posted 10-26- 02:25 PM               

We just went all around town here and EVERYONE is sold out. Best buy sold over 50 in just 20 minutes and people waited since 8 PM outside the store LAST NIGHT, to be there this morning at 10AM to snatch one up. The place was a madhouse. So then we went to Software ETC in the mall here and there was a pile of them. "Sir, you can't have one, those are for people who've had one on hold since last year." I was then told if I wanted one I'd have to wait months. So, oh well so much for spending some Birthday money on a new PSX 2. We did see many demos of it at Best Buy though and it is freaking beautiful for a console system.

If any of you got one (or are about to) please tell us all where you got it (and if you needed to be on a waiting list) and of course, how good/fun the games are.

I did come home with a new game, CFS II and am loading it up now.

posted 10-26- 07:18 PM               

$99 HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHH

AHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHHAHAHHHAHAHAHAHAHH

AHAHAHHAA

WA

LOL

Yep thats going to happen.

Yeah pete a buddy of mine just picked up his paid in full preorder, he preordered a couple months back.

He got smugglers run cause he's into driving games and liked the go anywhere on the map aspect.

I'm going over later tonight after I chip a PSX one.

I have a feeling I'm going to be spending alot of time over at this guys house, we already hang out all the freaking time anyways though so its nothing new, although usually he is over at my house cause I have a better computer.

I'll probly pick up a PS2 sometime around febuary if it looks like its going to do well.

Plus it should be a little easier to find by then.

Right now the software is a little dry anyways.

What game/games were you thinking of getting if you would have got your hands on one pete?

posted 10-26- 07:44 PM               

With all of that, I'd better beable to hook it up to a scud missle launcher guidance system.

posted 10-26- 08:44 PM               

I'm not saying it won't hit 99, just that its not going to till near the end of its product cycle, which is years away.

PSX 1 came out in 1995 and is just dieing out now.

The PS2 should be around for at least 3 years. Probly not 5 like the PSX cause of increase competition.

I've seen ridge racer 5 and tekken tag in person on a jap import, Unfortunatly it was on a crappy TV, It looked great, but I'm reserving formal opinion until I play it later tonight.

Its not the huge jump that most people were expecting though, specialy since they are all first gen games that are basically rehashes of old games with more polys.

2nd and 3rd gen should be much better.

posted 10-27- 01:20 AM               

LOL Insane.

Yeah so I tried it out for an hour playing smugglers run.

I didn't even really play, i just drove around in free play mode which just lets you roam around the map with out any cops or bad guys.

Pretty damn cool.

Great physics and graphics. REALLY good smoke off the smoke becons that let you know where your next goal is ( i was watching my freind do some missions too )

Then engine rocks in the chassis from the torque. Again great physics.

Its only an arcade game though not really a sim.

The system overall was pretty good. HUGE bay in the back for the add on hard drive and a small gazzilion pin addapter slot for the high speed online adapter.

Great graphics, couldn't turn it up loud but I liked the sounds I could hear.

Great control, analog buttons were pretty cool, Great draw distance, no more stuff poping up into view and no more fog.

I was doing some hill climbing and when you get to the top of the large ones its like real life you see as far as you should, not to the fog back present in alot of games.

No slowdowns at all at any point nice fast frame rate, NOt that theres a counter, but ya know what I mean it just felt smooth.
Even with tons of nice looking trees and other cars and stuff.

We didn't have a DVD on hand but we plan to rent some tommorow night along with some other games so we can really check it out then.

ALso its going to be at my place so we can turn it up and play with it on a slightly better TV.

So far I like what i see, really it just needs the software to keep coming out.

The cd/dvd drive is a little loud during loading but not any worse then anything our computers make, And there is a pretty decent size fan in the back that you can hear too but I only noticed it when i put my head beside it to listen for it.

The actual machine is a little heavier then #1 but thats a good thing in my book it feels more sturdy.

posted 10-27- 01:34 AM               

Heres a couple pics, Remember these arn't screen captures but photos taken from a tv screen so they are washed out.

belive me it looks much better on the actual screen

I'm just using them to show my points.

here is the far distance view

smoke and trees

Some rolling terrain

They look crappy but What can you do, I don't have a vid capture card handy.

posted 10-29- 02:46 AM               

We rented wild wild racing and it sucked large, crap.

