posted 11-24- 11:52 AM               

In general, I get the feeling that Il-2 is pretty much exactly what SDoE would have been with 3 to 6 months more work. That is to say that the two teams clearly concentrated on the same sorts of details to make the game feel right - a good physics model, accurate damage, etc.

However Il-2 is, simply put, newer. As a result it includes all sorts of new detailing like the engine startup smoke, even better clouds than SDoE, better looking smoke trails on the guns, more lighting effects, etc. Better yet, RAIN! Finally!

The terrain looks excellent. I can't say I did too much poking about, but things like the German airbase looked absolutely superb.

In addition the plane models are simply outstanding. Jumping from the P-39 to the Il-2 in the two demo missions really did feel considerably different. The planes also feel much more sluggish at low speed than I get in SDoE, which certainly seems more realistic. The internal graphics for the planes are excellent, as is the instrumentation and layout. No "faking" the cockpit here.

In addition the UI shows a massive improvement over SDoE in terms of the resolution. I've always hated SDoE's low-rez UI; text in the various setup screens is illegible, the maps are of low quality, etc. Comparitively Il-2's UI is sharp and crisp.

However I fault both for having a "game interface", where you flip from screen to screen in a button-pushing system. How HyperCard. I much prefer to use the real Windows UI - why can't I have a menu at the top of the screen like in A-10?

Now the downside. On my first mission I pranged the takeoff and ended up with my engine about 6 feet underground. Hmm.

After sorting that out we were off to hunt the bombers. I watched my lead (number 5 for some reason) go in and as the bomber starts shooting he calls "get this guy off my tail!". Oh come on!

But that's not the worst of it, the group of Ju's shot us all down. Three P-39's vs. four Ju's should equal three P-39's and zero Ju's. In our case it was zero P-39's and four Ju's. Why? Well it appears that the Ju can shoot directly to the rear, which as any SDoE player knows, is not possible. In addition they seem to have perfect aim. Even worse, their punny MG17's seemed to be armed with nukes. Something is VERY wrong with this.

So then I tried the Il-2 instead, and enjoyed it. However it suffers from the most user-hostile UI I've seen. For the hell of it I jumped into the gunner's seat, and found that I couldn't control the gun. This was odd. Then I tried the mouse and it worked.

So let me get this right, I'll have to SWITCH CONTOLLERS in the middle of the game? Oh, good idea brainiac! Worse, I still can't find the trigger. I don't know, I think a good place would be, oh, the MOUSE BUTTON?

But that's OK, my gunner managed to shoot down two 109's. Oh, that's realistic. Like I said, something's very wrong there.

Overall the game seems excellent, a definite A. However these sorts of rediculous problems need to be cleaned out.

posted 11-24- 01:26 PM               

I've seen the problem with the Ju88's though, somewhat annoying (very), I'd say overall it's a good game and reasonable slight sim, whereas I put SDOE as a good flight sim, mediocur game.

To be honest though, my only problem with IL2 is having no feeling of distance when in the cockpit, and I hate that "painted on" feeling when I'm viewing aircraft ahead of me, but what can I say, I don't have the final release version, and right now I'm not tempted into buying it, but one day maybe, it's just that IL2 doesn't seem to be what I hoped for, doesn't make it a bad game, just not realy one for me.

posted 11-24- 02:10 PM               

About the rear gunners: The mouse button does fire! At least it does for me in both the demo and the full version.

I also think theyve cleaned up the comm system a bit so you wont get those awkward messages. (I havent gotten them yet)

I like being able to control the gunner with a mouse!! Its MUCH easier. I can aim a heck of a lot better and it brings be back to the days of SWOTL when I manned the gunner positions with a mouse.

The rear gunner in IL-2 is now very ammo aware. He conserves it better and no longer shoot at ground targets (They really werent allowed to in WW2)

To me IL-2 is the core of flight sims. The FM, DM, physics, graphics and game play all add up! For an example: I got a fuel leak on my Bf 109K after a long dogfight with an ace. I soon landed (As my fuel was running low) and to my surprise, I saw fuel dripping from the bottom wing of my plane! Realistic? Oh hell yes.

posted 11-24- 05:55 PM               

I get ya though, those problems don't bug me that much.

What bugs me in the crash physics department is it seems like when the plane crashes it just all comes apart in peices, parts don't fall off from explosions or contacting something. A part contacts the ground and the whole thing comes apart, and the parts don't seem to move realisticaly.

Thats what I love about SDOE, the damage, the kinked wings half holding on.

AH well I can live with it, I guess in IL-2 they didn't want to spend as my CPU time on the crash physics or something.

I LOVE the startup, the smoke kills my performace though, ah well.

I'm stalling alot, but I think its just cause i'm used to throwing around planes in SDOE that don't stall as often and are easier to recover.

Did flat spins really happen that often in ww2 aircraft? If so then SDOE isn't getting that part right at all. I got in an inverted flat spin last night, never got out of that one.

And yeah those bomber gunners are deadly, I havn't noticed if they are hitting me when they shouldn't be cause I'm usually going for a group and I figure at least one of them will get a bead on me

I also think the mouse would be easier to use as a gun control. I do see your point about switching controllers though, you should be able to setup the joystick as the gunner control.

I'm also using the demo BTW, and now I'm gonig to go play some more.

posted 11-24- 06:10 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Nat:
I've seen the problem with the Ju88's though, somewhat annoying (very), I'd say overall it's a good game and reasonable slight sim, whereas I put SDOE as a good flight sim, mediocur game.

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Yes, that seems like a good way to put it. On the other end of the scale would be Crimson Skies, while it's a poor sim it's a tonne of fun to fly.

quote:

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IL2 cockpit = awsome! Very well made I must say, especialy since I hate building cockpits

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I agree, very well done.

Maury

posted 11-24- 06:12 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by ArgonV:
I like being able to control the gunner with a mouse!! Its MUCH easier.

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I fly _everything_ with the mouse. I hate games that force me onto the stick, and Il-2 is one of these. However it's far far worse to have to move back and forth. Either allow me to use the mouse for everything, or the stick for everything. Anything else is silly.

posted 11-24- 06:16 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Spanky the Mad Dog:
I get ya though, those problems don't bug me that much.

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Nor me, it's just odd to see them when a few hours of code would get rid of it.

quote:

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What bugs me in the crash physics department is it seems like when the plane crashes it just all comes apart in peices

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Yeah, I noticed that too, but I was hitting the ground hard so I couldn't say one way or the other.

quote:

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I LOVE the startup, the smoke kills my performace though, ah well.

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No problems there on my machine, but I do note that terrain can hit the FR a lot. That's frightening considering this is a 1GHz machine with a GeForce 3.

quote:

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Did flat spins really happen that often in ww2 aircraft?

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Yes! And yes, the FM's in SDoE are still far too forgiving. No snap rolls either.

posted 11-28- 06:34 AM               

The game will let me use the keyboard, but i cant see where to setup the joystick.

Please can anyone tell me how to get them working?