posted 04-01- 05:19 PM               

It is ok to do a contest plane pack and know what needs to be included (see 'Contest'->'Entries') and what has been uploaded to the designated FTP site where the latest midnight on March 26 contest planes have been uploaded. It is ok to QC the pack on a clean load of SDOE and note discrepencies of the stand alone planes and the plane pack (where'd the mission briefs go?). It is ok to ask for help to get the problem check out. It is ok to fall back on a previously dismissed plan (release a zip) and eat humble pie (I like blueberry, jedi) to keep the data intact when you can't work around an issue, you know to maintain the image of the creator's name in lights (so to speak) - they took the time to test the planes and missions before entry to make sure they work as best time allotted, why take it upon yourself to diss them?

It is not ok to release an incomplete pack with known bugs without a clue as to what is supposed to be in it, and make it sound like the 'official' release. Isn't that like peeing on an electric fence? Now all the people who downloaded the official patch are wondering why is this guy upset?

It is because that he will not be ammused to see the F4U-4 be voted in as the best of a category, and the votes not counting because it isn't on the official entry list. It may or may not happen, but it can. He will not be ammused to see planes not getting voted on because obviously the creator thought it would be cute to put extended ascii characters in the mission briefs to be cute, even though they didn't, and they couldn't fix it if they tried. He will not be ammused that the previously mentioned three characters are used to garnish votes because the vote came down to added touches. He will however chuckle at every snide or bothersome comment about having to download patches because the pack wasn't the most current.

There was no way in hell I'd piss on someone's creative work when there is money at stake. There was no way in hell I'd ship a plane pack that didn't show all the planes.

Am I upset because this plane pack stepped on my toes? Maybe. Am I upset that the plane pack was half assed? Definitely. Thank goodness I didn't bother downloading it (the slice of time was eaten by my downloading of the 'Treadmarks' demo).

Siggi, stop making sense.....

Kopper, do your job and keep the developers in line...

posted 04-03- 02:54 AM               

Last time I checked I have no power or authority over anyone at this forum or in OPPs.

If the Planepack it so half assed put up or shut up. We could alway use more help.

------------------
Kopper

Fortunae Nihil
(Nothing to Chance)
OPPs Making SDOE a Dangerous place.
One plane at a time.

posted 04-03- 08:03 AM               

It seems Razor is just trying to be helpful IMO. When did this become the end of the world? I agree with Kopper, everyone is free here. Two people can even work on the same plane, who cares? Let the best one win! A free market yields the best standard of licing for all...

I do think that pushing the contest date out and allowing people to update their planes sucks ass. I worked out my plan to hit the contest date and because of some other obligations I had to do my DVIII in three days. It would have been sweet to have the extra time, but I did not plan on it, so I could not utilize the bonus time.

I don't mind that anyone took advantage of the time, now we just get better planes! But I do not think that moving out the date the way it happend was a good idea.

Also the fact that there was no contest pack the day after the contest closed kinda sucked. This should be the issue, not Razor's pack.

Will the contest ever end? Will we ever vote? Who knows... I am on to new things myself.

------------------
-Sv =FC=

WWI in SDOE!

posted 04-03- 08:34 AM               

If someone wants to confuse the crap out of everybody, then let him. If someone wants to shove their heads in the sand and assume that since they don't see something, it isn't there (or on its way), the let him. If he is going to do anything, then he had better expect to be corrected. There is common sense and he sure isn't equipped with any to have a problem because he ignored what was already going on.

I gives a damn.

I'll just go about my buisness and let the hard coded click run things while I go and find something better or make something better. I guess I shouldn't volunteer anymore to do anything since it won't be acknowledged anyways since I'm not part of the 'online' crowd. Never mind me, I am use to it around here.

posted 04-03- 10:18 AM               

Granted there are more people making planes now than flying online. I haven't had a chance to shoot down Jaguar in a long time.

------------------
Kopper

Fortunae Nihil
(Nothing to Chance)
OPPs Making SDOE a Dangerous place.
One plane at a time.

posted 04-03- 10:46 AM               

With only about 20 posting more than once. People can have different pilot names, so you might have shot Jaguar down, and not have know it. How many servers can you play on now? 400 people hardly make it a living sim (fiscally) of course, I'll be happy if anyone uses any of the crappy planes I make. Kopper, you usally were the diffinitive source on what can be made and not (you had usually shot of 'you can't make it, we are' messages to people having a go at a plane). Hell, OPP should have taken the lead on the Contest Pack from the get go so some crap head wouldn't have stabbed me in the back.

Any ignoramous could see that the official contest plane pack was being worked. The bastard probably meant to cause kaOs by his efforts. Elitist pieces of crap.