Summoner we couldn't get into but we arn't big RPG fans so... The graphics suck though, we need eye candy, I've heard its a great game but give me somthing to suck me in first.

We watched saving private ryan as our first DVD since we seen in on the same tv and stereo except on VHS, it looked great. But there was some wacky minute skipping, we arn't sure if it was the DVD or the system, Its hard to tell it could have been either and even if it was the system some of it could have been from the crazy bass that movie puts out, We are going to check out any given sunday tommorow and if that does it too we know something bad is up.

I highly recommend Smugglers run as a game to at least rent, If not buy. I havn't played multiplayer yet but Gremlin here says it rocks, it rocks so much that even his sister got into playing it.

All in all we are loving it, it just needs more A quality titles, It definatly has the power if the company knows how to use it.

posted 10-29- 02:50 AM               

Oh yeah and i was just reading some info on Gran turismo 3, They are thinking of going with some multiplayer, its coming out before the internet connection so it will be using the I-Link (firewire) connection. They had it running on 6 machines, they said it was a blast.

I can't wait to do that

So it might not have online multi but it does have lan so thats going to rock.

posted 10-29- 04:36 AM               

AND theres a chamber for the hard drive with another interface.

Either your going to buy the hard drive and internet connection in one unit and just slide it in, OR your going to connect your internet add on dealy to the usb or firewire.

I'm thinking the hard drive route will be the way cause It would be a faster connection i'm pretty sure.

The beauty of the system (and some may say the downfall) is that its broadband ONLY, You can't use a 56k modemm, if you could they probly would have just built that right into it. So you will be connecting it to your cable modem or DSL modem, I'm not sure if it will support both or one, I'm hoping both.

Of couse its bad for all the people who just can't get higher then a 56k, But it does neatly skirt the issue of having to make games and net code that can work on a 56k. Which is in my books a good thing.

course high speed is in my town and cable should be here anytime so of course i would say that.

posted 10-29- 04:42 AM               

About the release, Here in a town of 50,000 the local microplay got 50 and that was just under enough to cover all the preorders, they figure they can get the last couple peoples orders filled in the next couple weeks.

The local EB only got round 10 or 15 and they didn't cover all the preorders they got.

my bud was #4 and had paid his off in full + a mem card.

not sure about any other stores, But I know zellers, walmart and canadian tire (a HUGE automotive, housewares, and hardware store chain up here in the great white north for you americans) were also selling it, I'm expecting they sold out right away cause every store employee i talk to in a store that sells games is sick of people coming in and asking and phoning about getting one.

posted 10-29- 10:53 AM               

i've been playing PS2 for a few days now, even though i've been playing with an import PS2 for the last 3 months.

Madden 2001 is the most outstanding and might i add realistic football i've ever played on a system. i can't put into words how great this game is.. It's the only game i've got but i'm getting my roommate to send the rest of the games from work, he says they have all 27 of the release games but Dead or Alive 2: Hardcore. But rumour has it i can rent it.

The game spanky posted is smugglers run. I'm told it's the best off-road racer ever made by some guys at my old job.

If you can find one, and you play games off the computer, i think it's the best 300 bucks you can ever spend.

posted 10-29- 01:40 PM               

Yep it is kicking ass, As long as they get some good games coming out consistantly its really going to be good. I won't lie though the software lineup is still lacking in some areas.

