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Author Topic:   Dark Blue World
Vahnatai
Pilot
posted 07-24- 09:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Vahnatai   Click Here to Email Vahnatai     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Found this in WW2OL forum:

Historical Background - make sure you read this before you go see the movie
The movie story begins in 1939 with occupation of Czechoslovakia (Slovakia split off to become a pro-nazi state) by the German Army, the Wehrmacht.

In 1938 Czechoslovakia had a well-armed and well-trained army, plus excellent chain of forts along the whole border with Germany. Czech tanks and guns were world-famous and Czech arms industry including the Skoda factory was second largest in the world. As such, Czechoslovakia was a thorn in the eye of Hitler, who just added Austria to his reign. But Czechoslovakia also had defense treaties with France and Russia, obliging both sides for mutual military help in case of an attack, and this had to be dealt with first.

Hitler used the large German minority living in Czechoslovakia, mainly around the border in so called "Sudetenland", as a reason; he claimed that the Sudetenland Germans are ill-treated. He requested that Czechoslovakia gives over "Sudetenland" to Germany or it will be faced with war (Sudetenland was one-fourth of the total territory of Czechoslovakia, it contained all Czechoslovak graphite and zinc, more than half of coal and half of its chemical industry, not to mention all the border fortifications).

When thus threatened, Czechoslovakia turned to France for help. French prime minister, Dalladier, and British prime minister, Chamberlain, weren't ready for war yet at that time. They thought that the best solution is "appeasement" - just giving Hitler what he wants, hoping that it will be enough for him and that war will thus be prevented.

Peace was the preferred choice before any treaties, so the French encouraged the British to solve German demands by peaceful means and to help them get out of their duties towards Czechoslovakia. In September 1938 Chamberlain met Hitler in Munich; as a result of these talks he (Chamberlain) warned Czechoslovakia what can happen if they don't pass the demanded territory over to Hitler, and not to mobilize. He gave Czechoslovakia 24 hours to reply.

Czechs replied that the diplomatic note is "de facto ultimatum, which is usually sent to defeated nations, not a demand on a sovereign country", and it appeared that there will indeed be a war. But Chamberlain forced Czechoslovakia not to make this reply public, and warned them that "German armies are ordered to cross Czechoslovak borders, if the Czechoslovak government doesn't accept German demands by 2p.m.". This in fact meant that Chamberlain has become an ally of Hitler; faced with a prospect of war they could not win, deserted by all their allies (they knew that the Munich treaty was also arranged with France), it was decided by the Czechoslovak government to give in - and give over Sudetenland (you can see Sudetenland marked dark on the map inside hangar in the beginning of the movie - the German officer points at it and talks about it triumphantly: "Yesterday we were here...").

This decision (not to fight) of course dealt a huge blow to the morale of the Czech army, which was very much ready to fight; in a way the fact that the army obeyed its orders and laid down its arms is quite impressive.

Chamberlain went home, triumphant, claiming "I have brought you peace".

Having lost much of its territory, industry, and all of its modern defensive fortifications, the rest of pretty much defenceless Czechoslovakia was occupied by Germany just few months later, in March 1939. Slovakia split off to create a pro-Nazi state under the former priest, Tisso (Slovakia later declared war, among other nations, on Russia and United States, which is quite amusing, considering its size and importance).

Germany took over complete armament of the Czech army, and the whole arms industry. Just as an example: Hitler thus gained 244 LT vz.35 tanks, at a time when he only had 98 of the comparable Panzer III tanks of his own. German crews were promptly trained for these new tanks, and mass-production of even more tanks in Czechoslovak factories continued, in the end equipping several German armored divisions; thus the "peace" Chamberlain bought has de facto made the invasion of Poland and later the "Blitzkrieg" attack on France possible for Wehrmacht - one-third of the tanks used in Blitzkrieg were of Czech origin.

This is the reason why in the beginning of the movie you find German officers taking over the biplane aircraft, and all the Czech officers (including the main heroes) very much humiliated.

