posted 06-18- 12:39 PM            

How many of you are going to be blind sheep and put up with this? Soon, you'll be renting harddrive space from Bill Gates. Capitalism my ass. Corporate dictatorship. I'm glad I'm learning how to use Linux. Sucks have to compile crap all the time, but I don't have Bill Gates telling me what I can and can't do with my OS. Sure, people have to make a living off writing software, but this is getting ridiculous.

posted 06-18- 01:26 PM            

Is this what you want Jerry?

posted 06-18- 02:20 PM               

If people aren't smart enough to exercise their choice as consumers at the most fundamental level then folks, we've got more serious problems than Microsoft on our hands. Maybe we are the minority here and people really aren't bothered by smart tags, or maybe they are all dumb as posts. If the latter, like I said we've got bigger fish to fry than worrying about their choice of Operating System.

Werner

posted 06-18- 03:50 PM               

About the on/off thing, Right now the beta copies have it ON as default, I think it still up in the air.

Whats the harm? Auto adding hyperlinks to MY FREAKING WEB SITE.

Even if I turn it off on my machine it doesn't effect how others will see my page with it on.

Jerry, microsofts ultimate goal would be to make everyone rent their OS from them.

Dan is there a good overview of .NET around?

posted 06-18- 04:43 PM               

As for WinXP and the code rewrite business, if that one proves as stinky as it looks right now, I'm not worried at all - lawyers on all sides will go into a feeding frenzy. Meanwhile as a webmaster I'm not convinced I want to spend too much time anyways catering to users who chose XP given all the media coverage going on. Not that I don't care about my visitors, but if they experience problems with my site because of something XP is doing to them, there's nothing I can do about it, they chose that OS. After enough of these problems crop up, watch how fast XP gets dumped. I'm waiting for those damned tags to turn Sun Microsystem's homepage into a Microsoft link-fest LOL. Ya think they might be just a little pissed about it? But I digess. Even if the users in question missed the media tid bits, if it irritates them enough they'll run screaming to their computer store and demand it replaced with what they had before.

As a non-sheep Jerry, what do you plan to do about this whole situation? Maybe I'm getting soft because I'm worn out from two simmering debates, one right here in General and the other elsewhere on the net, but I figure this situation by its very nature will resolve itself.

Werner

------------------

Abbeville Field: Dedicated to the SDOE Experience.

posted 06-18- 05:17 PM               

Except for the 'adding functionality' bit I agree with you Jerry, the market will decide, and as a consumer I decide I don't want XP so I'm sticking with win98.

Werner

posted 06-18- 10:37 PM               

"You'll never catch me riding in one of them new fangled horseless carriages".

posted 06-19- 01:05 AM               

Werner

posted 06-19- 08:55 AM               

Did you also know once XP is released, instead of MS putting out anupgrade every 2 years, you'll sign a contract that will give you free upgrades for up the 3 years? And it will only cost you 60-90% MORE than the current method of issuing upgrades.

Dan- why compile everything when most are available as RPM's for the different distributions.

From another post:

Probably why I have Linux-mandrake on both my machines. Windows is basically a gaming & SDOE OS. Hmmm, if Loki software would port SDOE to Linux, I'd spend 95% of my time there.

For those who don't know, Mandrake 8.0 is Very easy to install.

lessee . . . time to install drivers, office suite, programming utilities, simple games, video editing software (real stuff, not movie maker), audio editing software, webserver, CD burning software and financial software for the following system:
Celeron400, TNT2, Cd rom, CDRW, Adaptec SCSi card, network card, SB PCI 128, WinTV, ORB drive.

WinME- 3 hours NOT including installing updates.
LM 8.0- 35 minutes (uses Xfree w/ hardware acceleration).

Oh yeah- Linux Mandrake will auto moun your Windows partitions on a dual boot machine, allowing you to access the windows data from linux
------------------
"Da Jug"

FM question: Which end does the propeller thingy go on?
Fighter Squadron Central
ICQ: 121447410

posted 06-19- 10:02 AM            

As one person against a software monopoly, I will do the only thing I can - not buy it. As a computer science major and a aspiring programmer, I will not use their tools. Besides, they aren't required for my job.

