posted 08-28- 05:55 AM               

By the way, the AI now handles the juef128 pretty good. Taxi and take offs are a GO!(not to mention flying)
CGs are rotated pretty much with those swepted back wings as well(as seen in OPS)!
Have a nasty little plan too, that should follow shortly after her release.

posted 08-29- 09:06 AM               

Werner

posted 08-30- 08:51 AM               

I think Werner put it best. SDOE really has the advantage of being an excellent base for builders who can create and talk about how to best implement new ideas. But for gameplay, perhaps that has been its own worst enemy, as the online standard was obsolete soon after it was settled. The initiative of the Crew will hopefully help alleviate this problem, but, then again, isn't this a similar approach that Oleg proposed, in the sense that the standard is centralized?

posted 08-30- 09:12 AM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gecko:
The initiative of the Crew will hopefully help alleviate this problem, but, then again, isn't this a similar approach that Oleg proposed, in the sense that the standard is centralized?

---

I don't believe this is so - Oleg & co. act like a filter so planes can be rejected, the Crew is just trying to repackage what is produced into a scheme that's less of a pain in the *** to download and more importantly maintain.

Werner

posted 08-30- 10:49 AM               

Gecko, we wont be patroling aircraft that have been built anymore than they were in the past for inclusion into the Plane Pack. In our case the same "rules" apply to aircraft that are built for the BP, or for those going into Addon Modules, just like before, if the plane is beta it doesn't get in, or if the FM is miles out, but nothing different. We're just organising what we've got now into more reasonable sets, I actualy think that this approach will help remove the old complaints that SDOE is a builders sim, because the Online Standard set of aircraft are fixed and will only be updated when needed, not everytime there are 3 or 4 new planes.

I'm realy looking forward to the day we can unviel the BP, and I'm realy glad that the whole community is behind us.

~Nat~

posted 08-30- 11:23 AM               

MAYBE after the crew does its stuff and redoes the plane pack, just maybe we will have some online play again. But it will NEVER rival IL-2 in numbers. I will never be able to jump online at any hour of the day and get a game in.

Too many people have left, AND too many of the plane builders ONLY model I never see them online playing. I used to be online pretty much everynight of the week that I could and I barly ever seen any of the people building the planes.

Well the flyers have moved on, its mostly only builders left, so this is now a builders sim. And unfortunatly there is even problems with building stuff.

IL-2 is a FLYERS sim, I want to fly guys and I can't do it here, so where do you think I will be going?

Even after the crew redoes the PP, how many people will be online? Will I be able to fire it up at any time and play SDOE online? Nope never.

If both sims are about the same in gameplay I'm going to play the one with the people playing, not the one that lets people release planes themselves, that won't matter if no one shows up.

posted 08-30- 11:41 AM               

What sim are you talking about BTW?

Remember IL-2 does let you add, they would just prefer to do the FM/DM themselves and make sure all the planes are solid releases.

I know no one belives that will actually happen but we could at least wait and see. Its only in Olegs best interest. If they have new planes coming out, then they keep the fans interested in IL-2 and guess who will buy the next game? Everyone who enjoyed the first and say it grow and expand.

posted 08-30- 11:55 AM            

I just think that openness was the best thing that happened to SDOE. Where SDOE failed was in not being open enough.

For instance, SDOE gave you the ability to make new planes, etc. but didn't consider what this would mean to the game's playability. What if you could "load" new aircraft into SDOE through the SDOE front end, and group sets of aircraft? What if you could just hit the "PP6.1" button and SDOE would turn on and off the various par files, .sm's, etc? What if you were prompted to download a newer .sm if you had a mismatch?

All these problems could be addressed if SDOE was truly open, i.e. open source. The semi-open source isn't the same.

Imagine if SDOE were free, and versions were ported to Mac and Linux. People could download it just to try it out. The hardcore Linux guys would have a flightsim they could tinker with. A huge group of developers would look at OpenPlane, since they knew thier efforts would grow over time to make something much better than the commercial market would offer.

posted 08-30- 12:15 PM               

And you seem to be forgetting wings with wires.

Yes there is someone working on a sim based on the openplane engine.

posted 08-30- 04:39 PM               

That's my take on it, anyways.

Werner

posted 08-31- 11:27 AM               

I just am amazed at how blind and spoiled to the core the FSSDOE community has become.

I appears that if you are not immediately granted access to the source code, flight model, damage model, and engine object modification, the offending simulation is shallow, close-minded and short sided.

"How spoiled we've become"...

FSSDOE is a blessing to the "tinkerer"... But in actuality it is not the rules to measure other simulations against. And those who do, are as narrow minded as those they accuse.

