posted 11-03- 11:07 AM               

I don't think Bush can be criticized for getting the DUI 25 years ago (I'd rather see the media report on his being AWOL in the National Guard for 18 months ), but his lying about it as recently as 2 years ago is much more relevent.

posted 11-03- 01:47 PM               

I do think that Gore should have made a bigger deal of Bush's admitted alcohol problems - alcoholism does commonly re-ocure.

Bush is popular now, and very few people will be inclined to change their minds because of this, in fact for many this may even heighten their reservations about the other side.

Did you hear that someone from the Gore camp is taking shot's a Nader's sexual prefs? Wow, Gore, the great defender of the downtroden and repressed asking who Nader will share his bed with at the white house. Where is the press on this?

I do NOT blame the press for being liberal, I only blame people for not understanding that this is the case and filtering the news appropriatly.

As a conservative I feel that it is our (my) own fault for not being more involved in the press. Where is the great conservative press? We are losing here, and no one is keeping us out.

posted 11-03- 03:46 PM            

Mr. Bush is a liar because he failed to disclose specifics about an incident 24 years ago, saying only that he used to drink and that there were some foolish behavior in his younger days.

Therefore, Mr. Gore is a liar because:
he has failed to disclose his holdings in Occidental Petroleum in specific detail
he has failed to disclose his ownership of land in Tenn. that is being mined for zinc which has been polluting surrounding groundwater (the mining company has been cited several times by the state and federal government)

Further:
he lied when he stated that his father voted for civil rights in the 60's (Al Sr. voted against the landmark Voting Rights Act of '64 among others)
he lied when he told Courtney Love "I'm a really big fan," but when she snapped, "Yeah right, name a song Al," he said "I can't name a song." (maybe he's a fan of something else?)
he lied when he said "I found a little place in upstate New York called Love Canal. I had the first hearing on that issue." In fact, in October 1978, Gore did hold congressional hearings on Love Canal — which he apparently "found" two months after President Carter declared it a disaster area and the federal government offered to buy the homes.
he lied when he said his sister was "the very first volunteer for the Peace Corps." Nancy Gore Hunger was a paid employee at Peace Corps headquarters, 1961-64.

So I'm up to 0.10 now.

posted 11-03- 04:19 PM               

How about GW saying he served his duty in the National Guard, when in fact there is no evidence he showed up for 18 months? In fact, his superior officer during that time said he did not show up, despite orders.

How about how he said that he didn't recieve any special favors because of his father when he was allowed to skip ahead of thousands of people in line for the TX Air National Guard?

How he got into Harvard with a GPA a full point lower than the rest of the class?

How somehow he was able to slack and drink until he was 40 with no consequences?

How about GW saying that he doesn't owe his success to his father? Without his father he'd be a burnout hanging out in front of the bars in Austin. Give me a break.

posted 11-03- 05:42 PM               

quote:

---

Some of Gore's statements could be more charitably be called 'embroidery' or 'exaggerations,' but the story takes at least as many liberties with the truth as Gore has.

---

What I think is funny is when people point out "...how much good Clinton has done for the economy." My read of the last eight years is that he pushed for national health care. After he failed in that he got so wrapped up in scandels (after all, he was known as Slick Willy long before he ran for President) that he didn't have time to screw up the economy.

I don't know much about Bush, but Gore scares me. The most dangerous person in the world is someone out to do something, "...for your own good."

Here's one of my favorite one-liners:

The Republicans complain loudly and often about how big government is wasteful and inefficient. Then they get elected and prove it.

posted 11-03- 06:28 PM               

About Clinton... Face it, gang... any guy having an affair with an intern half his age would have lied about it... anyone!

I just think it's funny to watch the Republicans choking on their own venom.

posted 11-03- 07:16 PM               

I predict this will make GW stronger. Did you hear how he handled it? You would NEVER hear that from Clinton or Gore. Bush really is an honest man - that does not mean you shoudl vote for him, but he is a good man. Do you know his real story?

He has many hard decisions and done well, he is a business man to be proud of, look at what he really did with that oil company. Look at how he handled that team. Look at how he dealt with the dealth penalty crisis with that sait of a murderer! He means what he says and says what he means.