"A wise choice Werner, refusing to buy a product that hasn't been released yet. That no one has seen in final form. That has not been evaluated publically by users. That you have no idea what improvements it might make to your computing life. Smart."

Uh, Jerry, there are thousands of people testing WinXP as we speak. Are you telling me they are all lying? I guess preview copy means nothing to you.

"Some people just like to bash whatever or whoever is successful. I put them in the same camp as people who take great delight in bashing the US just because we are richer and more powerful than other countries...and that includes a lot of anti-American Americans."

Uh, Microsoft breaks the law when it wants too....it has nothing to do with success. You seem to be blind to certain facts that have already be pointed out.

"Dan- why compile everything when most are available as RPM's for the different distributions."

Not all programs are RPMs. Sure, they are easy to use, but somethings don't have the RPM installer.

Here is some .NET stuff. Intereperet how you want.
http://www.salon.com/tech/col/rose/2000/06/30/microsoft_dotnet/

Face it folks, Bill Gates wants to control it all. He wants to take your harddrive out of your hands. Are you comforatble with this Jerry? Are you willing to rent you software from a successful company that forces features you didn't ask for down your throat?
Will you be suprised when you try to play an MP3 on Windows media player only to find out that it WON'T work? Will you automatically use MSN messenger service because it happens to be sitting on the desktop, installed by the OS that you are going to rent? Do you feel comfortable having to call Bill Gates up and ask him if its OK for you to reinstall WinXP because you bought a new harddrive?

---------------------------------------------
Only Microsoft benefits
"The biggest beneficiary of XP is Microsoft," Reynolds said. "It's a strategic platform for them, for .Net and all the other services they want to bring to bear, as well as growing revenue through services."

Microsoft's .Net software-as-a-service strategy will be part of Windows XP as the company looks for other ways to sell software, such as on a subscription basis.

"In the long run, the sooner Microsoft gets everybody to Windows XP, the better off they'll be," Reynolds said.
---------------------------------------------

Enjoy your new OS Jerry.

posted 06-19- 10:30 AM               

Which version of Linux you using?
Get this. The machine with the printer was booted to windows., the other was in mandrake. I used the html based CUPS printer manager. It not only FOUND the printer on the windows machine, it came back with the right make and model and gave me a list of drivers to choose from! Since I assign the IP addresses manually, the machines us the same IP address on the local network whether in Windows or Linux. I can use the remote printer from the other machine regardless of the OS the "print server" is booted in.

Cool huh?

Linux Mandrake also allows you to partition a hard drive with a graphical interfaceduring the install process into whatever format you want and will allow you to create FAT/FAT32 partitions too. Go here for a screenshot:
http://www.linux-mandrake.com/diskdrake/

They are working on making it capable of doing a non-destructive partition resizing when installing mandrake on a Windows machine.

------------------
"Da Jug"

FM question: Which end does the propeller thingy go on?
Fighter Squadron Central
ICQ: 121447410

posted 06-19- 10:40 AM               

Wow what a long post!

------------------

posted 06-19- 12:15 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by Vmartini:

I'm not an out and out MS fan, i'd use Linux if it was more stable than Win98 (itmay well be) and i had someone to show me how.

---

You have NO idea how much more stable Linux is than Win98 I had to reinstall 98 3 times in one year. During that time frame, I only had to install Linux once.

With the hardware/software combination on my machine, I was told by a couple of IT managers they were surprised 98 didn't need a reinstall every 2 months. I almost choked when they told me that.

WinME is better, but still not as stable as Linux. In addition your data transfer rate (with the same modem) will jump 20-25% over what you see in Winblows.

posted 06-19- 12:33 PM               

The one thing MS cant do is force everybody to buy their NEW software. If in the future it will be pay-per-use-per-gig of harddrives or pay-per-use of the OS, you can reinstall all of your old stuff (If you didnt get rid of it) and just stick with that the rest of your life!

posted 06-19- 01:27 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by DanW:

As one person against a software monopoly, I will do the only thing I can - not buy it. As a computer science major and a aspiring programmer, I will not use their tools. Besides, they aren't required for my job.

Bravo! That's what free enterprise is all about.....as long as your choices are being made on the merits of the products and not some predjudice because they are from MS.

