Still can't get SDOE to run on win98

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Author	Topic: Still can't get SDOE to run on win98
Daniel Davis Pilot	posted 10-23- 12:01 AM Well...guys...I've tried just about everything I can think of. Still can't get sdoe to run on win98. I've uninstalled the program, uninstalled Graphics Blaster TNT (the software that came with the 16megs Creative Labs TNT card) ... then reinstalled it all (SDOE, the card software, etc.) such that I had the exact same setup that I had under win95. Then I installed the 1.5 patch. Then...I control/alt/delete and back out of each program running except for Explorer and systray. Then...I run SDOE. Results? Same symptoms...the movie plays (remember...after initial install..you have to be able to GET to the front end menu to be able to turn off the movie)...then I get a black screen...except for the blinking arrow cursor. I can move the cursor...but that's it. I have to reboot to get the machine to run. It won't even let me control/alt/delete and get out of sdoe. Have to reboot. At someone's suggestion, I did download the latest driver for the video card...and installed..but got same symptoms. Any ideas? On the positive side...I had the honor of meeting a WWII ace today...who personally knew General Chennault of the famed flying tigers. This guy flew Corsair's. I didn't know this....he said that the reason the Corsairs had the dipped wings was to give the plane more clearance on carrier decks. He gave strengths and weakness of all the major fighter aircraft to the minute detail. IP: Logged
Da Jug head Pilot	posted 10-23- 12:23 AM Runs fine on two machines for me. Both have Win98- One with a TNT, the other with a TNT2. This could be the creative drivers- try installing the Detonator 3 reference drivers from Nvidia. Also, since you reinstalled the drivers a couple of times- boot 98 in safe mode, Right click on My Computer and select "properties" Expand the video adapter category under device manager and see if you have the exclamation point. You could also have a problem I ran into- I did that the other day when my system started acting funny and found SIX video adapters listed- all of them the same. I deleted 5 of them, and my problems went away. Also, are you changing the display adapter driver to a standard PCI VGA graphics adapter and rebooting before installing your TNT drivers- this can make a BIG difference ------------------ "Where'd he GO!?!?" thunk-thunk-thunk-zing-OUCH That answered my question IP: Logged
Daniel Davis Pilot	posted 10-23- 10:27 PM thought I'd found the problem. Discovered the sound wire wasn't plugged into the back of the cdrom drive. Put it back..got sound, but same symtoms. Not sure I've done all you suggested. I did go into the cmos setup and (as I did when it worked with win95) and replied "y" to "Assign PCI video to interrupt?". I think I've tried downloading the latest drivers from Creative Labs..but got the same result. I'll try the detonator driver and see if that does anything. thanks for your reply. I think everyone else is sick of hearing from me. May have to give up on this sim. Dan quote: Originally posted by Da Jug head: Runs fine on two machines for me. Both have Win98- One with a TNT, the other with a TNT2. This could be the creative drivers- try installing the Detonator 3 reference drivers from Nvidia. Also, since you reinstalled the drivers a couple of times- boot 98 in safe mode, Right click on My Computer and select "properties" Expand the video adapter category under device manager and see if you have the exclamation point. You could also have a problem I ran into- I did that the other day when my system started acting funny and found SIX video adapters listed- all of them the same. I deleted 5 of them, and my problems went away. Also, are you changing the display adapter driver to a standard PCI VGA graphics adapter and rebooting before installing your TNT drivers- this can make a BIG difference IP: Logged