If you haven't noticed, I haven't bothered updating my site recently (last 2 weeks, maybe more) since I spent a week downloading and QC'ing a contest plane pack (initially par now a homeless zip), trouble shooting with MH for part of it. No Lost Boyds, no time. Not much time for anything. Nothing like making an effort for perfection only to be drummed out by a half-asser.

posted 04-03- 11:12 AM               

What the hell makes you the guy to ask inorder to make a pack??? Where do you get off by saying:

quote:

---

Any ignoramous could see that the official contest plane pack was being worked. The bastard probably meant to cause kaOs by his efforts. Elitist pieces of crap.

---

Well I for one get tired of waiting on people to make things and then just come up with some kind of excuse inorder not to release it. Did you think everyone was going to wait on it?? I don't think so.

quote:

---

Nothing like making an effort for perfection only to be drummed out by a half-asser.

---

Where do you get off by calling me a half-asser??? What have you contributed to this group????

Oh, the pack DOES have all the contest entries in it. I checked all the dates on the planes and none of them are past March 26.

If you give a damn so much, why didn't you release your pack before I had to do it in 2 hours?? I said I was going to do it and I did it with the time I said. I hate going online and having plane mismatches all the time, that is why I made it. Most people like it and fly with it online. It has not made anyone have mismatches that have the latest versions of the planes.

I don't think that the training mission briefings will make someone vote for this plane instead of that one. I think most people have already made up their minds on the plane they want to vote on.

Is there a point where you can say that what you contributed to the game changed the way planes are made?? Not that I recall! How many planes have you helped people with???

One last thing. I am with you SV:

quote:

---

Will the contest ever end? Will we ever vote? Who knows... I am on to new things myself.

---

posted 04-03- 11:41 AM               

It was a half-assed plane pack. You don't even have the most recent planes in the pack. You haven't a clue do you? If you would bother reading posts rather than stroking your own ego, you'd see that the official contest plane pack would be released with in the week, just as soon as some issues were worked - issues a lazy sot like you never bothered to see if there was a work-around for.

>At what point did I say it was the "OFFICIAL" contest pack. I just used the name to let people know that it had all the contest planes in it.

When someone announces 'Get the contest plane pack here', what other way can you take it? Oh and it doesn't have all the planes in it, as discussed as a matter of fact, it has planes that weren't entered into the contest at all.

>Well I for one get tired of waiting on people to make things and then just come up with some kind of excuse inorder not to release it. Did you think everyone was going to wait on it?? I don't think so.

I think they would wait for a plane pack that wasn't buggy as all get out. You were just trying to get the cheese first, you knew the plane pack was within a day of being released - I even stated that it was done as requested and needed a home, a day before you released your brick. If you weren't looking for ways to stroke your ego, you might have noticed. Have they started your fan club yet, o-great plane creator?

posted 04-03- 12:13 PM               

In the end no one really gives a shit who did what. No one owns this sim. Check your friggin ego at the door because you will take a beating if you want to take credit for anything in this sim.

So how exactly were you stabbed in the back?

------------------
Kopper

Fortunae Nihil
(Nothing to Chance)
OPPs Making SDOE a Dangerous place.
One plane at a time.

posted 04-03- 01:47 PM               

Shit Happens!

Why not ask Razor747 how you can both work together. Didn't you know several people will come up with the same idea at the same time?

Isn't nothing anyone can do about it. Like Donny Brisco would say, "Forget about it!"

------------------
Kopper

Fortunae Nihil
(Nothing to Chance)
OPPs Making SDOE a Dangerous place.
One plane at a time.

posted 04-03- 04:32 PM               

First off, the authority for the online standard page should be the www.fightersquadron.com website. I took a look there and it says the online standard is 5.2. So where is the confusion, right at the source?

MH said he would have a place to download the contest planes. Then the contest closes and suddenly, big problems and he can't centralize them all??? Go figure.

I am still waiting for the patch which won't happen since he emailed me before Christmas and said once semi-open source was in place we could finish the patch. He keeps saying the hold up is the lawyers and doing the Non-Disclosure Agreement (NDA).

I have an NDA drafted by a lawyer which I use. I offered it to MH and no response!!! Go figure, yet again.

The contest was a distraction from the patch as far as I am concerned. I would rather have the patch. Once the contest was announced everyone became an individual because greed took over.

If there is to be one central place and one authority it "ain't" going to happen. Main problem, no source code....

So let's stop taking shots at eachother. We are all trying to work together. Yes, we will have duplication of effort because no one wants the central thing. Everyone gets pissed off and does their own thing.

Right, Whirlwind.

------------------
Kopper

Fortunae Nihil
(Nothing to Chance)
OPPs Making SDOE a Dangerous place.
One plane at a time.

posted 04-03- 04:52 PM               

I was mad earlier and should not have said some of the things I did, but I can't take them back. You can make the Official Contest Plane Pack and I will host it for you if you like. Yes, I did cause some confusion, but I didn't mean to. I hope this solves the problems. Let's just stop being mad at each other and combine our resources. You have the floor.