I always read IGN reviews for a quick take before renting and I usually only bother with games that get over an 8 out of 10 cause me and mad dog are really picky about the quality of games.

check out this list all these games got over an 8:

DOA2: Hardcore Fighting 8.7
ESPN Winter X Games Snowboarding Sports 8.0
Gun Griffon Blaze Action 8.4
Midnight Club: Street Racing Racing 8.6
Summoner RPG 8.3
TimeSplitters Action 8.6
Armored Core 2 Action 8.0
Kessen Simulation 8.1
Madden NFL 2001 Sports 9.0
Ridge Racer V Racing 8.0
SSX Sports 9.3
Tekken Tag Tournament Fighting 8.7
Unreal Tournament Action 8.4

and the one we are playing until 5 in the morning friday and 8 am last night

Smuggler's Run Racing 7.9

So out of 27 games thats 13 quality titles, not bad if you ask me, I think the problem is they don't cover all the bases. Mech people are covered, rpg people are covered. You could even maybe say racing people are too. But I think they needed a racing simulation, and a couple adventure games, like a platformer or somthing, a spyro or crash bandicoot. Or a whole new guy.

DanW, here is IGN DVDs take on the performance of the DVD player.

http://dvd.ign.com/hardware/21.html

Its reviewing the playback on the japan DVD player, the only difference is the US version doesn't need the DVD drivers loaded on the mem card. Its stored in a flash ram on the board.

We watched saving private ryan last night and it was great but we did have some problems, It was skipping in a wacky way but we still arn't sure if that was someting on the DVD or the sony having a hard time or the bass effecting playback.

You really want to isolate a DVD player and other sources for that matter (tape, cd, vhs, dvd) from vibration for best performance and we didn't last night.

Really you shouldn't exspect performance any better then a $300 DVD player, cause thats all it is.

For those wondering, sony DOES take a loss on every unit sold that how they can get somthing with all these power and features to the market.

And, there is no online play Dan, Remember? I'm guessing you weren't following too closely but there is a hard drive and broadband adapter coming out next year.

Read my posts above for more info.

posted 10-29- 01:46 PM               

Whirl, Its actually only 4 megs of texture ram. The ps1 had i think .5 of a meg or 1 and it did great with it. You just need the programers to work with it. Also the bandwidth of the main ram is INSANE so they can pull stuff off that if they want to.

There is definatly problems and stuff that could have been done better, but really you just need the right programers to pull off the good games, thats true with any system though.

Smugglers run at least does't have ANY problems with jaggies. It looks freaking great.

The only problem I can find with SR is that I guess they ran out of time cause I'll be driving along and say Man i wish they would have done this, or that or the other thing.

But they must have been squeezed for time. The good thing is they just left out some of the stuff we think of instead of adding some neat stuff and letting bugs out in the release, there is NO bugs. NONE.

Its really just a game that could have been done on the play station with better graphics and physics. It would have been lower res, lower FPS less detailed terrain and way less trees and stuff and a huge fog bank.

posted 10-29- 01:47 PM               

OH yeah, and whirl you can do AA on the ps2, the developer just has to get off his ass and do it.

posted 10-29- 01:59 PM               

For those looking for an indepth technical view into the processing system check this out.

http://arstechnica.com/reviews/1q00/playstation2/ee-1.html

Its insanely in depth. All in all right now all the games are pretty much only using the main CPU which in itself isnt' anything special really this guy says its just the flow controller. The really horse power is the vector processing units. So if the games are looking a little better and a little worse in some cases then the Dreamcast games just wait until the developers starting using the other 10 cylinders out of this 12 cylinder beast.

posted 10-29- 02:22 PM               

For those looking for an indepth technical view into the processing system check this out.

http://arstechnica.com/reviews/1q00/playstation2/ee-1.html

Its insanely in depth. All in all right now all the games are pretty much only using the main CPU which in itself isnt' anything special really this guy says its just the flow controller. The really horse power is the vector processing units. So if the games are looking a little better and a little worse in some cases then the Dreamcast games just wait until the developers starting using the other 10 cylinders out of this 12 cylinder beast.

posted 10-29- 04:19 PM               

Yea dan I hear ya i'm wondering about that too.

Working just fine is a reletive term at best, There is a reason why there is $200 and $5000 and quality of playback is one of them.

After I watch bitch black tonight I'll post on how it played.

posted 10-29- 06:29 PM               

LOL

Pitch Black, LOL yea its a movie, SiFi horror if you havn't seen it.

Yes you still use memcards to save games, why? That rocks. Take your save games over to your buddies and you can upload and download them to the net for other people.