Commando Pilot	posted 10-24- 12:58 PM Daniel, I had a problem with a Socket 7 motherboard very early on with SDOE, I went through a lot of the tricks that you have tried , I at first got the 1.5 patch running by installing the latest AGP bus drivers and using conservative Bios settings. I only got the beta patches to run by changing motherboards, the old one was not supplying enough voltage to the TNT2 board, if a D3D game was running and the TNT2 was not getting enough voltage the game locked up or desktoped. I changed to a FIC board and the beta runs fine and I can use less conservative settings for Bios including AGP x2 instead of AGP x1. Look for a discussion group on the manufacturer of your MB (mine was Gigabyte) and see if anyone else is having the same problems, and the relies will give you some more ideas IP: Logged
Daniel Davis Pilot	posted 10-24- 11:47 PM the only thing is....I'm using the exact same hardware and software I was using when the game ran fine under win95. Puzzling. quote: Originally posted by Commando: Daniel, I had a problem with a Socket 7 motherboard very early on with SDOE, I went through a lot of the tricks that you have tried , I at first got the 1.5 patch running by installing the latest AGP bus drivers and using conservative Bios settings. I only got the beta patches to run by changing motherboards, the old one was not supplying enough voltage to the TNT2 board, if a D3D game was running and the TNT2 was not getting enough voltage the game locked up or desktoped. I changed to a FIC board and the beta runs fine and I can use less conservative settings for Bios including AGP x2 instead of AGP x1. Look for a discussion group on the manufacturer of your MB (mine was Gigabyte) and see if anyone else is having the same problems, and the relies will give you some more ideas IP: Logged
VDU Cadet	posted 10-25- 09:56 AM Mmmmhhh... Looks like a DirectX problem to me... Have you checked your DirectX installation (version number, etc..) Does other games/apps work Ok in DirectX ? Did you install DirectX 7.0 ? Hope this helps... Vincent IP: Logged
Commando Pilot	posted 10-25- 12:52 PM If your computer became more efficent with the install of Win98 over Win95 this would have increased the data input to the TNT2 and allowed to run faster leading it to take more voltage and hence a repeat of my problem. Have you looked at your error.log file in the Fighter Squadron/media folder, this will show you how far SDOE has got to before falling over, a sample of a succesful start is below. If you see which is the last line in your error.log this should show you what to look at. When I had my problem it didn't get past the first line. ** NEW SESSION AT Sun Oct 22 19:29:18 2000 (build Sep 10 1999, 16:17:54) Message: Direct3D:Primary Display Driver NEW SESSION AT Sun Oct 22 19:30:49 2000 (build Sep 10 1999, 16:17:54) ** Message: Direct3D:Primary Display Driver Message: CLauncher::Launch(): SetupNetwork() Message: CLauncher::Launch(): SetupSound() Message: Joy Caps flags Bh, type 204h, axes 4h, buttons 2h, POV 0h, sample 0h, time 0h, firmrev 0h, hardrev 0h, driver 10000h Message: IDirectInputDevice::GetProperty(DIPH_RANGE, X) -10000 10000 Message: IDirectInputDevice::GetProperty(DIPH_RANGE, Y) -10000 10000 Message: IDirectInputDevice::GetProperty(DIPH_RANGE, Z) 0 10000 Message: IDirectInputDevice::GetProperty(DIPH_RANGE, RZ) -10000 10000 Message: CLauncher::Launch(): CGameEngineConstruct() Message: Direct3D:Primary Display Driver Message: Setting D3D Renderer [Direct3D:Primary Display Driver] Message: Found D3D renderer Message: Found D3D renderer Message: Setting default screen Message: CLauncher::SetupRenderer(): Loading Direct3D Renderer Message: CLauncher::SetupRenderer(): Constructing Direct3D Renderer Message: D3D zbuffer depth = 16 Message: Setting D3D Mode 1600 1200 16 Message: CLauncher::SetupRenderer(): NewContext Message: CLauncher::Launch(): CGameEngine->RunGame() Message: CGameEngine::RunGame(): CGameEngine->Initialize() Message: CGameEngine::Initialize(): g3init() Message: CGameEngine::Initialize(): smInit() Message: Setting time state Message: Setting Window state Message: creating main lights Message: setting fog Message: CGameEngine::Initialize(): Renderer->Activate() Message: CGameEngine::Initialize(): Renderer->NewFontTable( pFontTables ) Message: CGameEngine::Initialize(): Renderer->ShowLoadingImage() IP: Logged
