posted 12-27- 09:48 PM            

Imo however, I'll wait for B17ii Tailgunner Style. I've read enough on the B17ii FMs that I'll pass on this one. I think the comment that said it best was that "B17ii is not a combat simulation, it is a personnel management simulation wrapped into an air combat game".

Werner

posted 12-27- 10:17 PM               

TS

posted 12-27- 11:48 PM               

My take so far: If you have the computer to run it, and you are a bomber freak like me, its great! The ground graphics are what I expected for such a sim. They look... ok from down low. A wee bit cartoony, but excellent from 20,000 ft where you are most of the time. I do get the feel that Im flying over the English country side from low level tho. You remember that one part from Memphis Belle where they had to land that torn up B-17? Well on such a mission, I had to do that! And I must say it felt good. The interior graphics are good too IF you have a new hi-end graphics card that can handle 32 bit textures. I have a V3 3000 and it cant so they are blurred over for me. But not to worry! A V5 5500 is on its way! If youre not in the cabin mode, but actually manning a station, the graphics are 3d. But if you are just in the cabin, the interior is mixed 2d and 3d, but mostly 2d. The pilots move realisticly and behave pretty much. But sometimes they can missbehave and do some odd things. I havent had too much time on this tho. Damage effects are superb! The tail can get ripped to shreads and real holes can actually be put in your plane not just by the skin. The engines arent that round however. I was expecting the engines to be less polygonal and more on the round side like CFS2. You can belly land aswell. But soon afterwards, you get the briefing screen. A few graphical problems Ive had so far include rainbowy textures inside the B-17 in external view (Happened once so far) and the mouse flickers in the main menus.

The sounds are very good too. Although... for the time being I cant hear my engines from outside the aircraft. This could be a bug/non included/or a sound card problem. The 50 cals sound like 50 cals and the engines are the best Ive heard. The pilots voices sound good too. But I havent had too much time to screw around with them to see if they are repeditive.

The immersion is there. If you like control, this game gives it to you. There are many options to choose from in the Options menu in both realism and sound/graphic setup. But its dumbed down. Theres no "Turn off/on bi-linear filtering" or any stuff like that. Its all based on low, medium or high. In the game, the aircraft options are much more diversified. Manual engine startup is cool, and telling your crew what to do is cool too. For once your crew are actually in the plane! I never played the origonal B-17 tho... So I cant give you comparisons. Also the bomb site is VERY complicative. I have yet to figure it all out, lol!

The views are both good and bad. So far, if you can zoom in and out in the cockpit, I havent figured it out. And alot of the internal views are very restictive. Theres no panning with the crew positions, only snap and you can only look left and right in the pilots position. But you can jump around the plane in many postions and cabin positions. Theres no fly-by, but the external view I like and the chase view is not bad at all. You can zoom in and out on both of those. You can also use the mouse for panning in external view too.

The FMs... well the B-17 FM feels good. Its a wee bit sensitive IMO, but Ive never flown a B-17 so what do I know? I havent tried the fighters out yet. When I have the B-17 all figured out, then Ill make it to the fighters. Ground handling is well done, and so far, the physics feel good. But again I havent screwed around that much with it.

I'll report back later when Ive gotten into the game more. So far my feelings are mixed. Its not horribly buggy on my system as some people say about it on theirs. The graphics arent the best, but they are good. The DM both visually and mechanically is well done. This game has a high learning curve, but I like that in this case. If you arent a bomber-type person, this game isnt for you so you fighter jockeys... BEWARE!

posted 12-28- 12:15 AM               

But being a part of the crew, on that bombing mission, was - well - the best way I can describe it is INTENSE! I let the AI handle the whole thing, just jumping in occasionally to try to get the feel of the guns and equipment and different stations. But as we approached the target, I decided to stay with the bombardier at the Norden.

