually became more powerful. Or it can fragment like the above paragraph.

Yes they (not he, they) broke laws. Do you think for one instant the competition wouldnt have done the same thing if they had though of it first?!? Get a grip!

I won't touch the Commie thing. Non sequitor(sp?)

------------------
Snickers
=FC=

posted 04-04- 05:19 PM               

As far as the argument that the other guys in the same position would have done the same thing. Thats the kind of lame stuff I use to tell my parents....right before I got a spanking.

I'm not nearly as passionate about this as you guys are. One way or the other. My life, with or without Bill and Micro Soft will motor on. Really, it will.

posted 04-04- 06:39 PM               

Isn't this the third or forth such decision against him ? What has been the net affect of the previous decisions - Zip.

Of course he will exercise his constitutional right and appeal. How long will this take ? 2 - 3 years I reckon.

And so what if they split the company up like they did to AT&T. From what I have read this will increase his net profits !!

Not to mention the fact that 4 little Bill's (most likely still operating under the ONE strategic guidance) would likely do more to annex the competition than can be done now.

Anyway, just my two cents of BS.

Cheers,

AGAS 5

posted 04-04- 06:58 PM            

Guns are the cornerstone of Democracy? What? I shoot my way into the voting booth? What's the relationship? Western Europe is democratic and they don't have near the guns nor the murders that we do. What's their cornerstone?"

Give me a fucking break. Where are you from? Do you even know what the Constitution of the US is? You must not be familiar with the right to bear arms of the Bill of Rights. Did it ever occur to you that maybe the only reason there are Democracies in Western Europe is because certain other countries, who were free at the time, took their guns and won? Forget about that little event some 50+ odd years ago? You know....WW2?

Yeah..that one. See, those democracies exist today, because the democracies of the time had guns see. Or can you see?

I think you should seriously think about taking an American history course and read the part about the right to bear arms and how it came about. Of course, you will eventually get to the part where the imperialist white settlers used their guns to slaughter hundreds of thousands of native Americans..but just skip over that part. That's the part we dont want anyone to see.

You dont have guns so you can go into a voting booth and tell people how to vote. You have guns so that a town militia can exist and the government by the people for the people can be overthrown when it no longer represents the people. You also have guns so that no federal soldier can ever be quartered in your house for any reason.

Trust me, its in the book. There is a lot of usefull information in there too.

posted 04-04- 11:35 PM               

Despite what MS has done for my home state in the way of growth, programs and employment, I believe my views on this subject would remain the same if I lived elsewhere.

First, the finding of fact was done by a judge who up untill the trial had never even used a personal computer, let alone surf the net or use any tech related products. Does this make him a fair judge? A judge who hasnt a clue on what I as PC user needs or wants. Hmm, not really. Does Janet Reno, hehe, ya right!

Does MS lesson your ability to choose? Not really. There is a little free OS that you can download, you know that cute little penguin. But you say wait they have forced me to use Windows, because it comes loaded on the PC I bought. Well remove it and install something else, your pc will still work . Thats pretty simple. I think in general that the average pc user, when they buy a "pre made" pc, that when they un box it and plug it in, they just want it to work. They want all the little add on apps that have become a Windows standard. Could you imangine buying a PC for the first time and getting it home and finding out that all you have is a straight OS with no other apps? Hmm, now I have to go download or buy all this other stuff that I might want, DOH, but the Justice Department made MS take IE out of windows. Now I have to run back to the local software hut and by a browser, then maybe I might be able to get on the net and search for the other apps I need. What a potential hassle this could create for new users or less savy users. Thanks MS. Reno.

As for the whole browser business, that a bunch of crap aswell. The last PC I bought actually came with both NS and IE installed, so I didnt see the problem. I chose not to use NS and promptly deleted it. As if I had choose NS over IE, I could have deleted it and Windows would have worked just fine. Not merly the fact that at IE is truly the better browser (atleast for now) I still had the choice to choose what I wanted to use. Is it an intergrated part of Windows, sure it is. They designed it to work along with Windows. Whats the big deal.

I think that most PC users understand enough about their PC and computers to choose to use one app over another. We dont need the Government to help us make these choices. I think in the long run that as someone else has said, the market will handle the future of the Tech industry. Will MS remain a giant? Maybe, maybe not. Sooner or later something better will come along that wont include Bill Gates. Till then MS really does offer the most bang for the buck to consumers and the best quality sofware for the buck. Make something the truly is better or more user friendly to use then they will come. Sheesh I didnt need my tax dollars spent to tell me that! What a complete waste.

Did MS opperate in an unfair way. Possibly. But if you were in the same situation, would you have acted any different? Its a cruel world. So say the MS did some illegal acts, aside from some legal fines, would breaking up MS really make this a better world for the consumer. Not really. Also by the time the appeals are over, would this still be in the interest of the people? Again not really. In all it would have been a huge waste of tax payer dollars. Also by the time this is all over , and even now, most of these issus have or will have already resolved themselves. It a fast industry. Certainly faster that our Government.

The Governments request to have MS release thier source code is also a big crock. Thats like telling Coke that they have to give Pespi thier recipe, because they feel that Coke has an unfair market share. How does this help the public. Hmm, lots of windows clones. Woo hoo! I cant wait. Hmm, maybe Parsoft should release thier code to the public too I feel they have an unfair advantage over my start up. Is this really the key to inovation..? Not really IMO. This is almost as bad as restricter plate racing in Nascar

So what Im I trying to say, not much I suppose Aside from maybe software designers, how many of you have had your lives ruined by MS? Have they really caused you not to be able to choose? Probably not.