VDU Cadet	posted 10-26- 03:27 AM Commando, I'm afraid the problem is different than what you think... I would agree with you IF it was using D3D, but D3D is only used when you start a mission... For the menus and user interface, there is no 3D around, just a simple 2D directX screen. The data rate to the card is not different than for displaying the windows environment. Daniel, maybe the problem is not coming from the display. You should also check the DirectX drivers of your joystick (e.g. USB game devices have proven to cause many problems in WIN98) as well as your audio directX drivers (even if the music plays during the video sequence). Vincent IP: Logged
Mighty General	posted 10-26- 05:30 PM Just a wild guess. We are using DirectX to change to 640x480. 16 bit, if I remember rightly. With some drivers Windows only loads the pieces of the drivers that you've used for your desktop settings. You may not have the appropriate driver piece loaded to get to the mode we're looking for. You might try temporarily changing your screen properties to 640x480x16 to verify that it'll run in that mode. That way you'll force Windows to install that piece of the driver. Once you've done that you should be able to change it back to your normal settings. Once the driver has been used once we should be able to get at it. IP: Logged
Daniel Davis Pilot	posted 10-28- 07:34 AM Haven't looked at the error.log...but will. I'm about to try another approach. I have my hard drive on a mobile rack...removable. I got another drive..and installed win98b. I'm about to install sdoe and see if it works on that hard drive. If it does...surely the problem lies in some software conflict. BTW...I have a tnt not tnt2. quote: Originally posted by Commando: If your computer became more efficent with the install of Win98 over Win95 this would have increased the data input to the TNT2 and allowed to run faster leading it to take more voltage and hence a repeat of my problem. Have you looked at your error.log file in the Fighter Squadron/media folder, this will show you how far SDOE has got to before falling over, a sample of a succesful start is below. If you see which is the last line in your error.log this should show you what to look at. When I had my problem it didn't get past the first line. ** NEW SESSION AT Sun Oct 22 19:29:18 2000 (build Sep 10 1999, 16:17:54) Message: Direct3D:Primary Display Driver NEW SESSION AT Sun Oct 22 19:30:49 2000 (build Sep 10 1999, 16:17:54) ** Message: Direct3D:Primary Display Driver Message: CLauncher::Launch(): SetupNetwork() Message: CLauncher::Launch(): SetupSound() Message: Joy Caps flags Bh, type 204h, axes 4h, buttons 2h, POV 0h, sample 0h, time 0h, firmrev 0h, hardrev 0h, driver 10000h Message: IDirectInputDevice::GetProperty(DIPH_RANGE, X) -10000 10000 Message: IDirectInputDevice::GetProperty(DIPH_RANGE, Y) -10000 10000 Message: IDirectInputDevice::GetProperty(DIPH_RANGE, Z) 0 10000 Message: IDirectInputDevice::GetProperty(DIPH_RANGE, RZ) -10000 10000 Message: CLauncher::Launch(): CGameEngineConstruct() Message: Direct3D:Primary Display Driver Message: Setting D3D Renderer [Direct3D:Primary Display Driver] Message: Found D3D renderer Message: Found D3D renderer Message: Setting default screen Message: CLauncher::SetupRenderer(): Loading Direct3D Renderer Message: CLauncher::SetupRenderer(): Constructing Direct3D Renderer Message: D3D zbuffer depth = 16 Message: Setting D3D Mode 1600 1200 16 Message: CLauncher::SetupRenderer(): NewContext Message: CLauncher::Launch(): CGameEngine->RunGame() Message: CGameEngine::RunGame(): CGameEngine->Initialize() Message: CGameEngine::Initialize(): g3init() Message: CGameEngine::Initialize(): smInit() Message: Setting time state Message: Setting Window state Message: creating main lights Message: setting fog Message: CGameEngine::Initialize(): Renderer->Activate() Message: CGameEngine::Initialize(): Renderer->NewFontTable( pFontTables ) Message: CGameEngine::Initialize(): Renderer->ShowLoadingImage() IP: Logged
Daniel Davis Pilot	posted 10-28- 07:35 AM Thanks. Tried. Same result. quote: Originally posted by Da Jug head: Runs fine on two machines for me. Both have Win98- One with a TNT, the other with a TNT2. This could be the creative drivers- try installing the Detonator 3 reference drivers from Nvidia. Also, since you reinstalled the drivers a couple of times- boot 98 in safe mode, Right click on My Computer and select "properties" Expand the video adapter category under device manager and see if you have the exclamation point. You could also have a problem I ran into- I did that the other day when my system started acting funny and found SIX video adapters listed- all of them the same. I deleted 5 of them, and my problems went away. Also, are you changing the display adapter driver to a standard PCI VGA graphics adapter and rebooting before installing your TNT drivers- this can make a BIG difference IP: Logged
