posted 03-05- 08:14 PM               

Jeez whats the US coming to when a kid can't even pull of a shooting spree properly.

posted 03-06- 12:07 AM               

ArgonV.

I was being sarcastic.

I was trying to point out that the easy access to hand guns in the states is only leading to more problems like this.

posted 03-06- 05:00 PM               

Da Jug, I don't do prayer, But I do feel sorry for the children and parents involved.

What is my kid doing?, Sitting with mom grunting and eating his hands.

What is his hopes and dreams? Eating and going in the jolly jumper.

What are his fears? Getting his leg stuck in the crib again. The sound my cordless drill makes, and when I say "howdy ho" in the Mr hanky voice, man that scares the crap out of him.

What are his aspirations? To get both hands in his mouth at the same time.

Have I told him that I love him? Yep probly hourly.

Have I told them that I'm there for him? Yes, Not sure If he understands yet though.

posted 03-06- 05:11 PM               

Yeah thats a great idea.

Why not ban any movie book or video game that are in anyway violent while your at it.

Have you ever read Fahrenheit 451 by Ray Bradbury?

If not it should be on the top of your reading list.

Course it should be on the top of everyones reading lists.

posted 03-06- 05:39 PM            

In Canada the gun regs are much, much stricter to than the US (stating fact here, not stating opinion) yet these incidents happen all the same. Bet you don't hear about that though. 2 reasons (imho)- gun attack more dramatic, and Canadian media is to American media what Curious George is to King Kong.

Anyhow, like I said, just a tid bit you guys might find interesting in your ongoing debate/discussion(s).

WM

posted 03-06- 06:39 PM            

Seriously though... the problem is in the society and the lack of interest many parents exhibit in the day to day lives of their kids. I'm an Army brat, I grew up with guns around almost everyday - so did everybody I knew - and we never had any incidences like this. Because our parents knew everything (and I mean everything) we did and did not hesitate to discipline us appropriately when we screwed up as well as counsel us when we were confused.

posted 03-07- 12:19 PM            

Now having said all that... it is far too easy for kid to get a gun. In many cases it is the parents weapon. In these cases, the parent should be held just as responsible as the kid (and in many states this is now the case). I enjoy gunshows but I do think there should be more regulation over how they operate (many teens acquire guns through these shows). I also believe a federal level licensing program should be instuted...not to license the guns though, but to license the owner (kinda like a concealed weapon permit). This license would require a significant investment of time and effort by the holder to acquire (education and practical handling courses beyond the token scope at which they exist in some states now). Along with this license comes the legislation that says if your kid uses one of your weapons to kill you will be tried for murder. The license would have to be renewed (like a drivers license) and would require passing a fairly tough wirtten exam for re-issuance. Without said license, purchasing any firearm would be illegal - with stiff penalties for both the puirchaser and the dealer. These measures would keep weapons out of the hands of the yahoos who don't have the werewhithal to be responsible owners while neither invading the privacy of the gun owner or unduly preventing any adult from legitimately owning a weapon. Education breeds responsibility - ignorance breeds death. I fully recognize that this would be an expensive proposition... so levy an ammunition tax to pay for it (semi-sarcastic on this tax idea)...

-Stark

P.S. - Most issues in the US can be (when simplified) seperated down Liberal-Democrat/Conservative-Republican lines... but gun control is kind of an odd one. It has supporters and detractors on both sides of the lines. You could go through a room of liberals and ask how many support gun-control and probably get more yes answers than you would in a conservative room but it is by no means a Liberal-v-Conservative issue. Ex. Smokey (flaming liberal- meant in a good way Smokey! ) stated above that he believes it is a societal problem as opposed to a gun problem... I (Conservative bastard - as Smokey might say ) happen to agree with him...

[This message has been edited by Stark (edited 03-07-2001).]

P.P.S. - I realize that the licensing structure I briefly outlined above has some holes in it (like a lpse of license for someone who already owns a weapon)... I have thought about them and have ways to deal with them but did not want to get into the complexities here...

posted 03-07- 12:45 PM               

Huh? What could be more cowardly than gunning down unarmed people? I think that's the very definition of cowardice. As much as I dislike Bush, he was exactly right to call this kid a coward.

The father of the kid is an idiot and should be locked up for negligence. You don't lock up guns with a key lock... it's too easy for someone to get a hold of the key... you use a combination lock. Guess he never heard of those.

The kids who teased that kid are also stupid. After Columbine, they should have had the sense to know that harrassing people is dangerous business. Hate to say it, but these shootings might actually increase civility in schools... because everyone will be afraid of everyone... which is not a bad thing if you think about it.

posted 03-07- 02:32 PM               

George Bush IS an idiot to call him a coward. He probably would have called a guy with shell shock a coward too. In my opinion if a 15 yr old (15 yr old, a child) is so mentally unstable as to commit such an attrocity, he needs help, not to be made a public scapegoat by the (god help us all) most powerful man in the world.

posted 03-07- 03:09 PM               

With all due respect... that's BS. I have no sympathy whatsoever for someone who goes on a rampage like that. There are kids all over this world that are suffering way more than that kid has ever suffered. Lots of kids get teased and beat up... only a miniscule percentage respond the way this kid did. That kid needs to be locked up for the rest of his life.

If shooting someone in cold blood isn't cowardice, I don't know what is.

Also, comparing this kid to shell-shocked soldiers is offensive. This kid may have had it rough, but he didn't have it that rough.

posted 03-07- 03:15 PM               

IMHO children no longer have fear and respect for adults and authority. In a nut shell... Our lovely "Doctor Spock, touchy-feely" mentality is creating children that have no respect for other and themselves... and no fear of suffering the repercussions on their actions.

In my youth I respected my parents and feared getting my ass whooped if I did wrong. Police and authority figures were revered and the thought of dealing with them were enough to cause one to question the ramifications of ones actions.

Today I see kids call their parents by their first names... offer them no respect... authority figures are geered and taunted because they have been castrated by beurocrocy.

WHY you ask?

Because you can't spank your children anymore.

All you need is some nosey self-rightous twit to see you spank your kid and "off you go" to the local jail and the possibility of ultimely loosing children. Worse yet... your children can report you just as easily.

Now... don't get me wrong. I believe their is need for laws for abuse. Problem is the definition is so broad and "grey" we've lost all parental rights!

There is a finite line between abuse and tanning your kids ass... sadly the goverment and special-interest groups see otherwise.

I tell you this much... If ever come a day where someone calls the police because I spanked my kid... I'm gonna beat the shit out'a them. The way I see it... If I'm gonna go to jail, I want to go for a logical reason.

I've had it with self-rightous, wine sipping well-doe'rs. Mind your own frick'n business and let me raise my children the way I see fit.

posted 03-07- 03:22 PM               

I just heard now that here, close to where I live in Palm Desert, in 29 Palms, California, a student overheard 2 other students plotting an attack against their school, and they even had a hit list of who they were going to shoot. Many guns were siezed. From now on I hope this is what we'll see, kids saying NO I won't allow this and doing something to stop it! Now that I have two kids, and one is already going to school this is both infuriating and scary. Parents are taking less responsibility for their kids than in the past and letting them get into too much trouble, or not even being aware of their daily activities.