I do like Zur's idea of maybe having a little more choice in how Windows installs its apps. Maybe a "advance" choice during the install might be nice. But their again, I remove all the apps I dont use, so its not really enough of a hassle for me, let alone enough to have MY Government decide for me.

Well thats my 2 cents, oh wait make that 1 cent, Ms. Reno took the other

------------------
Zoycite 33rd~GS

visit The War Paint Factory

posted 04-05- 01:12 AM               

quote:

---

You dont have guns so you can go into a voting booth and tell people how to vote. You have guns so that a town militia can exist and the government by the people for the people can be overthrown when it no longer represents the people.

---

Dan, does that mean it's time to overthrow the government?
Unfortunately I think we wouldn't do so well.

These days I don't buy the "by the people, for the people" stuff because it's obviously not happening. We think we have a democracy but that's a joke.

What we need is an absolute dictator (namely, me) My first action as dictator will be to sign a treaty with His Majesty King Siggi the First of England!

Jerry, the right to bear arms is not intended to put guns in the hands of criminals, children, or irresponsible adults.
Would you rather non law-abiding citizens be the only ones who owned guns? If guns were outlawed, first of all you'd be breaking the law by owning one. Secondly, guns would still be readily available to criminals on the black market and if somehow they couldn't get ahold of them, they would be smuggled or illegaly manufactured. Ever heard of the Prohibition?

------------------
-=TheReaper=-

posted 04-05- 01:43 AM               

Secondly (and on the other hand), I don't think that its reasonable for people to get so pissed off about MS. OK, there are some things you maybe wouldn't completely agree with, if so just find an alternative. Don't want Word? There's always VI, emacs, etc. Don't like Windows? MacOS, Linux, BeOS are out there. However, don't start knocking on the company like they're out to screw you. Actually, I work at MS, on Microsoft Project. Our team is about 100 people, and let me tell you, we bust our butts to get a good product out the door. You have to remember, MS is run at the base level by the dev, test and PGM teams. These are filled with smart people (don't ask me how I got a job) who have drive to ship quality, innovative products. Nobody (that I know of) sits around thinking how to screw folks over, or destroy the competition.
So, think of IE as a "feature" of the OS that somebody thought would be really cool, but went wrong. If that bothers you, buy elsewhere. However, think twice before you rag on a company like its a band of pirates.

posted 04-05- 07:22 AM            

It's pointless to argue with you. Gun control freaks scare me. I hope you don't vote. I really do suggest you take a history class or a government class.

How the hell do you know what I am good at? I post a different opinion about MS and gun control and you flame me like that.

Dont worry about the painting planes.....I don't do it anymore. I sincerely hope that you dont use any of my skins either.

[This message has been edited by DanW (edited 04-05-2000).]

posted 04-05- 07:58 AM               

Crap boys. Slow down a bit. I take a day off the forum and now look at this thread. Its insane.

Good work. Lots of good reading.

K I wouldn't say that communism is the perfect system. But I sure don't think that the so called USA democracy is doing all that well either. Maybe I'm more of something in between. I don't think you could really lable my thoughs on how a country should be run but I sure wouldn't base it on the American system. Course us humans are so flawed that no system will ever work completely.

On a side note. I have a little Theory, you guys know that perpetual motion is impossible. Well I say everyone having decent living conditions is impossible too. Everyone in richer countrys like the US, Canada, Western europe and parts of asia is really just taking advantage of all the poorer countrys. The only reason we can buy that VCR or any other toy at a decent price is because someone in some other country is living in poverty making $5s a week. Its pretty damn sad really.

Just a random thought.

About the whole MS thing. Why is it that every time I install windows It asks me if I want to install those stupid online services, I Say no and it always does? Why is that?

And about installing what ever OS you want. What a joke. Like anymore the 1% of the US population could actually do that? And as far as I heard if you tried to sell computers with linux preinstalled MS wouldn't sell you their product. I might be wrong though. To me thats a little fucked up.

Bout the whole gun thing. Yep all you gun mongers are really going to stop your goverment from doing what ever it wants. Where are you F18s? Tanks, nukes? Cause your going need them. Even your AK 47s arn't going to do you much then.

Theres nothing wrong with gun control. It doesn't bother me. I can still buy a hunting rifle. OR HANDGUN. I might not be able to buy a fully auto gun but what good would it do me against a fully armed battalion walking through my city?

If you guys don't trust your govement then why don't you overthrow it? Thats why you have the guns right?

posted 04-05- 08:52 AM            

Gun control is sensitive issue. Guns are part of the basis on which this country was formed. Any government interferrence with a private citizen owning a gun is an infringment upon his or her rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Guns should not be tracked, and no person should have to register a firearm of any kind.

I dont know about all of you who criticize the US....it's been pretty damn good to me. I did my part and served in the armed forces and I vote. If you think the US system stinks, then I invite you to travel overseas and look at other lesser know systems of government. Try chewing gum on the streets of Singapore. Try dodging the mandatory 2 years of military service that is required for all South Korean males. Shit, go swim to Cuba and talk to Fidel.

posted 04-05- 09:36 AM               

I don't have to man. I live in Canada

You should try to convince the rest of your countrymen to vote. 49% of americans vote. 78% of Canadians do. That sure shows a real trust in your system doesn't it?

In my mind if less then half of the people are voting then its not even a Democracy.

You really think you should be able to buy, trade and sell guns like you can A pokemon card?

Thats pure stupidty.

I love the way you guys can ignore or change one part of your bill of rights and such but hold on for dear life to others.