Daniel Davis Pilot	posted 10-28- 03:55 PM Well....I tried putting SDOE on another hard drive and inserting it into the mobile rack. This time...sdoe loaded...and got past the loading of terrain...and then forced reboot. When reboot executed...scandisk ran to 65% and said it found a long filename it couldn't fix. Now the drive won't reboot. I'm going to run scandisk again (off floppy) and see if I can get the disk to boot again. All this seems to indicate (to me) that I may be dealing with a heat problem based upon what you said about win98 putting more demands on the system than win95 did. quote: Originally posted by Daniel Davis: Haven't looked at the error.log...but will. I'm about to try another approach. I have my hard drive on a mobile rack...removable. I got another drive..and installed win98b. I'm about to install sdoe and see if it works on that hard drive. If it does...surely the problem lies in some software conflict. BTW...I have a tnt not tnt2. IP: Logged
Daniel Davis Pilot	posted 10-29- 12:33 AM Well..I looked at the error log. There was one line in it that said something like "dummy file to do"...such and such. I installed another hard drive, put win98 on it...and then video drivers..and ultimately sdoe. this time, I got it to run, but only long enough to load the terrain...then the machine kicked to a reboot. When scandisk ran...it couldn't repair a "long filename", and I couldn't get win98 up again...despite fdisk'ing, etc. Anyway...all that (to me) seems to indicate perhaps a heat problem. I'm going to look for a heat fan for my Creative Labs RIVA TNT card...and see if that helps. quote: Originally posted by Daniel Davis: Thanks. Tried. Same result. IP: Logged
Commando Pilot	posted 10-29- 01:31 AM Daniel, from your last attempt that got to the loading screen you will have an error.log a bit longer than the previous one, post it here for us to look at. IP: Logged
duke Cadet	posted 10-29- 01:30 PM I need everyones help as well. I too am suffering from game lockups which started when I updated my windows 98 ( critical update files)and IBM aptiva system. The IBM update gave me a new version of my ATI driver card. I tried it, the frame rates were low so I returned to my original card. Then whenever I got a few seconds into actually flying a training mission after uninstalling and installing sdoe, directx7a, checking joystick etc etc and going back to the upgraded driver (frame rates seem ok now}, nothing changed my lockups. That's it in a nutshell. I've tried everything mentioned by everyone so far and out of desperation and waiting for ATI to help, I checked my ERROR file and discovered two failed messages. Message: IDirectInputDevice::SetProperty(DIPROP_DEADZONE, RX) FAILED Message: IDirectInputDevice::SetProperty(DIPROP_SATURATION, RX) FAILED Message: IDirectInputDevice::SetProperty(DIPROP_DEADZONE, RY) FAILED Message: IDirectInputDevice::SetProperty(DIPROP_SATURATION, RY) FAILED Does this mean anything????? Can it be fixed? The last line says CGameEngine::RunGame(): CGameEngine->DoGameLoop() at the time the monitor freezes up and I have to reboot my system. IP: Logged
Daniel Davis Pilot	posted 10-29- 01:31 PM O' well...problem is that when the pc rebooted...it couldn't repair the disk via scandisk. Since I haven't been able to get it to run again...I can't get to that log file. In fact, now when I try to reinstall win98 on the disk...it won't recognize the cd. Worse...when I used the win98 emergency disk's format command...it formats the drive, but can't write the boot sector. quote: Originally posted by Commando: Daniel, from your last attempt that got to the loading screen you will have an error.log a bit longer than the previous one, post it here for us to look at. IP: Logged
Commando Pilot	posted 10-29- 01:44 PM Duke, the first 4 lines are refering to your joystick, I have had these messages before but the game ran ok. I do not know how to fix the last line but it does look like an error is causing the game to go into a loop. When you change video drivers do you change to std VGA drivers before going to the new ones, you need to do this every time to make sure no traces of the originals are left. IP: Logged