Now if you are against what he says/means - you are excused to vote for Gore.

posted 11-03- 09:19 PM            

Of course if I was running for president, I wouldn't tell anyone I got busted for a DUI.

What's even more funny is that down here in Texas, it's all over the radio. Most of the talk shows are defending Bush..they say, well, we all do stupid things when we were young. But if I read the paper correctly, Bush was 30 when he got tagged for a DUI. 30..not 18, but 30. That's not exactly young.

But, in the end...it doesn't really matter. When the Prez is getting lubed up in the Oval Office by fat interns..I guess anything goes

I wish John McCain would've won the Convention. It would have saved my from having to vote for Nader.

posted 11-04- 12:51 AM               

It's kind of funny... When Clinton got caught, the Democrats constantly tried to say it was about sex. They were obviously trying to shift the focus away from Clinton's substantial legal problems.

Now that Dubya got zinged, you have conservatives trying to steer the discussion toward Dubya's past drinking problems... Bush's battle with alchohol may be interesting, but it's really not the point.

The point is that Dubya, a now proven liar, has on numerous occassions questioned Gore's credibility. If you're going to question somebody's credibility, you really have to be pretty pure yourself.

It's hypocrisy, plain and simple. The conservatives will constantly try to shift the focus of conversation to Dubya's past drinking problem, and away from the fact that he may have lied about having been arrested. Why? Because they know the people can and probably will forgive the drinking, but they know that the people won't forgive hypocrisy.

What is most perplexing, though, is this... what on Earth gave the Bush people the idea that they could keep this under the rug? Given the political climate... one which their side helped create, they should have seen this a mile a way and disclosed long ago. Makes you really wonder what the heck is going on behind the scenes.
I guess it's true what they say... people never think they're going to get caught, until they get caught.

posted 11-04- 05:48 AM               

Or let the press decide for you - Amrica is not doing this, the press is losing, Bush is wining on his own terms. This will not hurt his chances.

Did you see how he handled it? Would Gore have done that? Have you heard the way he disclosed his previous life? Honesty and integrrity all they way... to say Bush is lacking in integrity is just plane ignorant - please look at his life, you will be embarased about saying such things.

posted 11-04- 06:38 AM            

What!?!? ROFL. Look at his life?....he was tagged for a DUI at 30 years old. If you or I got busted for a drinking and driving, we would be labeled a criminal and a threat to our community. I guess it's OK if you are running for the Oval Office and say that you are better now. Since when did being a drunk driver become OK?

People DIE when drunks get behind the wheel. Sure, it happened 25 years ago, but it is a big blemish on his record. It won't matter at this point anyway. It's just gonna turn into a 'those scumbag Democrats leaked the story' affair anyway.

It won't change my vote anyway.

posted 11-04- 08:38 AM               

Later, he joined the oil business. In each case his companies lost millions, and were bailed out by his father's cronies. He was a dismal failure as an oilman, culminating in his being awarded a favored contract in the Gulf (despite a total lack of experience in offshore or out-of-Texas drilling) due to his father being president at the time. He sold all his interest in the company weeks before the Gulf war (perhaps a tip off from Dad?).

His baseball career was paid for by the taxpayers of Texas and by his father's cronies. He was basically given an extra 14% investment before he sold, again from his father's friends.

Now he presents himself as a self-made, regular guy who is qualified to run the country, and who has a stellar character. I think instead he has a stellar sense of entitlement.

Even his family friends say that everything he does is motivated by wanting to be like his father. Do you think he has the best interest of the Nation in mind? Do you think he has an independent vision of what his presidency will be, or has that been silver-spoon fed to him by his backers?

posted 11-04- 09:07 AM               

Yes, it is a little scary to me that he got popped for DUI in '76. Why? Well, because I used to dispatch police officers, and I know that in '85 when I started, it had only been a couple years since they had really started paying a LOT of attention to driving under the influence.

If you got a DUI back in '76, there was a good possibility that you were having trouble standing up, or you threw up on the cop.

And yes, throughout this whole campaign, and even BEFORE, I have been amazed by the continuing incompetence of the Republican party.

Why in the hell this wasn't prepared for in advance by his handlers, I'll never know. Sloppy, sloppy, sloppy.

