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Author
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Topic: An interesting read on the terror subject.
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Spanky the Mad Dog
Pilot
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posted 09-13- 01:19 AM
   
Very interesting artical about the this disaster. "It was possible to watch the cream of the nation's political analysts and commentating classes, hour after hour, without ever hearing the word "Israel", unless in the context of a salutary teacher in how to deal with Muslims. One could watch hour after hour without hearing any intimation that these attacks might be the consequence of the recent Israeli rampages in the Occupied Territories that have included assassinations of Palestinian leaders and the slaughter of Palestinian civilians with the use of American aircraft; that these attacks might also stem from the sanctions against Iraq that have seen upward of a million children die; that these attacks might in part be a response to US cruise missile attacks on the Sudanese factories that had been loosely fingered by US intelligence as connected to bin-Laden. In fact September 11 was the anniversary of George W. Bush's speech to Congress in 1990, heralding war against Iraq. It was also the anniversary of the Camp David accords, which signalled the US buy-out of Egypt as any countervailing force for Palestinian rights in the Middle East. One certain beneficiary of the attacks is Israel. Polls had been showing popular dislike here for Israel's recent tactics, which may have been the motivation for Colin Powell's few bleats of reproof to Israel. We will be hearing no such bleats in the weeks to come. The attackers probably bet on that too, as a way of making the US's support for Israeli intransigence even more explicit, finishing off Arafat in the process." http://www.counterpunch.org/ IP: Logged |
rattlesnake
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posted 09-13- 02:50 AM
Boy, just doing a little thinking tonight...... Messed up!Ok, granted these guys (counterpunch.com) are not mainstream (they purposely try not to be). There are some interesting things you haven't been hearing on CNN. Some of the crap they mention is irrelevant. I read the whole article. Conveniently points out all that we (The USA, our leaders, etc..) are doing wrong. Where is the link on their website on "How We here at counterpunch.com suggest we fix all that is wrong in the world". Its easy to be a critic isn't it?? And just to waste some more of my time - I have to bitch a little. quote:
The eyewitness reports of the collapse of the two Trade Center buildings were not inspired, at least for those who have heard the famous eyewitness radio reportage of the crash of the Hindenberg zeppelin in Lakehurst, New Jersey in 1937 with the anguished cry of the reporter, "Oh the humanity, the humanity". Radio and TV reporters these days seem incapable of narrating an ongoing event with any sense of vivid language or dramatic emotive power.
Who really gives a shit on how the reporting is done. These guys are amazing critics. Who cares!
I was in shock when I saw it on TV. I couldn't believe what I was seeing. It really was like watching a movie - we are so conditioned anymore by all the things we see on TV, special effects in the movies, all the violence half-way around the world. It almost makes us desensethesised (sp?). The guy that did the radio report of the Hindenberg was standing right on the tarmac when it exploded and fell to the ground- damn near at his feet. If these people setting behind their desks were standing right under the buildings while the explosion rained down metal and cement on them you would have gotten a more colorful report. But who cares! Jackasses! I just get tired of people criticizing! Its very complex! Our World Leaders dont have an easy job and we ALL make mistakes that can jack up things tomorrow or 30 years down the road. The simple truth is that our Brothers, Sisters, Fathers, and Mothers were murdered yesterday by someone that felt MY country wronged them. This terrorism solves nothing! It stirs up more hatred and problems and only shows how frigg'n dumb they are. You got our attention! It isn't going to change how we feel about Israel as a Nation, make us ease any sanctions, stop supporting out Allies, etc.... You just pissed us off is all. The more I think about this the more helpless I feel. We really have little control over things from here on out. A lot of things just got even more complicated September 11th and "our world" is going to change for us here in America. (Not saying this wont affect all of us throughout the world). I am concerned about what will happen next. Well, I am tired. Probably shouldn't have even said all this as it probably doesn't even make much sense.
Thanks for listening guys. I appreciate all of your thoughts you have posted too. We are all feeling it. Pray.