Mighty General	posted 10-29- 05:38 PM Daniel, it sounds like you have a bad hard drive. I'm just guessing. But, not being able to write the boot sector is a bad sign. You don't need Scandisk to fix "long filenames." That's just a sign that Microsoft hasn't updated their tools. The OS allows names up to 256 characters long, but Scandisk complains if anything is over 63 characters. So Scandisk complains about legal filenames. IP: Logged
Mighty General	posted 10-29- 05:47 PM Duke, you can ignore those SetProperty lines. That's where we're testing to see if you have several joystick axes that your joystick apparently doesn't have. For example, rudder pedals, etc. The DoGameLoop is not an error. It's just a sign saying, "we're starting the game, now." Your locking sure sounds like a driver problem. As Commando suggested, make sure you switch to VGA so that you can guarentee that you get fresh copies of the driver in there. IP: Logged
duke Cadet	posted 10-30- 06:54 AM I don't know what you want me to do with by VGA. Could you expain in more detail. I should add, only sdoe is effected by lockups. IP: Logged
Commando Pilot	posted 10-30- 01:44 PM Duke, when you update the video driver you go into control panel/display/settings/advanced/adapter where you select update, you are then given the option to update the driver, at this point you should select the Std VGA driver not the new one and reboot. On reboot you then go into control panel/display/settings/advanced/adapter/update and then you choose the video driver you want to update to. You then reboot again. Its clumbersome but it makes sure 2 versions of the same base driver (eg 6.18 and 6.31 say) do not get mixed up and cause the problems you have. IP: Logged
Daniel Davis Pilot	posted 10-30- 10:50 PM I'm with you on that one. The used hard drive is going back to the guy I bought it from. It's a STS brand drive. In the meantime, I think I'm going to try someone's suggestion to open the case and put a room fan on it 2c if that helps. If so, it's heat..and I can get a cooling fan for the video chip. I'm running directx 6. Seems like I tried version 7 before and got the same lockups. Was wondering though, if I try 7...should I remove 6? If so...how do you remove directx6? quote: Originally posted by Mighty: Daniel, it sounds like you have a bad hard drive. I'm just guessing. But, not being able to write the boot sector is a bad sign. You don't need Scandisk to fix "long filenames." That's just a sign that Microsoft hasn't updated their tools. The OS allows names up to 256 characters long, but Scandisk complains if anything is over 63 characters. So Scandisk complains about legal filenames. IP: Logged
duke Cadet	posted 10-31- 01:27 PM Thanks Mighty and Commando....I got back to my original driver and SDOE is working fine. I guess I've learned that if it ain't broke, don't fix it! Now on to trying my hand at some paintjobs........duke IP: Logged
Daniel Davis Pilot	posted 11-05- 11:40 PM Duke...what were your original drivers? I installed the ones that came with my RIVA TNT disk...just put the disk into the cd and let the install run. It still locks up with me. quote: Originally posted by duke: Thanks Mighty and Commando....I got back to my original driver and SDOE is working fine. I guess I've learned that if it ain't broke, don't fix it! Now on to trying my hand at some paintjobs........duke IP: Logged
Daniel Davis Pilot	posted 11-05- 11:42 PM Well struck out on all that. And, this weekend...I put a fan in the case and pointed it at the video card. Same result. Locks up after the movie runs...or locks up immediately if you hit escape when the movie begins. quote: Originally posted by Da Jug head: Runs fine on two machines for me. Both have Win98- One with a TNT, the other with a TNT2. This could be the creative drivers- try installing the Detonator 3 reference drivers from Nvidia. Also, since you reinstalled the drivers a couple of times- boot 98 in safe mode, Right click on My Computer and select "properties" Expand the video adapter category under device manager and see if you have the exclamation point. You could also have a problem I ran into- I did that the other day when my system started acting funny and found SIX video adapters listed- all of them the same. I deleted 5 of them, and my problems went away. Also, are you changing the display adapter driver to a standard PCI VGA graphics adapter and rebooting before installing your TNT drivers- this can make a BIG difference IP: Logged