What good would it be to save them on your PS2 and then take your favorite game over to a freinds?

Like in GT and GT2 you can trade cars and garages and stuff.

Its 8 megs, Consivably if you and a freind both had dex drives for uploading and downloading save games you might also be able to use it as a way of trasporting up to 8 megs of PC data instead of using disks or zip drives.

Epson is making printer drivers and postcard software for the PS2.

posted 10-29- 07:23 PM               

The programmers will never do it. You pay $5 mill a pop for a game just to get the privelage to developing it. You'll program sloppy to meet the deadline. Chances will be that you have less time than a PC developer (who can patch) to get the game out the door as Sony reviews every game prior to release, if it sucks, Sony kicks it back. So glitzy graphics and cloning are highly encouraged to reduce the spin up time.

posted 10-30- 08:13 AM               

The SPR DVD uses layer changes. Unfortunately the lay changes in the middle of the P.O.W. scene, so its really noticable. Some DVD players can handle layer changes perfectly, some systems like my Toshiba 2109 (and apparently the PS2) have a slight pause when the layer is switched.

posted 11-01- 12:20 AM               

K whirl I don't know where you get your info but your either stupid or missinformed about alot of the facts.

$5 mil to get the privelage to develop, Show me your source on this?

I have read in an article that sony makes about $10 off each disk as payment for licensing and pressing the disk. Funny thing is the publishers still make tons of money off the games even after this cost of bussiness in the console industry.

Why will you have less time to develop a game then a PC game? And sony reviewing a game before release is a great thing if you ask me, that just means I there is less crappy games. Whats the downside here?

Pc developers can patch yes, but why do I care? I don't want games that can be patched cause they shouldn't be patched. Consoles are doing fine right now without them cause the programmers actually test their games before releasing them and the games that do come out buggy get fixed and rereleased ala GT2.

The PC playing PS2 games on a emu is the biggest joke ever, Yep you will be waiting a while for a system powerfull enough to pull that off.

What P350 are you talking about? Cause i sure ain't no intel chip, The PS2 does 6.2 Gflops of floating point, and we all know how important Floating point is from the bad performance of the K6s and such, Please find me a PC chip that does 6.2 gflops, OH wait YOU CAN'T cause it hasn't been made yet.

About PS2 in 2005, it doesn't matter, the PS3 comes out in 2005, they come out with a new console every 5 years.

Graphics will never get better eh? Says who YOU?

Do you even know what you are talking about? Have you ever even owned a console in your life?

Look at ridge racer 1 for PSX, decent game for its day but utter crap right now, Now look at ridge racer 4 for PSX, It like night and day, Every graphical aspect of the game is better. WHY? Cause the programmers learned all the little tricks of getting every last cycle out of the machine, This would happen in the PC world to but the programers just sit around and hope people buy new machines when their game comes out instead of spending more time on optomizing for the average machine people actually own.

Heck look at mario one on the NES, then look at mario 3. Again night and day, it looks 10 times better, and again the system didn't change one bit, why? well i think you would know that by now.

The really funny thing is all you seem to be able to attack is the limits of the system cause it might not be expandable, and its so called graphics limits.

Right there is 72 million Playstations in the world, Lots of people still playing them and likeing them people that don't and do own PCs, My PC plays games with better graphics them my sony for sure, funnything is I keep going back to the sony, for some types of games, WHY? Cause they always run, no patching, the controller is perfect, and the gameplay is great.

As long as the gameplay is good and there is a good controller to work with its all good, You don't NEED amazing graphics to make a good game, it does help though and the PS2 can do them.

Yes pc always get better, no one is arguing about that, but you have to pay for hat while consoles on the whole get better over the life of the system just from better code.

Some people, jeez

Falck, thats a thought, We watched Pitch black and there was no problems at all with that one. Wacky.

I still don't really want to say if the DVD play back is great or not so great till i have seen at least a couple more movies on it. I do know I havn't seen any decompression problems so far though so thats good.

-------------------------------

K so now I have played more games too

SSX, is pretty damn good in the graphics and gameplay departments.

