posted 10-26- 01:37 PM            

Anyways-- the topic of cloning came up....and we talked of the current state of human cloning. Most of the scientific world sees it as highly unethical and wrong, wrong, wrong! There is this one group of scientists, however, who are determined to do it-- regardless of being called to testify in front of Congress....and regardless of the world's top scientists pleading their cases against their work. These people are clueless as to how biology as a whole works....but they have a grand amount of money and resources to do their research.

The three top scientists in the project are:

Panayiotis Michael Zavos- director of the Andrology Institute in Lexington, Kentucky.

Dr. Severino Antinori-- University of Rome

Brigitte Boisselier-- director of Clonaid

These three are completely ignoring evidence that cloning involves unbelieveable amounts of failure with many numerous chances for birth abnormalities. Even the scientist who cloned Dolly was there opposing these folks.

So where do they get their money? Well...seems there is a religion called the Raelians (named after Rael of course....one who has been "abducted by aliens" and has returned to earth to represent the aliens to the world. This guy is very rich and these people seem well on their way to doing what they intend to do....they even hinted to Congress that work was well under way.

Some Raelian followers are hopeful that this work will succeed....at least two have preserved cells from their dead children in the hopes of resurrecting them when the research is successful.

Check their website here:

www.clonaid.com

So-- as interesting as the debate on WWII bombing and Microsoft are....what do you guys think of this? Human cloning itself is a pretty hot topic....but what would we think if a religious cult were the first to do it?

I anticipate some comments

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posted 10-26- 02:23 PM               

But this does come into play in all this...part and parcel, so to speak. Unless such action is performed in a 'controlled' environment ( I always grin when I say or hear that term - the only true 'controlled' environment is one similar to Afghanistan...or insert your favorite here...), the ramifications could be such as this course could be defined as aiding and abetting terrorists. Making the Raelians a possible target for military action under current world definitions.

Interesting - will have to think on it. Those are just preliminary thoughts based on your post, the first I ever heard of this. What I know about cloning you could fit on the head of a pin, and still have room for the entire text of War and Peace. I think I am against it...but then, sometimes I think I am against being rich, while at other times...see, it kind of depends on 'how will it benefit ME?'. Hey...I'm only human!

posted 10-26- 06:18 PM               

My opinion... Human genetic cloning should be perfected, I'm not talking about altering genes here, not genetic enhancement, but the actual cloning process. The reason for this is a pretty simple one, you never know what the future holds, it's a devious thing... having the abiltiy to clone with a very high rate of success (atleast eaqual to usual reproduction methods) means that down the road we have the ability IF NEEDED to keep the human race going, keep it alive. None of us knows what the future holds, and if cloning became the only way to keep us as a race alive then should we throw it away? Ofcourse not, ethics mean nothing with no-one to stand by them. If you've read me right then you understand that I don't think human cloning should become common place, there's to maey people on this planet for one things anyway, but sometime we might have to use cloning, and to be so pig headed to have stopped it now would be pretty sad.

There is ofcourse the other problem.. no matter what a country decides and makes law, there will always be another country willing to allow it for some cash in their pockets.

I believe in evolution, families that can't have children have a genetic error, and this flaw would be carried over to the cloned child, maybe it wont show straight away, but that "bad" gene is in them, natural evolution would kill this bad gene off since there wouldn't be children to carry it on, but cloning a child for them circumvents this... thats never a good idea.

Anyway, enough waffle.. I think human cloning must be perfected, but not used (if you see what I mean), like I said, in 1000 years if we're dying out for whatever reason, not having perfected cloning could be the death of us.

posted 10-26- 06:25 PM               

"...and for each individual to regularly download on their PC a back-up of their personality (memory and experience) which could then be transferred into the new clone..."

Aside from the enormous amount of disk space this would take (storing all you memories and personality), to the best of my knowledge, there is no way to do this. (If you don't get me to go for an ID card what makes you think I would go for this???? Talk about potential breach of privacy!)

They also suggest that clones could be made of the terrorists who dies so the could be tried...... They were already tried and executed by their own actions. They dont need to be tried and then aquitted because someone bought the jury.....

posted 10-26- 09:49 PM               

OK, other than that, if we did delve into cloning people for the fun of it, do you honestly think that any civilised goverment would allow such things? And as for poor countries, hell they don't know what to do with the people they have already, let alone clone more! IF, by an extreme strech of the imagination, there was to be more workers needed than there are people unemployed, I seriously doubt that people would think the answer is to clone more as slaves even if the goverment allowed it, especialy considering you're looking at an 18 year wait for your labour force.

