posted 11-08- 02:27 AM               

Strangely I will miss Al Gore, he was a worthy opponent to be sure. I hope he stays in the public light, I think there is much more he can do. His bad luck was to have to serve with Clinton, which he did with commendable loyalty.

And certainly Gore supporters should be happy with the results, you can not lose by less, and I am certain that the spirit of the last 8 years will continue to have a positive effect on America. I do think it was not all because of Clinton, and so much of what we had must still be here. GW will tap that spirit and energize the country.

What is your biggest fear and your fondest hope?

I look forward to GW rebuilding America's trust in the government and trust in its own people, an age of responsibility.

My only fear is that consumer confidence might be threatened by a real or perceived notion that the government will be taking less care of us.

Some are saying that Lieberman is the next strong Democrat, I hope so - I admire this man - and he is very lucky not to have to serve with Gore, because I fear that he might have suffered the same fate as Gore did under Clinton.

It was fun to debate here, thank you all, I learned allot and have more respect for the liberal viewpoint than I did before.

-Sv

posted 11-08- 02:38 AM               

Anyway, don't think our days of locking horns are over! :-) I still think this Bush guy is going to be a gigantic train wreck for this country and I'm sure he and his policies will be thoroughly discredited within two years. Mark my words.

posted 11-08- 08:10 AM               

I guess I should not have suggested I wanted to see Gore around, now I am screwed!!!!

It would be better for the recount to go in Gore's favor. He has the popular vote, I hope he wins for the country's and Bush's sake

Gore will not cause any major problems for America, but Bush would have doen great things... well maybe the recount will still go Bush's way for better or worse...

posted 11-08- 12:32 PM               

Seriously, interesting end to a election...I have to say, I hope Gore doesn't win; I'd hate to have the Internet re-invented.

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posted 11-08- 01:41 PM               

If Bush wins though, at least I'll have some tax money coming to me for a new entertainment system... under Gore's plan, making 50+K with no dependents => no tax breaks for me:-)

posted 11-08- 01:51 PM               

GORE: Uh... hi... it's me again. You know that concession stuff I was talkin' about an hour ago? Yeah... uh... I was just kiddin'.

BUSH: What?!?! You can't do that! You already concederated! Those Electrical College votes are mine! I trust people... no child will be left behind... help is on...

{click}

posted 11-08- 03:41 PM               

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posted 11-08- 06:33 PM               

Y'know, when I went to bed at 2:30am last night, after living through the winning of Florida by Gore, and then having it taken back again, I had actually reached a peaceful plateau, and went to bed satisfied with the results of the national election.

I know, I know, it sounds weird for someone who Propwash would probably refer to as some "Pansy-Ass Bleeding Heart Liberal Scum," but really, I was at peace with myself.

I had actually resigned myself to a Bush presidency. Why? Well, if you're silly enough to actually read my posts after the first paragraph or two, I'll tell ya...

For 8 years as an American, I have had to endure more whining than I care to remember. Everybody was whining. The Republicans about the Democrats, the Democrats about the Republicans, back and forth, back and forth.

I had a good conversation with a good Republican friend of mine today, and I said, "Y'know, it's no wonder everybody thinks Clinton didn't do anything when he was in office. The only thing people in this country were paying attention was who he had slept with before the election, and the DNA count in a semen stain on a dress AFTER he was elected."

My Republican friend laughed, and said, "No shit."

So I went to bed thinking, "Hey, y'know, really, this isn't so bad in the long run. For the first time in 8 years, we'll have a guy without a lot of kharmic baggage hanging over him.

I mean sure, the DUI thing, the spoiled rotten kid stuff, but not the kind of stuff that has been whined about ad nauseam for the last 8 years with Bill Clinton.

The Republicans think the White House has been "tainted"...they think it needs to be "cleansed"...well, shoot...okay...CLEANSE AWAY!"

Seriously, I thought to myself, "Alright then, take your Republican Lysol, and spray it with careless abandon all over the property at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

You've got the House, the Senate, and the goddamn White House. There's no real cloud over your head...let's see what you can do."

I thought for the next four years, we as a people would be able to do something we haven't been able to do for the last eight.

We'd be able to actually watch a president do his thing, with control of both the Senate and the House, and not have his work overshadowed and drowned out by a bunch of rabid zealots, intent on making him out to be the Spawn From Hell, at all costs.

I thought to myself it would almost be refreshing. Here would be the chance to let the Republicans do their "Cleansing Thing," and not be able to bitch for a while.

Shit, let'em have four years. We could actually start paying attention to what a president really does for the country, and see how he handles the economy, health care, the military, education, etc...