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Jerry
Pilot
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posted 09-13- 11:01 AM
Nothing interesting about it all Spanky. It's a bunch of crap. It conveniently leaves out the facts that it's the Palestinians who are slaughtering Israeli civilians with suicide bombers - specifically going after civilian targets such as discos, buses, schools and market squares. While the Israeli's have targeted military and security people and facilities. Yes, some innocent Palestinians have been caught in the crossfire but most of them were firing on Israeli troops at the time. Hopefully some of the Palestinian's celebrating the WTC attack will also get caught in the crossfire.IP: Logged |
Nat
JAG
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posted 09-13- 11:33 AM
innocent Palistinians.. thats almost laughable. I'm sorry, I knew some palistinians, and sympothise with them for their problems, but not for what they do, and then last year after I saw them murder those 2 off duty part time soldiers in the palistinian police station I lost an ypity for them I had at all. Their children from a very young age are taught to hate, taught to kill Isrealis, most of you can't imagnig this, you'll hear me say it, but it wont go in. The children actauly want to kill isrealis, their parents not only condone this, but will activley support and train them.I'm not saying that every palistinian is this way, the ones you don't see on TV are possibly people just trying to live, but thats a majority. What annoys me is how the US has voiced it's almost outrage at the Isrealis killing all of the top PLO and Hamas members it could find, outright assasinations, and then yesterday those same people were saying how they had the right idea all along. To ke that shows just how detached and realy uninterested they have been in the past, saying somthing was wrong, but didn't ealy care anyway. Today it's like saying "Welcome to the real world America" As a European, and a former British Soldier, I'm glad to welcome the USA to this "real world", but God do I wish it could have been for bette reasons than the death of so maney innocent people. But I do hope that now with your help, the "real world" can be made safer for us all. In Europe we're as guilty as any of letting things get this bad, not attacking terrorism as hard as we should, trying not to upset other goverments, hell, our SAS were put on trial for killing 8 IRA terrorists in Gibralter that were just about to set off a number of bombs that would have killed or injured hunderds of people, can you believe it, they got put on trial for killing terrorist that were about to kill hundreds! Whos side are we on here anyway! Now though I can hopefuly look forward to a real war against all terrorism, it's just so sad to say that this is what it has taken to bring that about  IP: Logged |
Spanky the Mad Dog
Pilot
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posted 09-13- 02:29 PM
Hey boys, when you steal a persons land, ya get whats coming to ya as far as I have seen.
Obviously they feel strongly about their causes, WHY IS THAT? You guys might lay your life on the line for you country, as I would. But would you walk up to somewhere with a bomb straped to your chest? Belive me there is a differnce. I havn't done enough research on the Isreali situation (except to know that the US and NO ONE helped them out when they first formed the country, they left them to defend themselves, and its seems the US has more interests to help them out besides the fact that they are a democracy) to say exactly what is happening and why. BUT, we all know that its not just the Palistines at fault here. ALOT of people feel that the Isrealies have brought these problems on themselves at times. I was bringing a NON mainstream thought to the table, I didn't write it so don't attack me, I find the article makes some very valid points. If you don't agree with them don't attack me. Someone said that the writer only critizied and didn't offer any solutions. Since when is that his job? He is a writer, he is passing along things as he sees them. I havn't seen alot of mainstream media offering any solutions either. [This message has been edited by Spanky the Mad Dog (edited 09-13-2001).] IP: Logged |
Spanky the Mad Dog
Pilot
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posted 09-13- 02:48 PM
Another interesting story. I'm sure you guys will love this one. It points out some thoughts of people in ME nations. Such as: "Gathered around the TV set at a crowded cafe in downtown Cairo, customers watch repeated scenes of the blazing World Trade Centre with little sign of regret.
