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Author
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Topic: How do they do that? Dogfight advice please
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Mark_Walsh
Pilot
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posted 05-19- 12:45 AM
   
Quite a few times now, when chasing Fw190's in my Spitfire V, I have been impressed by how the AI seems to make the FockeWulf's apparently instantly stop and turn some very tight near-180 degree turns while I am on their tail (generally coming in from a position of altitude and speed advantage) commonly all occurring at generally low altitudes. Of course, some of the time I am just going TOOO fast, but others I am nicely placed.I find it quite frustrating overshooting like that, but I would love to know how they do it - throttle/flaps - what is the secret? Is there an effective counter to that?
Doesn't seem to help all that much tho', rather prolonging their demise because they don't have much E. (Unless I stall and crash ... I'm still getting used to this WWII flying  ) Thanks in advance.
MW Hmm .. I have had a chatty couple of days here IP: Logged |
Zurawski
Pilot
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posted 05-19- 09:11 AM
A FW190 is capable of making a "instant turn" (but it gives up copious amounts of energy as a trade-off) equal if not greater than your Spit, despite your speed or positioning.You counter this by pulling "up" into a climbing turn, then rolling over and coming back down on it while in the turn... This accomplished two things ... 1.) It slows you down to allow you a quicker turn without blacking out .. 2.) Because of the perabolic flight-path, it again allows you a faster/quicker turn ... IP: Logged |
Nat
Pilot
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posted 05-19- 03:58 PM
Mark.. I finally discovered that the use of rudder in a turn dramaticly decrease your turning circle and keeps your speed fairly high (in comparission to using flaps in a turn)I don't have rudder pedals, but with the smallest amount of practice you can get really good results with the keyboard and fast fingers  I found that out by downing 3 109's online in a single mission in my P38, I was using rudder, they weren't, out turned them within 3 tuns and never got off their tail till they were down after that. ~Nat~ ------------------
JV44 "Naturlich"
If you can't out run em.. <B>OUT GUN EM!</B>
<B>Nats FS-SDOE Site</B>
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Mark_Walsh
Pilot
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posted 05-20- 06:48 AM
Thanks Nat and Zur:Sounds like you are describing a Hi YoYo Zur: is that right? Is the Retournment a useful manoeuvre in WWII planes? Sort of similar to Immelman (common usage) but finish up going in the same original direction. Useful in WWI in high E situation against a slower less manoeuvrable plane in front ... so that we end up behind and put in more shots instead of overshooting ... ? Thanks again.
MW IP: Logged |
Zurawski
Pilot
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posted 05-20- 11:56 AM
LOL!Yes ... a "high Yo-Yo" (I was tryng to not throw tech gargon around) A Retournment or an Immelman in WWII planes it quite frankly suicide. The amount of time you hang at the apex of your manuver is like painting a big-ass "shoot-me" on your plane!  IP: Logged |
Nat
Pilot
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posted 05-20- 11:59 AM
been there done that.. LMAOIP: Logged |
Mark_Walsh
Pilot
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posted 05-21- 06:55 PM
Yep. I can throw the TERMS about, but I have trouble throwing the planes about!Hi YoYo: what stick and rudder inputs do you use to execute this move in true textbook fashion? Half of the time, I find myself (in WWI Red Baron anyway) using the rudder as a sort of control to get me going the way I want to as I come out of a near stall. (I am pretty sure that that is NOT how I should be doing it though ) That doesn't seem to happen so much in FSSDOE, but advice would be helpful. What balance of controls do you use with most of these planes? Looking forward to your thoughts! Regards,
MW [This message has been edited by Mark_Walsh (edited 05-21-2000).] IP: Logged |
Zurawski
Pilot
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posted 05-22- 09:11 AM
What "stick movements"?Well ... This is what "I" do, that in no way makes it the "correct" proceedure! Say your target breaks hard/fast left.. (or your coming in too fast and over persue).. Pull "up" roughly 30 to 40-degrees, banking slightly into the direction of your target. Once you've regained turn advantage, roll over and break back down into your target ... Advantage with this manuver is you constantly keep the target in sight ... You have positive "E" after the manuver ... you have altitude advantage ... and can use the parabalic turn to increase your turn-speed potential ... Basicly you are dicatating the fight! well, ... that's how "I" see it! IP: Logged |
Mark_Walsh
Pilot
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posted 05-27- 08:24 AM
Well, Zur, that is roughly what I do ... which is good. Trouble I am having at present is blacking out trying to pull out of my little dive as I come back down onto the enemy ...Still working on that. I presume it is a question of timing. Thanks Mark W. IP: Logged |
Zurawski
Pilot
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posted 05-27- 11:04 AM
Hehehe...I'm thinking you're a bit "too" ready to pull up directly into your target. If your coming in "that hot" ... Don't put your recticle directly on the target, but 300 to 400 ft. behind him, that way you can dive past, make a more gradual recovery (also give a nice belly shot).. But by the time your back on his tail, your speed is usually more managable ... IP: Logged |
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