duke Cadet	posted 11-06- 09:43 AM D.D. are you positive that the other drivers have been completely removed so you don't have any driver conflicts.... I have tried again to upgrade my driver from the original and found even with a cleam install, sdoe still locks up so until I get some answers from ati, I'm going to leave it alone and run with my original driver version. Funny thing is, I had been running with an updated version all along and my problems started with trying to upgrade my upgrade. IP: Logged
Daniel Davis Pilot	posted 11-07- 10:58 PM Well....here's the procedure I used: 1. I rebooted and entered SAFE mode. 2. I went into control panel 3. I deleted all video drivers by going to SYSTEM and expanding DISPLAY ADAPTERS under DEVICES. 4. I rebooted into win98 and refused it permission to search for the "best driver". 4(a) I later tried the same thing and let it ask for the driver on the cdrom that came with the card. It couldn't find the driver on the cd. 5. I auto-ran the cd that came with my Creative Labs Graphics Blaster RIVA TNT and let it run to completion. 6. I rebooted and tried the game. 7. I let the game run the opening movie...and it locked up upon completion. 8. I rebooted...and hit escape when the movie started....locked up. Now....did I correctly remove the driver, or is there some other way that I'm not aware of? Thanks for your reply. Oh..by the way...I even bought a cooling fan and pointed it at the video cpu. No changes. Same old same old. I don't think it's heat related. Since the same machine ran it fine under win95, I can only imagine that it's win98's fault somehow. quote: Originally posted by duke: D.D. are you positive that the other drivers have been completely removed so you don't have any driver conflicts.... I have tried again to upgrade my driver from the original and found even with a cleam install, sdoe still locks up so until I get some answers from ati, I'm going to leave it alone and run with my original driver version. Funny thing is, I had been running with an updated version all along and my problems started with trying to upgrade my upgrade. IP: Logged
Mighty General	posted 11-08- 12:25 PM You might try reinstalling or upgrading sound drivers, too. Do you have any unusual hardware on that machine? Say, some off-brand scanner or an early model firewire port or something like that? Anything that might have a driver installed that few other people are likely to have? IP: Logged
Daniel Davis Pilot	posted 11-08- 04:02 PM I do have a new monitor...the KDS Avitron...but I let Windows set it up. FSIC wouldn't run on win98 with my old monitor either...a DIGITAL brand 15 inch. I know for a fact that SDOE will run on this monitor because I have a friend who has it running on his machine, which is hooked to the same monitor. quote: Originally posted by Mighty: You might try reinstalling or upgrading sound drivers, too. Do you have any unusual hardware on that machine? Say, some off-brand scanner or an early model firewire port or something like that? Anything that might have a driver installed that few other people are likely to have? IP: Logged
Daniel Davis Pilot	posted 11-10- 12:58 AM FINALLY!!!! FIXED!!!!!!!!! Your suggestion about reinstalling the sound drivers got me to thinking...and I recalled how in past problems....reinstalling windows on top of windows seemed to cure a lot of problems. I did it ... and it worked! WHEW! Thanks everyone for your help. This sim has been so much more fun because of the help I've gotten right here! Dan quote: Originally posted by Mighty: You might try reinstalling or upgrading sound drivers, too. Do you have any unusual hardware on that machine? Say, some off-brand scanner or an early model firewire port or something like that? Anything that might have a driver installed that few other people are likely to have? IP: Logged
VDU Cadet	posted 11-10- 02:42 AM I'm glad you're finally able to enjoy this sim ! Have fun :-) IP: Logged

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