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Author
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Topic: Meanwhile in the world...
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Werner Molders
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posted 11-10- 12:01 AM
   
Not to be cheeky, but I couldn't resist the title for this one.Anyhow, I've noticed that we Canadians have kept largely out of the Bush-Gore issue, so I'd like to open up a forum for discussion about our own election. Rather than derail the discussion from the start with my own views, I'd like to ask what my fellow Canadians think of the election, the campaigning, and the debates held over the last two days. I respectfully submit that we avoid characterizations of the leaders themselves (and yes I mean more than Stockwell Day, there are plenty of slurs against the other leaders too). Frankly I think it'll be a more enlightening, positive discussion that way. After all we're not trying to convert people, just to discuss the future of our country. Werner Molders  ------------------
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Tailslide
Pilot
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posted 11-10- 12:47 AM
Between the ultraconservative reform party and the liberals who couldn't find western canada on a map I'm starting to wish Nader was Canadian hehe. I find the over the top PC adds more than a little offensive as well. The only parties that dont seem to be running a negative campaign are the liberals and the NDP (are they still around? ) TS [This message has been edited by Tailslide (edited 11-10-2000).] IP: Logged |
Werner Molders
Pilot
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posted 11-10- 09:06 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Tailslide:
Between the ultraconservative reform party
Come on Tailslide, that's like calling the NDP communist. I've decided today that there are a lot of closet fascists at the U of C, and unlike what you're probably thinking, I don't mean CA supporters. On the contrary, there is a band of leftwingers (affiliation unknown) who have decided that free speech is a right that applies to everybody except "c"onservatives, and especially Alliance supporters. While the campus Liberals continue their smear campaign and bogus advertising (ie: "Keep ALBERTA in CANADA - Vote Liberal!" WTF?????), the campus Alliance supporters (of which I am not a member, for the record) have had every one of their posters badly defaced, destroyed or removed within 12 hours of them being posted. I don't care what people think about other parties, but that is absolutely disgusting and shameful. What hypocritical, fascist pigs these people are. Werner ------------------
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Tailslide
Pilot
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posted 11-10- 09:36 PM
Calling the reform party ultra-conservative is pretty accurate IMHO. Theres nothing wrong with being ultra conservative but some of their ideas are too extreme for me. There is a strong young conservative group at UoC too I went there five years and it seemed like the business students were quite active in that area. TS IP: Logged |
Werner Molders
Pilot
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posted 11-10- 10:10 PM
Well, seeing as the Reform party is DEFUNCT...Yes, there are conservatives at the University, but they don't go around defacing or destroying the election materials of the NDP or Liberals. ------------------
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Tailslide
Pilot
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posted 11-10- 10:52 PM
FYI for those not familiar with Can. politics the reform party has gone through a few incarnations. Originally the WCC (western canada concept) founded by Preston Manning it tapped the alienation western provinces felt since we effectively have no say in federal politics since we do not hold enough seats to affect the outcome of the election usually. One of the premesis was the seperation/independance of western canada from the rest of the country. This then became the reform party and eventually managed an almost complete sweep of the western provinces but still is limited to heckling the government as the official opposition party (the party not in power with the most seats). Realizing there was little room for growth without a change of image to gain ground in the east they renamed themselves the alliance party and had a change of leadership. TS IP: Logged |
Werner Molders
Pilot
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posted 11-11- 12:51 AM
While factually correct (until the last couple of lines), TS your analysis of the transition from Reform Party to C.A. uses a choice of words that represents the kind of rhetoric that Joe Clark was stuck on during the debates. The Reform party was dissolved, and the PCs would have too if it weren't for Jurassic Clark and his Ahab-ian quest (ok, so I invented a word, work with me  ) to have another crack at the PM's job. In fact, the PCs are a shadow of their former selves. So many have joined the Alliance that the PC party speaks only for a minority of western conservatives, ontario conservatives, and until Chretien restored EI funding levels, Atlantic Canada. I should point out that the CA is more than the Reform Party with a paintjob and new front man - If it were that simple they wouldn't have gone and drafted a new party platform. Sure it is "c"onservative like the Reform platform was, but what do you expect, the transition to go from conservative to socialist? Like I said when I started this thread I'm not trying to have any one person impose their views on anyone else, myself included. I'm not saying you're a liar Tailslide, because your view is one that is held by a significant number of people, certainly, I'm just expressing a slightly different view held by another significant number of people. What I didn't expect was this to become a water-cooler chat between just the two of us! LOL Where are you guys? Jaguar? Kopper? Silas? Werner ------------------