All without the embarassing scenario of normally intelligent, responsible individuals participate non-stop, in an unbridled witch-hunt, that will probably never be equalled for the rest of time.

So, like I said, kind of strange for me (Prop, Sv, and all you other wild-and-crazy Republican guys, really I am a MODERATELY liberal Democrat, and am probably not quite as vicious as I seem... ), I really went to bed kind of happy, thinking we'd have a new start in our country, one where I wouldn't have to listen to a bunch of political whining, by BOTH PARTIES, for the next four years.

So when I get up, what happens? I see that the count in Florida has been so close that it automatically requires, by law, that a re-count take place, and additionally, that Al Gore has won the popular vote.

Wow.

Now let's get one thing straight right now: I feel that if after the re-count of the probably 1700+ votes already assumed to go to the Bush side, and the counting of the out-of-country absentee ballots, so far estimated at 2300 or so, show that Bush has won the Electoral Votes of Florida...he's won. Period. Fair and Square.

The Electoral College is our current system, has been our system, was the system in place when this incredibly momentous occasion took place, and should be honored at all costs.

I think unless there is some divine intervention that I'm not aware of occuring, it probably isn't a real super hard guess to assume that George Dubya is the next president of our United States.

Probably the only thing I think is kind of a raw deal, is the thing down there in South Palm Beach. I think that's it, please don't flame me if I get the exact location wrong, I think we all know what I'm talking about.

I think it's sad that there could be some confusion about where to punch the card. I know when my district's voting location used the punch system, I had to look pretty darn hard to make sure I was punching in the right place.

Okay guys, you can have a lot of fun with making fun of my intelligence about this, but really, those things can get a little confusing.

And, you do have to consider that a large part of that district were Democratic voters. Now, that's not to say nobody there would have voted for Bush, but I think it's pretty easy to say that most of the folks there probably wouldn't have voted for Buchanan.

If you've seen the ballot deal on TV today, you'll know what I'm talking about.

But you know, even as basically a life-long Democrat, I'm kind of upset that this is ending the way it is.

You know, honestly, I almost wish that Bush had won the popular vote too.

Why? Oh, lots of reasons. For one, I think that Bush will eventually win when all the counting and re-counting is done, and any lawsuit put forth by the Democrats in court would eventually fail.

Also, as a student of human nature, I can tell you that even though I'm obviously not crazy about 'ol George Dubya, I can tell he is a sensitive man. Almost too sensitive.

You can tell that he really does care a lot about what those around him think. How they feel about him. I think it is important for him to feel that he is wanted where he is, and that the will of the people is behind him too.

I know, inside, that he will think about the popular vote. And I know that for his entire presidency, inside, it will affect him, just a little bit.

As an American, I wish it wasn't that way. I want to think my president, whoever he is, feels sure, confident, and supported by the people during the term of his presidency.

So for me, this was the beginning of the waking nightmare for me.

Then, the realization that results by the media on TWO DIFFERENT OCCASIONS had been totally screwed up, I just was ready to lose it.

So now, instead of beginning to live my life one day at a time, being able to finally have a really clear, almost enjoyable pastime of watching a new, basically-without-a-cloud-hanging-over-it's-head White House Machine go to work with potential backing by both the House and Senate, to be able to watch CNN and C-SPAN with interest...I get this.

Gore wins the popular vote by over 200,000 votes. 99 million people voted in the United States. The Electoral College vote will probably be won by something like 4000 votes by voters. Wow.

So instead of a smooth, seamless transition by conflicting parties, a tribute to our governmental system, I get this crap.

Chaos. Turmoil. Snottiness by both sides, AGAIN. Fighting. Infighting. Attorneys. Accusations.

Add to that a basic feeling that this country, almost dangerously passionate, is almost completely evenly divided.

Well gosh guys, just wanted to say how I felt, and see if anyone felt the same way. It's been amazing...it's been a nightmare...but in the end?

Man, I'm glad I'm a citizen of the United States, and able to watch the free system we enjoy do it's thing, no matter WHAT it does, even when it's as ridiculous as this.

I just had resigned myself to a different reality, and freaked out when I realized today that the infighting, accusations, lawsuits, and finger-pointing were going to continue.

I don't back EITHER side in continuing this battle, and only wish for a quick, legal end to this thing. I hope that soon politics can be observed as what they should be: service to the people by our elected representatives, and the quality of their service to the people.

It's been exciting these last 36 hours...almost TOO exciting...

posted 11-08- 06:50 PM            

I get the feeling that if the vote in Florida goes Bush's way then Gore will bow out gracefully. That will certainly piss off the Democratic National party but I still think he'll do it.