Uh, Jerry, there are thousands of people testing WinXP as we speak. Are you telling me they are all lying? I guess preview copy means nothing to you.

Testing? Why would MS waste all that time and money with thousands of people testing, when their intention is to shove it down our throats whether we like it or not? The fact that they are testing tells me it's not a finished product yet. If it's not finished how can you make an educated decision not to buy it? And aren't testers under ND's not to talk about the product? So how could they all be lying or telling the truth if they're not talking in the first place? A preview copy is just that...a preview...a trial balloon. Like a movie sneak preview, part of the testing procedure. Yes, we can learn a lot from preview copy comments.

Uh, Microsoft breaks the law when it wants too....it has nothing to do with success. You seem to be blind to certain facts that have already be pointed out.

Dan, I don't know about Texas, but in the rest of the country you are innocent until proven guilty. Your so-called "facts" are still in dispute. The case is still being reviewed, so put your rope away. The hanging hasn't been scheduled yet.

Here is some .NET stuff. Intereperet how you want.
http://www.salon.com/tech/col/rose/2000/06/30/microsoft_dotnet/

Thanks.

Face it folks, Bill Gates wants to control it all.

Yes he does. That's the goal of every business. Market share is the name of the game. MS is no different in that objective. They have just been more successful at it, and that's where the government steps in if in fact there is monopoly. [/B]

---

Let's face it folks, Dan and others go after MS because they have such a prominent and visible individual at the top and they can't stand to see one person with so much success. It's personal to them. How many vicious attacks do you hear about Intel or AOL who dominate their portions of the computer industry? Until recently Intel had almost total control of the microprocessor market and AOL, now that it merged with TimeWarner is going to become an even more powerful player on the internet. AOL TimeWarner is bigger than MS. Why don't you go after them Dan? Why don't you go after the software developers who support the evil Mr. Gates by making their products compatible with Windows instead of Linux or Apple OS? Yes, I will enjoy my operating system Dan, you enjoy your Apple and the half dozen or so programs that it runs.

posted 06-19- 02:19 PM               

Sounds like Dan and jerry agree more than they think

Jerry, I've seen this issue from a side most of you haven't. I've also read the court transcripts. MS does stuff deliberately to PREVENT cross -platform software from being written. That is Gates biggest fear. Yes, this matter is in the transcripts. Yes they have done some VERY shady things because of this. And, they have ticked off some very big companies in the process.

Stop and wonder why there are already several Linux distributions that will take full advantage of the Itanium already available, and why Linux will run full bore on the SledgeHammer AMD is working on while MS still doesn't have a 64 bit OS?

posted 06-19- 04:33 PM               

Competition is one thing, but when you tell a retailer- if you sell any product but mine, We'll pull your OEM status and make you pay full price, well . . .

Most companies allow retailers to sell competing brands WIHTOUT threats and rely on producing a better product.

The details on this are rather nasty, but I had 2 friends directly affected by this tactic and some others the press never talks about- and one lost his biggest client because of it.

Lessee, another tactic applied to software developers- if you make your product crossplatform compatible we will pull your windows compatible certification and your access to the MS developers stuff (sites, upgrades, tech info, etc)

This is called blackmail in most circles but MS calls it "protecting their market share"

Or, how about lisencing technology and then violating the lisence agreement, then telling the company to kiss off cuz they know that a court battle would kill the other company.

Let's not forget about Stacker. MS ripped the code off and included it in Windows. By the time a decision was reached (against MS) the reduced sales because of the MS stunt and the court battle broke the company. Microsoft paid the owner a fee to buy the copyright since the company was now defunct- and a lot of people were out of work.

It gets even worse- you really need to read the transcripts from both the earlier case and the latest one to get the whole picture.

posted 06-19- 08:37 PM            

Who says I'm going after MS? I just think their products sucks and suckers like you have know clue about the alternatives. Hence, you are sheep or a lemming.

"It's personal to them."

Yeah, and I lose all my sleep over it...yawn

"How many vicious attacks do you hear about Intel or AOL who dominate their portions of the computer industry?"

BZZZT!!! Nice try buddy. 1. AOL and Intel haven't been found guilty in a court of law and haven't violated the Sherman anti-trust act. 2. They both aren't and never were monopolys.