The Germans made only one mistake: probably having many other more important things to worry about, they discharged all the Czech army personnel, including pilots, and made civilians of them (the pilots were offered to enter the Luftwaffe, but as far as I know not a single Czech did); they did not lock them up. The Luftwaffe has later paid for this mistake dearly. Absolute majority of trained Czech pilots have escaped the country during the following months (just like the movie heroes Slama and Vojtisek), to fight against the Germans elsewhere.

Pilots and air force personnel created surprisingly large percentage of soldiers that escaped to fight against the Germans. Within one year (1939 to 1940) over 1270 military and civilian pilots escaped, over HALF of the total number in the former Czechoslovak Air Force.

Small number of them went to Poland, where they weren't very welcome; their feelings about the Poles weren't too nice, either (Poland took the opportunity of German occupation of Sudetenland to grab some Czechoslovak territory for themselves, too). Few of them have, however, participated in the fighting against Germany, and the rest later escaped elsewhere, mainly to Russia, where they were interned.

Majority of pilots went to France, which was (maybe also because of the embarrassment) not willing to employ them just yet; they had to enter the Foreign Legion in order not to be deported back to the (by now) "Protektorat Bohmen und Mahren" under German control. Were that to hapen, they were likely to be executed there for treason... When France entered the war, over 500 Czechoslovak airmen were already there; by May 1940 this number has risen to 803 (Czechoslovak ground units in France by 25th of May 1940 numbered 11 400 men).

When France entered the war against Germany, the French had abruptly changed their mind and suddenly found themselves in dire need of trained pilots and more than willing to employ the Czechs and Poles (the Polish being significantly less numerous at that time, mainly because they had much less time to get to France and undergo training). By that time, many Czech pilots were shocked to experience the low French morale and defeatism, but they grabbed every opportunity to fight the Germans nevertheless.

During Blitzkrieg Czech fighter pilots shot down a total of 154 German aircraft, losing 18 dead and 30 wounded; their total share of victories in the French air force was about 12%, corresponding to their numbers in frontal fighter units. This means that if a German pilot encountered French fighter aircraft, more than one time in ten it would be flown by a Czech pilot. By the end of French campaign two Czech pilots were among the top 10 French aces - Cpt. Vasatko and Lt. Perina, scoring 14 (resp. 13) kills.

(This period is not actually shown in the movie, only mentioned; when Slama talkis to the British officer Bentley, he demands: "My boys are asking when can we finally fly, Sir. We know how to fly, Sir. Some of us already have combat experience from France, and here we are just waiting and waiting...")

After the defeat of France, majority of the Czech pilots moved on to Britain to continue fighting; the British were of course hungry for well-trained and (by that time) battle-experienced pilots and they had no problem at all in employing the Czechs and the Poles. Many Czech pilots recall how pleasantly surprised they were with the British organization and readiness to fight, which was in sharp contrast to their previous French experience... Between June and August 1940 total of 932 Czechoslovak aviators were evacuated from France to Britain, which is 97 percent of all pilots left in France by the end of Blitzkrieg.

More men were arriving meanwhile from other parts of the world, and by the end of 1940 the Czechoslovaks in the RAF numbered 1287 men.

All the pilots underwent a short (but for many of them it felt way too long) training (the "fighter bicycles with a radio" scene from the movie is very historical) - after which they could enter combat again.

97 Czechoslovak fighter pilots managed to do this in time to participate in the Battle of Britain (which is the time period when most of the main events in "Dark Blue World" happen). They shot down a total of 56 German aircraft in the Battle, and probably shot down or damaged 20 more, losing 7 dead (you must remember that their training and experience was singnificantly superior to that of the average RAF pilot at that time).

Czechoslovak pilots served in many British squadrons, and 4 Czechoslovak squadrons were formed eventually - 310, 312 (both fought in the Battle of Britain) and later on 313 Fighter Squadron (these squadrons together in 1942 formed the Czechoslovak Fighter Wing) plus 311 Bomber Squadron. They participated in air combat over Europe until the end of the war, taking part in many operations over France, fighting very successfully (6 kills, 15 damaged, zerolosses) in the huge air battle over Dieppe, covering the invasion of Normandy, and also providing fighter cover for US Flying Fortresses in their daylight bombing raids (as seen towards the end of the movie, just before Slama has to bail out due to engine problems).

