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Author
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Topic: National ID card.. Is It Time?
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Snickers
Pilot
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posted 10-25- 09:53 AM
   
What do you say, yes or no...?[This message has been edited by Snickers (edited 10-25-2001).] IP: Logged |
Smokey
Pilot
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posted 10-25- 10:45 AM
I say no. This stuff about giving law enforcement
more power scares me. Our state of Illinois
is jumping on the band wagon and wanting more
power for local law enforcement. I want to
see terrorists caught as much as anyone but
I think the potential for law enforcement
to become the terrorists is great also.IP: Logged |
Jerry
Pilot
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posted 10-25- 11:59 AM
Smokey, that's like saying we shouldn't take any medicine because it tastes bad or that shots hurt or that there is a risk of side effects. Let's fight the disease first and worry about the side effects later, OK?During war you always have to sacrifice some civil liberties. It happens in every war. If you're not willing to make a short term sacrifice (the terrorist bill is time limited) to protect your country maybe you should move to one not under attack! You are afraid of law enforcement becoming terrorists, why aren't you afraid of big government becoming dictatorial? Edit: By the way, my comments only apply to expanded police powers and other security measures. I don't agree with the national ID card mainly because I don't see where it would help. Between Social Security Cards and Drivers Licences we are already in computers if the Gov't. wants access to our identity. And yes, SS cards and Drivers Licences can be used as phony ID but so will the national ID card. [This message has been edited by Jerry (edited 10-25-2001).] IP: Logged |
nealg
Pilot
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posted 10-25- 12:10 PM
I'd add my voice to the No category. Like anything else, if one really wanted to, it could be circumvented. Thus, only those who really didn't need to be included would be. And those who really needed tabs kept on them, wouldn't have them....or would have fake ones. It would simply add more confusion in the long run, and in the end, turn out to be ineffective except as a information tool....something that is already available to the national government for nearly everyone who attempts to live as a 'law-abiding' resident.There are no 'easy' solutions, though, and if it comes to pass, then those of us who must will live with it, and those who don't want to, won't. And I would think it would still be difficult to tell the 2 apart - until it was too late. 
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nealg=FC= IP: Logged |
Sv
JAG
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posted 10-25- 12:17 PM
I am usually very against such things, but this is war time. If it helps at all, I say go for it!I'll give up a little freedom to keep the huge amount of freedom I enjoy now... IP: Logged |
Spanky the Mad Dog
Pilot
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posted 10-25- 02:09 PM
I can't see how it would help, and there is one thing you all forgot to mention.
Exspense. Remember how many dollars it would take to implement something like this. The cost is mind boggling. IP: Logged |
Snickers
Pilot
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posted 10-25- 03:27 PM
Re: Civil Rights....
The people in the World Trade Center didnt have any. RE: Police becoming the terrorists....
Against the police we have legal recourse. Against terrorists we have none. RE: Circumvention.... (yes, no matter what you do... BUT)
Depending on how it was implimented at the least it woould leave a trail to someone who aided and abetted. RE: Giving up freedom....
Giving up freedom scares the crap out of me. Once you give it up, the only way (usually) that you get it back is by revolution. RE: The cost....
Last I heard, estimates for 9-11 were at about 11 Billion dollars. That being said, this is something no one should take lightly yea or nay. I honestly don't know one way or the other at the moment. I could make an argument either way (in fact, I just did  )...
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Snickers
=FC=
Thou shalt maintaineth altitude, lest the earth rise up and smite thee.
 IP: Logged |
Spanky the Mad Dog
Pilot
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posted 10-25- 03:57 PM
Hehe yeah your right you did. Until you said that I was wondering which side you were arguing for I'm suprised 911 wasn't more. IP: Logged |
Smokey
Pilot
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posted 10-25- 04:07 PM
Yeah, pretty good response Snickers. The cost
for 9-11 is still going on.IP: Logged |
Jerry
Pilot
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posted 10-25- 06:01 PM
$11 billion???? The emergency package that Congress passed was $40 billion all by itself, and now Congress is looking at another $100 billion to get the economy jump started. IP: Logged |
Snickers
Pilot
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posted 10-25- 06:24 PM
Physical damage.... Its _way_ too early to figure the economic impact. For example what happens if UAL goes out of business? Thats a >very< major hit....So far the pros out weigh the cons.... IP: Logged |
robert s
Pilot
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posted 10-25- 09:22 PM
The real issue that is attempting to be solved is a tracking of a potential troublemaker. If a terrorists can move about with real or fake ID's and use cash for purchases, the terrorists will sometimes win. Thus, the "real" solution that will come out of the national, or world, ID debate is to have the ID double as a monetary transaction and eliminate all cash. This concept "solves" a huge number of problems such as drugs, robberies, gambling, prostitution, terrorists, embezzelments, etc. All transactions could be scanned by computers and troublemakers tracked easily. And, to truely protect the innocent in ID card theft or loss is a tattooing of the ID to a person. That seems like the only logical progression of steps IMHO. ID card = no.They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
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Rendsburger
Pilot
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posted 10-26- 06:28 AM
oh, i didnīt know that u in the US didnīt have ID cards.