FS and OpenPlane are a wonderous thing. The talent and the inspiration in this community is mind-blowing... Sadly, few too many of you are willing to accept that in reality, that most simulations will not now now nor in the future, offer the vast access to the program that FS and Openplane does.

Oleg be he right or wrong, has choosen to control the content of his simulation for a number of well thought out reasons. To sit here and question his integrity, motivation, and intelligence is spiteful and viciously bias.

posted 08-31- 03:18 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sv:
IL-2 is a game, SDOE is a sim

---

Huh? I'm sure you have a very extensive knowledge of the mechanisms behind SDOE and thus a good insight into IL2 via your work on WwW, but I think that's stretching it a little. IL-2 is no less a simulator than SDOE, unless it's online paralysis that we're simulating.

I think a lot of the debate here is because we all measure sims different ways. By its very nature the SDOE community tends to measure the strength of a sim by the extent to which we can add to it, and so by that yardstick guys like wil don't like IL2. On the other hand there is the question of playability of which playability online is about the only reliable comparison you can make sim to sim - and in that area even the IL2 demo puts us to shame. It is in our power to close the gap a little, and I hope that "The Crew" are able to do this. Knowing this, I'm surprised that you (Zur) wouldn't have expected this group to judge IL2 from that mindset. As someone wisely said in another IL2 topic, I'm glad both sims exist, so I can have a taste of both worlds.

Werner

posted 08-31- 04:20 PM               

------------------
Snickers
=FC=
Thou shalt maintaineth altitude, lest the earth rise up and smite thee.

posted 08-31- 05:13 PM               

You can model more parts of the working aircraft in SDOE. This is the only sim I know of that you can model suspension and see it react to the ground. It is also the only one I know of that you can model an engine, one cylinder at a time and have damage to each one of those cylinders alternatly. There is so much of the aircraft you can model in SDOE that it is mindboggling.

As far as SDOE dying, not a chance. There is still a strong support for all versons of MS Flight Sim. Even the first one!

I am very impressed with IL2 and find it mesmerizing but it will not hold up as long as SDOE has if it remains close.

posted 08-31- 08:15 PM               

Now as I've said in the past, I'm looking forward to the full release of IL2, but that wont stop me from wanting to build aircraft that fly, rather than making a model that may or may not be added sometime, and wont even be me making it fly, thats why even if IL2 is the best ever sim produced, I'll still be here

posted 08-31- 10:51 PM               

But, just when you thought it was safe to go back in the war torn skies....see SimHQ News. FGN Online ( who? But yes, it is a web site ) has news that Jane's Attack Squadron - remember that one? - is now alive and kicking again. Too little too late? Or can this new outfit, who have signed to use the Jane's name and title, bring a Il2 look and feel to the European Theater? SDOE builders and modellers may want to take note, see if there is anything SDOE can beat them to the punch on - or don't need to.

Anyway, another title to watch for, and for me, to add to my shelf. Hopefully, not just to sit on the shelf, like WWII Fighters does.

But in one of the screen shots, the 51 cockpit looks mighty familiar. I don't care for the external appearance, though, at this point. Terrain looks ok.

------------------
nealg=FC=

posted 08-31- 11:15 PM               

I have a lot of pretty sims. I have a lot of pretty sims that are too much of a pain to bother adding stuff to. I have a pretty sim called SDOE that has lived for a long time on my computer and still is a lot of fun.

IL-2 will be just another pretty sim sitting next to my dozen other pretty sims and I don't think I'll have as much fun as SDOE. If you bother checking to see what games I play the most, you'll find the list to be games that are different each time I play. Properly programmed games can handle dynamic universes and the community that stands behind these games are more than happy to QC any additions to the game.

Anyways the point is that any game the community is free to expand has the better chance of living long after the company is history. I've never heard screaming and kicking here about people cheating with SDOE, which is the main concern that Oleg has stated with 'Open' simulators.

posted 09-02- 11:18 PM               

Plus I have heard him talk of the issues of cheating, and I have mentioned that it doens't happen here to my knowlege because the system is built to detect it.

I think he has valid issues. And I can't wait to see how it works out.

The good thing is that the game starts out with alot of planes already flyable.

Not nearly as many as SDOE has now but they will hopefully all be solid well made planes, and it makes up for the lack of planes (compared to SDOE anyways) in other ways that SDOE can't compete.

posted 09-03- 02:09 AM               

Anyways those were the planes on the eastern front.

It wasn't a heavy bomber war.

There is also a TON of planes in the works. I wish I could remember the link to the IL-2 plane building page, some sweet looking planes coming down the pipe.

posted 09-03- 02:26 AM               

http://www.il2center.com

Take a look and see how many planes are being developed.

posted 09-03- 04:52 PM               

See, why IL-2 isn't an open game like SDOE.