Can't explain why but that is the feeling I get.

posted 11-08- 06:55 PM               

No matter what my political feelings are, as an American, it's time to put aside the petty infighting, and get back to the business of paying attention to our country, and the rest of the world.

posted 11-08- 09:37 PM            

BTW - there a very convenient state by state totals list here : http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Presidential_Results/

posted 11-08- 11:40 PM               

Mk10 225th Great post man, I totally agree.

K question for you guys, Whats this whole Electoral College vote thing? And how long has it been in place?

I don't understand why they even have a popular vote if they then go and do this too?

posted 11-08- 11:44 PM               

Wow, allot in your post, very intersting. You know, I would be very at peace with a Gore victory. For one thing, if there is a recession it will take a slight toll on the poor guy in at the time.

Also there is always this relization just after your guy wins, or fo that mater, what you get that demanding job or extra challenging project you begged for at work. Now you must deliver! It is all on the line!

Great men push to do more than they are able to do, and then achieve success anyway.

If Bush gets in, I have high hopes - and so does Bush. But let's face it, it is NOT an easy job for anyone. Many trying times lay ahead, it goes with the job.

I hope to God that who ever loses the recount conceeds right away. If this turns into a fight it will damage American politics at a very vulnerable time - just when we need to rebuild faith.

BTW, consertives and libertarians should want to keep the electoral college, it is more than a symol of state's power, it affords states power. This system helps balance the power so that candidates must run 50 state election rather than one national election. This keeps the election MUCH more issue based than if were national. There are many good things about the electoral college.

I would be nice if certain very large states were broken up though, it is amazing how much power CA has, wow. I know the population is high, but the purpose of the electoral college is to let local governemnts vote rather than just a majority rule. We are a constitutional republic, not a democracy - thank God!

And to close Mk10, I do think that Bush in office could very well strengthen the democratic party. The way things were lined up. Gore would have a hard 4 years ahead. He could do very very well, or maybe not. Even if Bush does all the things I want him to do, it will still leave the liberal things open for democrats to embrace. Niether party is looking weak right now - contary to Nader's view. I think we are seeing the two parties coming closer together - and Bush/Gore - either one will get allot done I think given the political climate and American views.

posted 11-09- 01:59 AM               

Whats this whole college system?

And I thought the US was a democracy?

Now all of a sudden thats a bad thing?

posted 11-09- 02:19 AM               

The results of the Electoral College vote actually decides the winner, not the popular vote.

I think it's a GREAT system. It gives every region a real say in who should be President, and a President is really going to effect a region more than an individual. (hehe.. yea... that isn't really clear... so I'll try it another way.)

I love the Electoral College. I don't want California and New York dictating who should be the president for the 48 other states. Those folks are freaks.

Example: http://www.hillary2000.org/

Oh, and the Electoral College has been in place since the founding of the Country. Article II of the constitution, Section 1.

posted 11-09- 03:01 AM               

So what good is the popular vote then?

and why even have a couple guys to vote for that state if they have already pleged to vote one way or another.

Why have 3 guys who say yes i'll vote for gore?

posted 11-09- 03:05 AM               

But I thought this was a country by the people for the people?

Why not just split off all the states into their own little countrys?

Why even have these united states if everyone wants there own state to be so unique? and individual?

Or why not have some of the smaller states join up to form larger states.

Ah heck its just wacky, I still belive the people should vote and thats it.

posted 11-09- 08:35 AM               

We are still a domacracy, but only so far. This is the power of America and the genius of our founding fathers.

posted 11-09- 12:01 PM               

It is.

Why not just split off all the states into their own little countrys?

Then we're not the most powerful country in the world

Why even have these united states if everyone wants there own state to be so unique? and individual?

Because we can have these United States and still have every state be so unique and individual (to an extent.)

Ah heck its just wacky, I still belive the people should vote and thats it.

posted 11-09- 12:29 PM               

I recall another President who was a loser in the popular vote, but won on the 'new' electoral colege vote system - let's see - gosh, I was awful young...oh, yeah, Abraham Lincoln. And in 1865...well, if Bush does win, maybe he should not attend any public functions if he gets re-elected in 2005.

As a resident of California, I find the 'freaks' remark a tad offensive. Born in Nebraska and raised in Iowa, I recall growing up with a few that I consider freaks. California has 'em, to be sure - and most of them are in charge of something or other - and California may have more freaks per capita. But it has a lot of capita.

Write-ins for Shaggy and Scooby Doo!! When I see that, I get some renewed confidence that the USA does really still exist. Though the core group gets smaller with each passing day.

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