What a experience! The flak...from exterior, didn't look bad...at the Norden, you could see it occasionally drifting across your view...faintly, the explosions...suddenly louder, closer..I'm thinking, come on little tabs, get there, line up, baby...then BLAM!! BOOM!! CLANG! TWANG!!...right next to me...I jumped..what the..?? Metal clanging, ricocheting, sometimes crrruuuunching...sheesh, get me outta here!! No, wait, target coming up!! Here...little more...BOOOMMM KERPLANG...come on, come on...BOMBS AWAY!!! LET'S GET THE HELL OUTTA HERE!!! CRAP.....!! WE MISSED!!...PILOT, TAKE IT...LET'S GO!!! A scream, I don't know from where....I am actually shaking a bit....who's hit? No answer...making for home...no fighters sighted except our little friends ( 2 flights of P47's ). As we reach the channel, suddenly someone is crying over the radio....he's hurt...who is it? Bomb doors won;t close....we're damaged worse than I thought...it's the Tail Gunner...quick! Waist gunner goes to help, bombardier mans the waist gun...but TG's hit bad....he's crying, bleeding....he'll freeze or bleed to death...have him bail out...it works...whew...suddenly, another voice, weak, calling for help...it's the pilot! Slumped in his seat...unconscious? Co-pilot leaps to assist...suddenly, the plane begins to spin in a downward spiral!! What? Outside...Jesus, the wings are gone!! BAIL!! BAILLLLLL!!!!!

Ahem. As you can tell, I got a bit wrapped up...I couldn't help it. May be the most intense gaming experience I have had in 10+ years of computer gaming. I cannot comment on the flight characteristics, the FM's, the fighters ( only flew a P47 for about 2 minutes ) the accuracy of the equipment, or it's relevancy as a flight sim at all. But as a immersive gaming experience - well, for me anyway, I already got my 45 dollars' worth out of it, and I have only a bit over 2 hours time in it.

I won't say 'get it' or 'don't get it' - what I like may not work for you. And the bugs...pretty well documented, and not related to system specs, it seems. So far, for me, it has worked 'out of the box' - and I no longer have what is viewed as a top notch system ( PIII 500E, Abit BX6-2 MB, 256 Meg RAM, SB LIVE! Value with Liveware 3 and latest drivers, new GeForce 2 MX video with Detonator 3 ver 6.31 drivers, Voodoo2 accelerator, DX 7a, Win 98, CH Combatstick/throttle/rudder pedals using CTFJ 3.2, Cacheman, letting Windows manage my swap file on C: w/ 5 gig free out of 8, and using the ConservativeSwapFileUsage=1 tweak ). I figure I am lucky so far. I had way more trouble with the BoB demo alone.

Anyway, for those who might enjoy that type of experience, I posted my sensations with it. Sorry if I ran a bit long...oh, I might add - if you are still awake - I run it in 800x600x16 and for me, the graphics are superb; I did set the terrain to Speed, but may try it at balanced later. And, for those who know me...I am not a bomber jock at all. In fact, I will likely never manually fly this....or at least, not for some time.

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nealg=FC=

posted 12-28- 04:38 AM               

Tail read huge reply by (i think judge) on the combat sim article feedback forum for another take on the game.

posted 12-28- 06:58 AM               

I have only had it for two days, but so far I have been having a ball with the gunnery aspects, and even flying the "uber" fighters. Sure, they are overpowered, and unspinnable, but as long as you know that going in, and realise they are all that way, you can have fun! And isn't fun what it is all about?

I could pick this game to death, with all the things it doesn't do, doesn't have, or does poorly, but then I could pick SDOE to death in the same way. I still hold out some hope that a patch being worked on (hehehehe) might address it's most glaring issues, and I have heard that the user community may be given the tools to make some modest changes as well. Guess we will see.

In the mean time, I have to get back to the top turret! My tail gunner just called out 109's at 6:00 low.

posted 12-28- 11:56 PM               

After hours of playing, I FINALLY got my computer to freeze up when I was switching views too fast. I like gun hopping tho! Now there were some boring parts... like flying to the target. I didnt time skip once on my first mission and it took forever! But, thats realistic. So I found my self viewing the plane and playing around with the crew members and attempting to figure out the Norden bomb site. Mind you this game takes patience to learn. I can now also start up my engines in about 2 minutes.

I also dogfighted some... The AI in this game is not to be underestimated. I put them on Elite.. and they can be!

So basically, all Im waiting for is my new graphics card so the bomber interior looks good. The fighter cockpits look great, as they are 3d... but the bomber compartment views are 2d and they look like crap with my V3 3000 that cant handle hi-bit textures. Oh well...

Things I dont like... Out of all the plane crahes Ive seen in this game, the fuse never gets completely destroyed when it hits the ground and goes BOOM. WWII Fighters did the same thing... And the planes seem to have lighting/shading problems in external view. Also, the ground and sky textures seem to "swish" in when ever you view say the sky and look at the ground real fast or look at the ground and then look at the sky real fast.

posted 12-29- 03:41 AM               

I go into the strategic map to setup my strike mission, and I can't remove secondary and tertiary bomb targets.. I can't drag them back up to the top like the manual says. I also can't remove or move reconnasiance flights after I've set them.