"Until recently Intel had almost total control of the microprocessor market and AOL, now that it merged with TimeWarner is going to become an even more powerful player on the internet"

Err...intel never had total control over the microprocessor market. Ever heard of Appple, AMD or sparc?

"AOL TimeWarner is bigger than MS."

That's debatable.

"Why don't you go after them Dan? Why don't you go after the software developers who support the evil Mr. Gates by making their products compatible with Windows instead of Linux or Apple OS?"

I'm not a states attourney general Jerry, its not my job.

"Yes, I will enjoy my operating system Dan, you enjoy your Apple and the half dozen or so programs that it runs."

Uh, who says I have an Apple? Enjoy renting your software. baaaaaaaah baaah.

"DJH, I'm sure MS does a lot of things to enhance their position and harm the competitors. It's called "business". If their actions are proven illegal then they will be punished, rightfully so."

They have been Jerry....aren't you paying attention? You really don't know what you are talking about Jerry. You are in over your head. Do-all, screw-all capitalism doesn't always jive in the software sector.

posted 06-19- 09:03 PM            

Why must you think that anyone that doesn't share you views must be anti-capitalist?

How come you don't allow any leeway in your view as to what a pro-capitalist and anti-capitalist person is?

posted 06-19- 09:44 PM               

MS is the most capitalistic company in the world. They played the game and won. When a person hates them and what they stand for as intensely as you do, then you are hating capitalism. That's why I pigeon hole you.

I'm not saying they haven't become a monopoly and shouldn't be reigned in for the sake of more competition. But I don't have this paranoid hatred of them, I admire them for their success and I do believe that their products are, like everything else, not perfect but worth what you pay for them. Ever owned a perfect car? What did you pay for it?

Corporate dictatorship? ROFLMAO You've been reading too much science fiction. Oooooooow....the big bad evil busnessman is going to rule the world. LOL Hell, they couldn't do any worse than big government.

posted 06-20- 04:47 AM            

Ya, I know... I'm a strange and possibly insane individual...

posted 06-20- 06:46 AM            

No I didn't. I keep asking you to show me but you can never post a link. I think you are making it up.

posted 06-20- 06:51 AM            

I suggest you do some research on this matter as well. You may quite suprised at their ability to influence everything they touch....even with shitty, unsecure software.

posted 06-20- 03:37 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by DanW:
"You did read the article about how our government spent 5 trillion dollars to defeat poverty didn't you? Now there's a success story, NOT. "

No I didn't. I keep asking you to show me but you can never post a link. I think you are making it up.

---

For the benefit of others, the link was posted days ago in Flame Wars where Dan originally asked for it. That's why I asked him here if he had read it. But forgive him, he's a little slow.

posted 06-20- 03:48 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by DanW:
"Corporate dictatorship? ROFLMAO You've been reading too much science fiction."

I suggest you do some research on this matter as well. You may quite suprised at their ability to influence everything they touch....even with shitty, unsecure software.

Nope, never owned a perfect car either. But last time I bought one, I could get it with or without options that I wanted to have on it. Try that with your favorite OS from your friends at Microsoft.

---

Get out your dictionary Dan (you do have one don't you?...hmmmm....probably not.) "Influence" and "Dictatorship" have different meanings. Besides, who's in charge of this Corporate Dictatorship you are so afraid of? Do you hear voices that no one else hears? Maybe they will tell you. LOL

And oh by the way, the options you order are only options because the auto manufacturer said they were. Try and order a stick shift for most cars. Try to get a color not offered. Order a different engine than the 2 or 3 they offer. Tell me what to do with the cigarette lighter in my cars....I don't smoke. Try and order one without seat belts. I happen to use them but a lot of people don't...why should they have to pay for them? And why should a few hundred dollar OS be perfect when a $30,000 car isn't?

posted 06-20- 04:48 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by DanW:
"Intel has the same market share that MS does."

HAHA...give me a break. I suggest you do some research on the matter. Intel doesn't have and never did have over 90+% of the world market share. MS did.

---

Intel's market share of the microprossor market was 87.1% in the 4th quarter of 1997. For the full year of 1997 their income from microprocessors was 92% of the world's total. Today it stands at 75%.