Sure I guess I'm a Democrat, but just like studying the Second World War, it is hard not to appreciate talent. It's like, I don't think Adolph Galland was really my kind of guy, but I appreciated the way he handled his responsibilities for the Luftwaffe, and would certainly liked to have met him at a convention sometime. I imagine he would have been rather interesting.

Even though Bush is not my kind of guy...he's not very interesting. Things have been going bad for the Republicans since his dad kicked butt in Kuwait, but couldn't get re-elected fresh off of a victory.

That kind of torqued off Republicans from the beginning. Would have torqued me off too. "Good God, what does a guy have to do to get elected around here?"

From there it has been a continual downhill slide. We've had the constant witch-hunt against the Clinton administration for absolutely anything anyone could imagine. Real estate deals, savings accounts, sex, travel, fund-raising...about the only charge I haven't heard is littering or car theft.

Newt Gingrich got the fire going a while back, and then got burned by it. You can only be SO smug, and not have it backfire on you.

So more than anything, I've been watching the Republicans like I would study the Luftwaffe. And I'm not making a smart-alecky reference here guys. I mean I'm grading their combined efforts.

Yes Dan, I was amazed when they picked Dubya over McCain. Hell, even being a Democrat, I would have almost voted for him. Talk about a hero, Jesus Christ. Flying combat missions, endured the hell of the Forrestal Disaster, and a POW. Wow.

And believe me, I don't have a poster of Al Gore in my office. I think he is the most incredibly dull, lifeless automaton I have ever seen. Sort of like political tofu. I still despise he and his wife's crusade against rock music lyrics. Pinheads. Communists.

But I'm sorry, I think of the president of this or that country being introduced to Dubya, and I almost feel embrassed. Most of the world knew that Clinton couldn't keep it zipped up, but they knew that even though he was the consummate politician (i.e. LIAR), he was an intelligent, learned man, and had a brain.

Actually, the rest of the world probably liked Clinton better than his own country.

The point is that I think it's obviously now impossible to have been a human being, with all the foibles and flaws that go with it, and be able to run for a political office.

It's also getting almost impossible to find a candidate INTELLIGENT enough for the job, who doesn't scare the shit out of people like McCain. Hell, I think he just looked fierce to most common folks. Scared other politicians too. I sure wouldn't want to get cross-wise with him.

So, we've got a lifeless, programmed automaton, and a guy who reminds me of my old manager's at the Wyatt's Cafeteria I worked at when I was a kid. All attitude, and most of it haughty, with a smarmy, know-it-all and better-than-you streak thrown in for good measure, backed up by absolutely no substance whatsoever.

So I think this election will be a ton of fun. Gosh, it's good to hear Nader is taking one from the Republicans for a change Dan!

If Gore wins, it will be extremely entertaining to watch his actions be scrutinized hourly by Republicans, and to watch the Republicans walking around looking like they could puke at any minute. If Bush wins, it will be exciting to watch him swim out from the dock, and place bets on whether he'll drown or not.

Either way, it's all entertainment, and it's all the United States of America.

And I wouldn't have it any other way. I guess you could say it's a sick world, and I'm a happy guy.

So come one, let's have some fun guys. Go out, vote for your candidate, and then try something completely different for the next four years...

Try and watch the work of our president not through one particular media avenue or another. Try and watch their work objectively, even pretend you're looking at it through the eyes of the rest of the world. It sure would be nice to judge a guy on his effectiveness, and not on smart-ass comments poeple make, digging up dirt, witch-hunting, and 24 year old DUI's.

Hell, I had a feeling even as an 8 year old that Watergate was going to have a lasting impression on our country, and it's never stopped. It's just kept festering, and tainting all of this more and more.

Oh hell, I need to shut up.

posted 11-04- 11:25 AM               

Dubya... the Democrats keep hammering this idea that he's dumb. He's clearly not dumb. He's an empty suit, but he's not dumb. The whole reason Bush did so well in the debates is because expectations of him were so low thanks to Democrats constantly pushing this idea that he's dumb. Dubya's ideas are not his own, but he's more than qualified to speak for whom he represents. Which is what the Rebuplicans really want after all... someone they can control. Which is why McCain's campaign went nowhere. Limbaugh railed against McCain for weeks when McCain's campaign was gaining steam. Why? Because McCain thinks for himself. Rush doesn't like that. The Limbaugh Effect on McCain's campaign was devastating. Limbaugh has no sway with Democrats, but on Republicans- those who believe everything he says- he has enormous power.