When I drag the IP waypoints the waypoints before them go off in some crazy direction off the flight path and I can't drag them back. Setting WP altitudes by dragging on the diamonds takes many tries the values only sometimes change when I drag.

Still haven't been able to get a mission going

TS

posted 12-29- 05:32 AM               

I press H and i get no arrow.

I taxi around and I can't find a dotted line.

I take off but the rest of the bombers in my flight don't even start their engines??

TS

posted 12-29- 06:18 AM               

Now the other bombers start their engines but they still don't follow me. I restart the mission under computer control and they follow then. Into the air.. press time skip (enter key) ... boom at my desktop.

You would think after 12 hours playing this i could actually fly to the target.

TS

posted 12-30- 01:18 AM               

Also, take off right away! I dawdled on the runway and the b17 behind me revved up and ran into the back end of me while i was taking off.

Enter doesn't seem to CTD me now... my navigator got lost going to target because of the clouds and when I went to the map view and dragged the bomb back onto the target to make him have another go at it he insisted on flying all the way back across the channel first.. is there a way to skip a waypoint??

TS

posted 12-30- 06:59 PM               

Next mission, the target was clouded over again. I wanted to switch to the tertiary target.. clicking on it, dragging the bomb onto it, nothing would divert to it. The navigator was lost and just kept circling.

I wanted to take control so i could fly below the clouds or fly myself to the second target. I tried going into the bomb view and shutting off bombadier control but as soon as I moved to the pilot position the AI took control over the bombadier and turned on his flight controls again.. after about 1/2 hour of circling without being able to do anything I alt-f4 to exit the game.

B17-2 has the most klunky, horrible unusable interface it's been my displeasure to use. After a week with this program I'm ready to turf it.

TS

posted 12-31- 01:09 PM               

Pete, you feel cramped in this game eh? Well youre supposed to! Ever ben in a REAL B-17? Its cramped in there! Especially with all those people and gun shells on the floor and your heavy leather jacket on with your flak jacket.

But given that, the internal view system does suck. Theres no zooming in or out inside, and you cant look left or right in a few of the gun positions. That ticks me off the most!

posted 12-31- 01:59 PM               

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nealg=FC=

posted 12-31- 07:47 PM               

That wouldn't bother me so much if there weren't so many UI flaws in the navigation system it really makes the game hard to play if you want to do anything but "ride along" and let the AI fly the plane.

TS

posted 01-01- 01:22 AM               

As he says,

Patch it!

posted 01-01- 03:02 AM               

yeah I love the view system in SDOE.

I feel constricted in the 190 though, the view is too far forward even at its most unzoomed.

posted 01-01- 10:03 AM            

Yeah, what is the deal with B-17II? I have it and played it for awhile but there is something wrong. It looks great and the damage is increadible. You shoot the bomber above you and realtime holes appear where your bullets hit.

But, what is it? Is it the sameness (is that a word?).

Maybe we are spoiled with SDOE because we can have a new item show up almost weekly to play with. You get tired of the sandbox if you play with the same toys each day.

I been thinking (yes it is painful) that SDOE and this forum is like that special bar you found. The one that only you and your buddies go to and the other guys stay away from. When you go to another bar and tell of the cool drinks and stuff back at your bar the guys there just say "ya been there but didn't like it".

So here we have our own bar serving new drinks every week and good friends for shooting the shit and all wrapped in that warm cozy feeling of home.

Hey, it's our thing and if the other guys don't get it, too bad.

So B-17II, the great hope from across the sea, crashed on the beach on the way over. Remember when some of our fellas made a big deal out of leaving this forum and going over to B-17II because, among other things, the SDOE B-17 did loops? Hey, I wanted it to be the golden child too, but not this time.

You can't blame Wayward. This was their baby, they put heart and sweat into B-17II but that wasn't enough. Maybe the project was too big, maybe to far ahead of todays tech. Someday there will be a sim that can do all that Wayward hoped B-17 would do, but for now I am glad I have SDOE.

Ramble over-

posted 01-01- 02:43 PM               

In the end, it all comes down to taste and what you are used to. Im a diverse sim player. So I never really get settled in with any flight sim. (A well rounded flight simmer? Its a bloody miracle I can remember all the keyboard commands for all these sims!) Flight sims I play the most are those with the most surprises and addons. Hopefully, B-17II will become that way. But if not... It will sit on my shelf after Ive had my fun and it wont come back out again unless I want some fast gun turret action.