Come on, lets try and keep this sensible lol

posted 10-26- 09:55 PM               

Your points are valid ones Jerry, I wouldn't agree myself with widespread cloning, but people need to come back down to earth sometimes.

posted 10-27- 02:32 AM               

WM

posted 10-27- 05:32 AM               

I have no doubt they would try to make laws
that would consider clones to be sub-human
and could be owned by the person or corporation
that had them made and used as they see fit.

As cloning technology became more advanced
they could clone people for specific tasks.
Assembly workers with 3 arms for instance.

posted 10-27- 12:50 PM               

How terrible that experienced workers might make more than new ones. If seniority is so meaningless in pay why is it so important in promotions and layoffs in a union shop? Besides, like I said above, if they are truely clones some will be stupid enough to join a union.

Maybe you should tell your friend Steinbrenner to pay all the Yankees the same regardless of their talent levels or experience.

Also, why is that one day you brag about retiring at 50 and the next you complain that management hounded you into it?

posted 10-27- 03:36 PM               

Maybe your lucky enough to work for a good
employer but there are a lot of companies
who treat their workers just like I stated
above. I worked for one. They are doing that
exact practice right now.

The place where I worked people hire in for
8.50 an hour on what used to be an 18.00 an
hour job. If your the older worker making
9.50 an hour more for the same work, guess
what they'd like to do for you. Hundreds of
people have been forced to retire before they
are ready. Sure the older worker should make
more than a new hire. Our old contract was
set up that way but only about 3% less for
a new hire.

posted 10-27- 06:26 PM               

So what kind of idiot would work for a company like this for 30 years? A slave who can leave at any time is not a slave but a moron. I walked away from a job years ago that paid $65,000/yr. because the CEO was a scumbag. It's a free country.

How do you "force" someone to retire? Yes, there are retirement "buyouts" but they are voluntary.

posted 10-27- 06:54 PM               

If you were "being ridden" so much that you were forced to quit, where was your Union? Aren't they there to protect you against harrassment? Or when you say "ridden" do you mean they made you work and earn your pay.

posted 10-27- 10:01 PM               

If your union couldn't get the company to expand it's list of available arbitrators to handle all the grievances than they were weak and not doing their job.

I didn't say you would receive full benefits after 5 years. I said you would be vested in what you had earned up to that point and could never lose it if you left the company. If you work until normal retirement age like the rest of us you wouldn't need fully paid heath insurance. You would be eligible for medicare. It was your choice to retire at the age of 50....live with your decision.

Face it Smokey, you're a loser and you you've spent 30 years in misery trying to blame your poor decisions and unhappy life on someone else. Typical liberal, never accepting responsiblility for your own mistakes. Always blaming the other guy.

Getting back on topic, if they learn how to clone liberals we're dooomed.

posted 10-28- 02:02 AM               

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posted 10-28- 11:10 AM               

The average person does quit and pull up stakes. The average person has six jobs in their lifetime. You are the aberition. You are the fictional character. You are the one who doesn't know what the real world is like.

So quit giving me this poor disadvantaged underpriviledged child crap. You made your bed now lie in it and stop blaming your miserable life on those who made better decisions than you.

I quit jobs and "pulled up stakes" several times to better myself and my family. The wienies of the world who are too meek to take chances get what they deserve. With risk goes the rewards, something you will never understand.

Why should your ex-employer bother with clones when they have brain-dead union members like you who will work for 30 years under terrible conditions?

posted 10-28- 11:13 AM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by Vmartini:
what worries me is what if they start cloning americans.

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Americans don't need to be cloned. We're already the biggest and badest. As the world is about to find out, you don't fuck with America.

posted 10-28- 12:11 PM               

BTW I have not had a bad life and I am not
bemoning my existance. To reconize bad employeers
and bad employment tactics and try to point
them out is not whining.

Since your so smart, what is the purpose of
cloning people if not to use them for something? We certainly have enough people
all ready. If someone can't have children
there are plenty of babies available for
adoption.

posted 10-28- 05:44 PM            

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