By the way, have any of you listened to Rush recently? He has gotten kind of strange. He has this odd habit of addressing himself in the 3rd person when asking himself questions. He might say something like, "Rush, what do you think of yadda yadda..." It's really kind of strange.

Just an aside... SV, you need to hold Bush to the same standard that you hold Gore. Gore is a liar for stating that he went to the Texas fires with James L. Whitt. Why isn't Bush a liar when he answered "no" when asked if he had ever been arrested anytime after 1968? You're being unfair. But don't take my word for it. Do a little experiment in your mind... pretend that it was Gore who had the DUI in 76. You would be all over the guy and you know it. And if any of us would try to defend Gore with statements like, "Plus, back then there was not the moral stigmatism asigned to DUI that there is today.", you would accuse us of moral relativism.

[This message has been edited by JT (edited 11-04-2000).]

posted 11-04- 11:49 AM               

He didn't handle it until he had to. He tried to hide it as long as he could. His excuse? That he was trying to protect his daughters. That's fine... you can believe that, but if you do, then you also have to believe that Clinton was protecting his family when he lied about Monica. Make sense?

posted 11-04- 12:12 PM               

It's a video tape of a slightly hammered Dubya at a wedding. Now, I've heard of happy drunks, sad drunks, angry drunks, violent drunks, etc. Dubya has created a new category. Wierd Drunks. I know that alcohol affects everyone differently, but I've never seen it affect anyone in quite this manner.

posted 11-04- 12:49 PM            

How can a guy that skipped almost 18 months of National Guard duty be a good guy, while thousands of people were being drafted and sent to Vietnam?

You are being partisan again....which is not good.

posted 11-04- 04:23 PM               

I NEVER called Gore a lier, read my posts. I admitted from the start that calling him a lier was way out of wack. Thanks for lumping me in with the crowd

It is clear from what I have read that all you who know Bush know him from the media, too bad for you.

It is the strangest thing to me, that people - even on Bush's side- say that his ideas are not his own. NOTHING could be more off base than that. I give up now, because you have stopped trying to care about what "really" is the case. I am willing to listen to what Gore has to offer, and I respect him. Bush is a personal hero of mine, has been since very early when there was talk of running him.

Bash him all you want, you do not know even close to the real story. I am just glad knowing that even if Bush does not win, he will continue to do great things.

Do you really think I respect Bush because I am stupid, or desperate? I am ready to start, I challenge ye. I will defend what I see in Bush - who here will defend Gore? Gore is very defendable, I don't mean to imply that those of you on Gore's side have no case. But I feel confident in my views, there are many, many reasons I look up to GW.

I wasl lucky to meet him very early on, he comes across even better in person - such a personable guy! And his passion for his ideas are extremely evident. To say these are not "his" ideas is the saddest thing I have ever heard, and speaks to the terrible ingnorance of all who feel this way. What do you really know about his governership? If you look into it, you will be shocked! He is running on EXACTLY the same platoform that got him in office, beating a MUCH respected democrat in a very democratic state.

He IS what people think McCain was. McCain is a liberal rebublican who would have severly injured the conservative interestes in this country. I would have voted for Gore over McCain.

GW is a man for all seasons, not sold or bought by anyone/anything. Look what he did during that death penalty crisis with the murdere chick turned saint. Even the pope asked GW to stay her execution. POliticaly, he HAD to stay it, it was the correct political choice - everyonw knew it. Instead, he did not, saying that he reviewed the case much, and she admitted the crime - and the Texas law was clear, and it was his job to uphold the law - he did it. The day she fried he was attcked all over, a reporter asked, "how will you sleep tonight?" - GW answered, "I always sleep good after making a decision."

Look how he got the "out" for his oil comopany, he put the spirit of the small company and the employees above his financial gain.

Look at the baseball team, he DID get taxes to pay for it! It was a clever plan that saved the team... I am not saying I am for taxes paying for X, but this is not the matter; he is a man of clever and cunning, and a positive attitude. He is a trustworthy fellow, I would count on him... and I do.