Czechoslovak pilots in the RAF achieved a total of 172 kills, 57 probable kills and 112 enemy aircraft damaged (plus 6 V-2 bombs shot down); the 311th Bomber Squadron dropped 1,123,289 kilograms of high-explosive and 92,925 incendiary bombs; later on in the war as the squadron was assigned from Bomber Command to Coastal Command due to inability to replace extremely high losses of personnel, the squadron attacked a total of 35 German submarines and 4 surface vessels.

480 Czechoslovak airmen in the RAF had lost their lives and 51 were captured.

On the ground the Czechoslovak Independent Armoured Brigade (numbering 6500 soldiers and 307 tanks by the end of war) fought from Normandy onwards.

Many Czechoslovak soldiers and pilots also fought against Germans on the Russian side, somoe fighter piltos were even sent to Russia from the RAF in 1944.

Another thing that might be worth mentioning is that a Czechoslovak airman, when captured by the Germans, was faced with automatic death sentence for treason (since technically they were "citizens" of the Third Reich). Only thanks to protests and threats of repercussions against German POWs by Churchill were these death sentences not carried out, but rather postponed until "victorious end of war". This however didn't stop the Germans from taking revenge on those they could reach - many family members of the pilots ended up in concentration camps, never to see their sons/husbands again.

After their return home in 1945 many of the pilots continued to serve in the Czech Air Force, flying their beloved Spitfires (which were purchased from the British). After Communists took power in 1948, supported by the Russians, they suddenly found themselves kicked out of the army and persecuted; few managed to escape from their country once again (for the second time in 6 years), remaining ones were eventually arrested. In political trials based on constructed accusations they were sentenced to serve long terms in prison and on forced labor. They were simply too "infected with the ideals of democracy" to be left free, and the Communists didn't repeat the mistake the Germans made...

This is why in the movie you find Slama and Machaty in the cruel surroundings of Mirov prison, and why the former SS-man Doctor Blaschke says to Machaty "You wouldn't go against us like you did if you knew what a sad song they will play for you when you return home, would you...", to which Machaty replies: "But we would, Doctor, we would..."

All the aviators were eventually freed by the end of 1950s, having served many years in prison; but they still weren't allowed to hold proper jobs and were persecuted in many different ways. They were only "rehabilitated" during the political changes in 1968, only to be followed by Russian invasion - again, they witnessed the occupation of their country by foreign army for the second time.

Some of the veterans are still alive now, and we only hope to be able to make up at least in small part for all the injustice done to them. They were indeed heroes and they did some amazing things, only to find their world falling apart around them yet again after the war (just like Slama did in Tmavomodry Svet); this is an integral part of history and also the reason why it is included in the movie - their story simply would not be true if it was left out.



Englishunofficial site
http://sorry.vse.cz/~xuchj02/DarkBlue/index2.html

Czech Official site
http://www.tmavomodrysvet.cz/new/index2.htm

Trailer
http://tms2.wo.cz/film/video/trailer.mpg

[This message has been edited by Vahnatai (edited 07-24-2001).]

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Poniat
Pilot
posted 07-25- 03:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Poniat   Click Here to Email Poniat     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Great read, Vahnatai.

A small correction to the: "...grab some Czechoslovak territory for themselves, too"

This territory was in fact a 'disputed territory' which on grounds of plebiscite held after 1918 was to be a part of the ressurected Polish state. Poland at the time fought hard for its existence and couldn't intervene when Czechoslovakian force took tha "Zaolzie" territory. Finally, in 1920 Poland managed to fend off the Bolshevik armies but was in no position to dispute those territories any further.

Obviously such a move (reclaiming Zaolzie) in the aftermath of the German invasion of Czechoslovakia) left a bad aftertaste but technically this was only a fulfilling a longstanding international agreements.

This was always brought up during my schooldays in the then communist run Poland as an example of imerialistic and capitallistic, stinking attitude of old Poland, the true reason was obviously covered up like many historcal events.

One more thing, the highest scoring pilot of the Battle of Brittain was J. Frantisek, a Czech pilot who like many others joined Polihs Air Force after the fall of his homeland and fought with them (303 squadron) untill his death in a flying accident in 1940.