------------------
Thanks,

James "Razor747" Smith

Check out the SDOE Flight Line! I am constantly adding new things. Click on image above to go to my site.

posted 04-03- 05:33 PM            

Come again? What greed? I see no individuals here, it's all team work. There were multiple people involved in most of the teams, so this contest was no individualistic effort. The contest didn't do jack to the patch. Harrison wasn't even envoled in the contest from a development standpoint. The contest DID double the amount of flying aircraft in the sim. Twiddling thumbs on a patch that hasn't shown up doesn't do anything. There is no greed involved, maybe just a little spirit of competition, which apparently doesn't exist anymore. You can't do anything until the NDA is drafted, so bashing the contestants is useless.

posted 04-03- 05:50 PM               

No really, tell me how you all really feel. That is why I started posting in the 'Flame Wars' section. 1) to vent, 2) to keep the moderator's happy, and 3) to allow others to vent. Good area for it.

Where do I need to upload this beauty (17MB)? I should steal your idea and break down the file so the modem challenged (like myself) can actually hope to completely download the file.

posted 04-03- 06:03 PM               

I think we need a group hug
come on, give us a hug
get over here and give us a hug
hug
hug

posted 04-03- 07:37 PM               

Seriously tho--this community struck me from the first as "nicer" than your average, everyone's an expert, argue with me and you must suck, flightsim community. Maybe try to handle some of these "conflicts" with email and a little cooperation--this really ain't a big enough niche to survive much fragmentation IMO.

------------------
--jedi--

posted 04-03- 07:52 PM               

We have No Planes...And No Headaches.

posted 04-03- 11:28 PM               

hhmmm.. but yes.. there really does seem to be an eleitist element going around.. and anything they read that they don't particuly like what do we hear... "contribute or get out" or words to that effect.. that is so lame.. infact.. thats sad, very very sad.

Still... thats life, this is a game, and I guess we're all gettin on with it the best way we see fit.

posted 04-04- 01:24 AM               

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Zoycite 33rd~GS

visit The War Paint Factory

posted 04-04- 01:40 AM               

quote:

---

Why not ask Razor747 how you can both work together.

---

Well from the way this thread was going, I thought it'd be a cold day in Hell.
I brought my Nomex suit, turns out I woulda been better off with a parka

I understand both points. I guess Whirlwind was "commissioned" by MH to put together the "official" contest pack, but I don't think everyone was aware of this, and some people were beginning to wonder if it was going to happen. So many new aircraft, just waiting to be flown online, yet they were met with so many mismatches. Razor released his "contest pack" with the intention of eliminating the mismatches from online play. He may not have been aware of Whirlwind's pending release of the "official" contest pack, and his intentions were good.

The contest was not a bad thing, and neither was Plane Pack 5.3. The most fun I've had online in SDOE was the weekend 5.3 was released. All of the new contest planes (and those that weren't entered) are testament to the power of OpenPlane, and the enthusiastic effort of the builders.

I have seen some tension recently on the board with the Plane Pack and the contest. Everyone is frustrated with mismatches and the same bugs that have plagued SDOE from the beginning. We're all pretty tired of hearing "the patch is coming soon" or "I haven't had time to work on it."

As far as helping other people, some sort of collaboration is needed and communication is an absolute must! For example, I've been updating the Dr1a lately. I asked Raider about a problem I was having putting Dirk in the triplane and he mailed me back with a fix and some suggestions. The next day I had a new SM in my mailbox with other various fixes and such (some of which I had implemented earlier that day, so we were obviously thinking along the same lines.) Today I got an e-mail from charmstar with a new model that contains various fixes and enhancements, so now I have to roll all three of these into one Anyhow the end result will be the work of Parsoft/Reaper/Raider/charmstar and who knows who else...
Seems it's really turned into a community effort. At least it's nice to know there is some interest.

What this has to do with this thread or anything else, for that matter--don't ask.

This has turned into a MONSTER of a post, so let's hope the next is short, meaningful and to the point.

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-=TheReaper=-

posted 04-04- 01:59 AM               

Good to se...er..hea...er, ah..read...ah, heck, it's been a while!!

posted 04-04- 07:26 AM               

What do you mean, you have no planes and no headaches?

I don't visit Bombs Away every day, but when I do, I see quite a few heated debates, etc.

Besides, some of your "headaches" just changed the name they post under.

Good to see ya Pops! Hope B17 comes out before Christmas.

posted 04-04- 09:36 AM               

"The sky is blue." "It ain't blue, it's turquoise you jerk."

OR

"It looks like a wave." "You sloth, that's not a wave, it's a dead fish on its side."

We haven't been able to get into the juicey stuff yet like: flight or damage models. Or server capabilities. Should be lots of fun(?) though, when we can.

Just like Tom Petty said: "The waiting is the hardest part."

posted 04-04- 03:42 PM               

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Brought to you by the campaign for a better Dauntless!

posted 04-04- 06:39 PM               

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posted 04-06- 12:20 PM               

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Kopper

Fortunae Nihil
(Nothing to Chance)
OPPs Making SDOE a Dangerous place.
One plane at a time.