"It is American weapons after all that are killing Palestinian children and civilians," one said. Gamal Mohamed, a 40-year-old government employee agreed. "America has committed many crimes," he said. "Now it is time for Americans to understand how other nations felt when they were bombed and shelled by the most advanced US weapons." But ordinary Egyptians were at odds with their government, which has roundly condemned the attacks in New York and Washington. They were not celebrating - as some Palestinians did on Tuesday - but there was a sense of satisfaction that the United States has finally shared in the suffering that the Middle East has been experiencing for so long."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,551035,00.html
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Da Jug head
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posted 09-14- 01:37 AM
Spanky,Somethng you should know that your sources and the palestinians never seem to mention. Isreal was a desert at the turn of the century. Arab nations didn't even consider it worth having for runnimg sheep. Around 1911, Jews started moving back to Isreal, and with their sweat and tears, Isreal started to bloom again. When they first started, the Arab nations thought it wsa a great joke as they felt the land was worthless. Lo and behold, once the Jewish people proved the land could be fruitful, the Palestinians who- now get this- NEVER HAD NATION- screamed this was Their homeland and moved in, claiming it was their land. In many cases they drove the small groups of Jews off the areas they had so painstakingly developed. This is something the entire world community, and especially the Palestinians choose to ignore. Just remember that
A) This WASN'T the palestinians homeland before this century
B) They decided to build a nation on other people's work cuz they had been too lazy to do it for themselves. Do some research. You'll find out who the land should really belong to. I used to be for a peaceful settlement between the 2 peoples and independent rule for both. After researching this, I came to realize the Palestinians don't deserve to have a nation of their own, especially as long as their main concern is not a Palestinian nation, but the elimination of the Jewish nation (getting a nation of their own they consider the first step). In addition if you do some more digging, you'll find eliminating a Jewish state is also high on the list of every hardline Middle Eastern Islamic government. IP: Logged |
Pachy
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posted 09-14- 04:28 AM
Whoever owns the land - that is as much a religious issue and an historical issue, peace efforts had been made.The Palestinian authority had recognized the state of Israel. Palestinian controlled terrirories had been established with Israel's approval. But then again Israel continued to create settlements inside the Palestinian territories, wasting the peace efforts and refusing to comply with UN decisions. Personally I think both sides are to blame. There are from both sides religious fanatics who think they have a god-given right on this land, and deny the existence of others. But you can't deny Palestinians suffer a lot. Hundreds of them have been killed over the last year. The Israeli attacks have made the Palestinian authority totally powerless, leaving more room to the fanatics and terrorists. IP: Logged |
Da Jug head
Pilot
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posted 09-14- 08:40 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Pachy:
Hundreds of them have been killed over the last year. The Israeli attacks have made the Palestinian authority totally powerless, leaving more room to the fanatics and terrorists.
The problem with this si it usually turns into a "which came first, the chicken or the egg" argument because you can say the same thing about the terrorist attacks on Isreal.
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Spanky the Mad Dog
Pilot
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posted 09-14- 11:34 AM
Well acording to the map in rattlesnakes thread A LONG time ago the whole freaking area was Palistine. Then they Jews say that in the bible it says its theirs. Well to me the bible is a work of fiction so it doesn't exactly hold alot of wieght in my book.
Anyways, they are going to have to work together.
Israel seems to only want peace if it doesn't have to make any compromises. And that seems pretty much impossible. IP: Logged |
Jerry
Pilot
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posted 09-14- 11:46 AM
If you believe that the Bible is complete fiction then you're dumber than I thought! It is a written history of the Jews. Sure, a lot of it may be religious "visions" or interpretations that may not have happened but much of it is actual history. To discount it wholely as a historical reference only show your ignorance and bias.Sorry Werner, if you want to move this to Flame Wars then do so. But I can't take this guy's rantings any longer. He seems to be as pro Palestinian as I am pro Israeli and he's on the wrong side! IP: Logged |
Psi
Pilot
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posted 09-14- 12:24 PM
Spanker, you tell us how much you appreciate us not forcing our religion on you, why don't you take a note out of your own book and to do it here for those that DO believe. I'm with Jerry, but I think I said long before him, you're dumber that I thought...P Do yourself a favor, shut up! IP: Logged |
Jeeves
JAG
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posted 09-14- 02:44 PM
Actually--- this be my territory...and it is close to being moved. I must admit-- seeing Jerry and DanW on the same side is somewhat foreboding  All kidding aside though-- you guys know where to go if you feel you must get volatile.... ------------------
Brought to you by the campaign for a better Dauntless! Jeeves =FC= IP: Logged |
Jerry
Pilot
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posted 09-14- 03:43 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Jeeves:
I must admit-- seeing Jerry and DanW on the same side is somewhat foreboding
That is what America is all about. Dan and I are both Americans above all else. Spanky hasn't a clue what that means. IP: Logged | |
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