We in germany have them already and now they are talkin about to make them more save. They are discussing to use finger prints on the ID card or using biometrical datas like face measures datas.Anyone remember "whe are watching you" Rendsburger IP: Logged |
Karaya 2
Pilot
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posted 10-26- 07:11 AM
I say no! What next? A scanable microchip under the skin of every person? It's being done already with domesticated animals. I think it's just a matter of time that something similar is trialled for use for people.IP: Logged |
Nat
JAG
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posted 10-26- 09:35 AM
ID cards wouldn't help against organised terrorism, and if you think it would you are more than a little nieve. You can't enter the US without a passport, but that never stopped drug smugglers, it also doesn't help you track their movements or stop them, if you can't stop the movement of smugglers then you wont stop terrorists, ID cards are a waste of time and money against terrorism. ID cards can always be faked, and for a terrorist organisation with money thats not going to be a problem.IP: Logged |
Snickers
Pilot
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posted 10-26- 09:37 AM
quote:
Originally posted by robert s:
The real issue that is attempting to be solved is a tracking of a potential troublemaker. If a terrorists can move about with real or fake ID's and use cash for purchases, the terrorists will sometimes win. Thus, the "real" solution that will come out of the national, or world, ID debate is to have the ID double as a monetary transaction and eliminate all cash. This concept "solves" a huge number of problems such as drugs, robberies, gambling, prostitution, terrorists, embezzelments, etc. All transactions could be scanned by computers and troublemakers tracked easily. And, to truely protect the innocent in ID card theft or loss is a tattooing of the ID to a person.
When Bush signs into law the bill that will be before him today, you will lose far more rights than requiring an ID card.... Tatooing? Not necessary. Embed a smart chip in the card that contains information that includes the persons digitized thumbprint and retinal scan. This could also go a long way to stopping identity theft. Add to this emergency medical information as well as family history.... If you want to drive you are required to get a drivers license aren't you? (Don't dive me the "Driving is a privilige, not a right." BS. In California your work is probably far enough from your home that if you couldnt drive you couldnt work (at least not where you work now. So if you lose you license you lose your "privilige" of getting to work)). If you want to be in the US you will have an ID card.... I still dont know if it sounds like a good idea. FYI - It is NOT an idea that Bush or the FBI are pushing. Its just one that crops up now and again. This would be one of the "agains". IP: Logged |
Sunray
Pilot
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posted 10-26- 10:24 AM
Three words. Seig heil, comrade. You already have ID. It's called a driver's license and your Social Security card. And if it's being abused the way our Social Insurance Number is, I feel as sad for ya'll as I do about my country.IP: Logged |
Smokey
Pilot
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posted 10-26- 01:54 PM
Bush is on record as against the ID card.IP: Logged |
Todesvogel
Pilot
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posted 10-27- 12:02 PM
Did you guys see "Trail of a Terrorist" by Frontline on PBS?It was awesome!!!! In summary: it described the life of Ahmed Ressam, the guy who was caught on the US/Canada border with a car load of explosives. Apparently Canada has thrown out the welcome mat to Terrorists. Ahmed Ressam entered Canada by claiming refugee status. He claimed he was falsely accused of being a terrorist in Egypt. Many of the people in his "cell" also claimed the same. He was collecting CAN$500 a month in welfare, while stealing Tourists' luggage and building a fake Canadian identity. Later he was recruited into the Jihad training camps in Afghanistan, with the aim to come back to participate in the Jihad. Blame Canada! (just kidding) [This message has been edited by Todesvogel (edited 10-29-2001).] IP: Logged |
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