Waiting to see the film, I hope they'll be showing itin the cinemas over here!

Cheers

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9./JG3_Poniat

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Burkey
Pilot
posted 07-26- 04:08 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Burkey   Click Here to Email Burkey     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
apparently they have used scenes from the old battle of britain movie and revamped them. Only cost something like 5 million to make. It will probably put that epic pile of shit Pearl Harbour to shame.

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Spanky the Mad Dog
Pilot
posted 07-26- 04:41 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Spanky the Mad Dog   Click Here to Email Spanky the Mad Dog     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

Its looking like a great movie, I love some of the biplane stuff in the trailer.

I sure hope it comes to NA at least on video, and I hope its subtitled instead of dubbed. Both would be best.

I also heard that it used some footage from battle of britain, but that it used unused footage from that movie.

It sure looks purty

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Jonners
Cadet
posted 07-26- 07:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jonners   Click Here to Email Jonners     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hmmmmm....that bit about a love triangle sounds horribly familiar to me, lets hope that this is the only thing it's got in common with 'that' film.
Apart from the looks, of course
(I LOVE SPITS)

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'After a scrap, I usually have to drink my tea through a straw' - S/Ldr Barton

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Spanky the Mad Dog
Pilot
posted 07-26- 07:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Spanky the Mad Dog   Click Here to Email Spanky the Mad Dog     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

Yes once again love in a war movie, seems its just not possible to make one without it.

One good thing is there is tits in the trailer, that seems more promising. Is there any tits in stalingrad or PH?

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Jerry
Pilot
posted 07-26- 08:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jerry   Click Here to Email Jerry     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
PH was made by Disney. Disney doesn't show tits. Too bad, I bet Snow White has a good set.

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Burkey
Pilot
posted 07-26- 09:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Burkey   Click Here to Email Burkey     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Jerry, sounds like you've got good health insurance!

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Jerry
Pilot
posted 07-27- 12:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jerry   Click Here to Email Jerry     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes, there is a very good mental health provision that I use frequently.

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Jonners
Cadet
posted 07-27- 03:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jonners   Click Here to Email Jonners     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Boobs are always a welcome distraction...

Jerry, LOL , I always thought Pocahontas was well racked

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Vahnatai
Pilot
posted 07-27- 11:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Vahnatai   Click Here to Email Vahnatai     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
like boobes eh? go to the czech site..click on "Klub" --> "scramble!" ---> "Letecky Marias" ---> "Spustit Nru" its a titty matching game!

[This message has been edited by Vahnatai (edited 07-27-2001).]

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Gunner
Pilot
posted 07-30- 03:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gunner   Click Here to Email Gunner     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I want this movie on DVD so bad I can taste it!!
My home theater is pining for this show!

The trailer is great, and I want to add it to my WW2 collection.

Thanks for the info Vahnatai!!


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=Campaign For A Mitchell=
-=BAB=-Gunner

[This message has been edited by Gunner (edited 07-30-2001).]

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Jonners
Cadet
posted 07-30- 06:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jonners   Click Here to Email Jonners     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ha-ha Vahnatai, LOL thanks for the link.
Here's a nasty thought for yer - how many of those lovely pairs will be wrinkling up around their kneecaps by now !!!
Such is life - sigh!

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'After a scrap, I usually have to drink my tea through a straw' - S/Ldr Barton

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Vahnatai
Pilot
posted 07-30- 02:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Vahnatai   Click Here to Email Vahnatai     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

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Jonners
Cadet
posted 07-31- 04:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jonners   Click Here to Email Jonners     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Superb smilie, where'd you find it?
Had me in stitches

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Vahnatai
Pilot
posted 07-31- 01:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Vahnatai   Click Here to Email Vahnatai     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
here is my smiley index:
http://allhaildaelf.homestead.com/smilies.html


here is some italian site:
http://forum.html.it/forum/faccine/

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Jonners
Cadet
posted 08-01- 08:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jonners   Click Here to Email Jonners     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for sharing that great selection, Vahnatai....

[This message has been edited by Jonners (edited 08-01-2001).]

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