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Tailslide
Pilot
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posted 11-11- 01:46 AM
I can't really say I'm a big supporter of any of the parties just trying to make some comments as an "outsider". Who knows I may even vote for them It's been interesting watching the alliance party evolve I think I was your age when the WCC was around. What's your opinion on the leaked document from the alliance? TS IP: Logged |
Werner Molders
Pilot
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posted 11-11- 01:57 AM
I'll be honest, I haven't read it myself, but I have heard that it's the basis for these accusations of 'secret agenda' against the Alliance. Personally I doubt that a party vying for the national government would publish a couple hundred copies of a 'secret' document and distribute them around the country, the underlying plan being "hehe, just wait until we get elected and then TADA spring this on them!". That's pretty much the fastest way for a party to self-destruct so I think accusations of secret agenda are anti-CA opportunist propaganda. That said, however, I do believe it is a "discussion paper" the same way the Klein government is discussing a possible sales tax right now - not policy, just ideas. That means it still ought to be taken seriously by all of us, but for what it is, not what Chretien and Clark would like to have us believe it is. Whoa, that was longer than I intended. TS - What do you think of the Liberal's own "secret" paper saying their strategy in this election is to "carpet bomb" Day and the CA? Werner ------------------
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Spanky the Mad Dog
Pilot
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posted 11-11- 02:26 AM
Spanky here...
I'm watching but don't have much to add except that I'm leary of a Overly Religious person in charge of the country. As long as you leave your religion at home then fine but don't try to impose any of it on us citizens. IP: Logged |
Tailslide
Pilot
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posted 11-11- 12:34 PM
And so the mudslinging continues:HAMILTON, Ontario (Reuters) - Canada's increasingly acrimonious election campaign hit new lows on Friday when Prime Minister Jean Chretien compared his main right-wing opponent to a dishonest car salesman.
Chretien, speaking the day after a televised debate filled with insults and recriminations, also repeated his assertion that Canadian Alliance leader Stockwell Day wanted to destroy the country. -- Looks like the americans are going to be the polite and reserved ones this time around IP: Logged |
Werner Molders
Pilot
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posted 11-11- 12:45 PM
LOL. Seriously though, why is Chretien running scared? I mean he's all but guaranteed another majority government - why does he have to resort to these wild-man attacks against Stockwell? I don't think its very statesman-like.Werner ------------------
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Werner Molders
Pilot
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posted 11-11- 12:51 PM
Spanky - There are enough minorities and people not of the same religious affiliation as Day in the party (including atheists) that will stop Stockwell if he tries to impose his personal beliefs on the country. I think this is a distinction people are failing to make - Stockwell as a few beliefs personally that he sets aside because he is representing the party. Let's face it, we aren't all made from ideological cookie cutters, so while we the voters are struggling to find a party we most identify with, the fit is never 100%. Why should we expect any different from the leadership? Granted it should be a much better fit, but I think it is and the 5% of discord is being screamed at us by the CA's opposition, while the CA themselves aren't returning the same in kind. I don't believe for a second that Jean Chretien wouldn't run things a bit differently if he didn't have a cabinet to influence him and hold him back. The same is true of all leaders - that's why we have parties in power, not individuals. I know that the last line is patently obvious, but after being democratic for so long I think people forget why its parties and not just follow-the-leader.Werner ------------------
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Tailslide
Pilot
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posted 11-11- 02:12 PM
I think the Alliance plan for a flat tax rate is just a plain bad idea. All it would do is shift the tax burdon from those who can afford it the most to those who can afford it the least. Sure it would mean I would make some more money personally but at what long term cost to our society? Higher crime rates, homelessness, more jails.. all the problems that exist down south could quite easily take hold here. TS
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