Midnight racers just wasn't grabbing us, its really alot like midtown madness at night but its not as fun, I can't put my finger on why though its weird.

Kessen is pretty damn good, I didn't play but watched a freind play it for a couple hours, Its his next game he is getting.

We are trying madden and NHL 2001 tommorow night not that we are big sports fans but we are trying to get an overview of the lauch titles and see just whats up with the system and its present games.

Besides the place we rent from lets you trade in the games for a buck as many times as you want until your return date.

So we get 3 games or movies for $14 for 3 days, and then everyday we trade them in for a 3 more movies or games for one buck, So in the end we get to play 9 games or movies for $17 over 4 days. Decent deal if you ask me and it makes it cheaper to try out all the games without getting pissed if one sucks.

He rented DOAhardcore tongiht and says its good although we arn't huge fighting game fans, And motoGP which he is really excited about and silent scope, I'll be checking them out tonigh or tommorow.

So has anyone else on this forum got one or renting one or ?

posted 11-01- 01:25 AM               

Exactly Argon. Don't look at the PS2 as a DVD player with a game system built in.

Look at it like a Game system that has a DVD drive built in for supporting DVD games, THen they figured they would make it a more attractive system by making that DVD drive able to play movies.

And it worked, My dad would never even think about paying $450 Canadian for a game system for my younger brother. But Now he is considering spliting on the system with my brother so the family will also have a DVD player.

As a matter of fact when Sony first announced that the PS2 would have a DVD drive people in the media and game industry wern't thinking it would be able to play movies, since sony makes stand alone players and every PS2/DVD player that is in a house is one less chance to sell a stand alone DVD player (at least to the people that don't understand what makes a stand alone DVD player better, nor why there is $200 dvd players and $5000 machines), People thought either it just wouldn't play them or you would have to buy some sort of addon, And sony wasn't saying it would play movies, I'm guessing that at that stage it was still trying to see what would be the better way.

Really in my eyes the DVD player is a bonus. It will work for now, I don't have the money to buy both right but I definatly will buy a good one later on in the future.

And I agree its like playing DVDs in your computer, I don't own one and I won't own one till they start putting out games that use them, I will never use one for a DVD movie player, Puting a DVD player in a enviorment like the inside of a computer (IE heat, vibration, interference) and then running the cables from where ever your PC is to your TV (and no I'm not going to watch a damn movie on my PC, ANd yes I know Monitors have a better picture, Sorry I like to watch movies with freinds and family) which can pick up more interference, Well thats like stacking the deck in favor of crappy playback. I'm not saying a computer mounted DVD player can't do good playback, but it will never compete with a stand alone player that is made for one job, Just like the PS2 dvd player won't.

But since the PS2 also plays kick ass games(which is somehting you can't say for the PC DVD players[as in name me a game that I actually want to play that only comes on PC-DVD ROM?]) I won't mind using it for movies until I can get some money together for a stand alone DVD player, THe other good thing about the PS2 DVD player is that it helps spread DVD players throught the average persons home, And that will help DVDs reach mainstream even more.

posted 11-01- 09:02 AM               

Nice to see you beleive the 6.2 Gflops *theoretical speed*. It only does 6.2 if all you are doing is floating point. You throw in some int math (PS2 is slower than a p90 at int), some game logic, and moving that graphics data down the pipe and you are looking at an actual 1.1Gflop FPU.

I looked at old PS, I looked at new PS. I keep thinking that TV's are fine for movies. The Jaggie Monster does a number on the graphics, even with the TV's smoothing chip (can't remember the name, video card people were looking at intergrating it until someone hit 30fps with 1024x768). The graphics don't look any better from start to finish on any console game I have seen. Never count the quality of cut scenes as the quality of the in game graphics.

Why would I waste money on something that is so limited? The more I look at console graphics the more I can't beleive how much money people waste on them. If you do the math, any of the *latest* PC games can be had for around $35 a pop. Any of the latest console games can be had for $50 a pop. After 10 games you are talking $150 more to own a console, after 50 games you are talking $750 more to own a console. At what point does owning a console become cheaper than owning a PC?

If you don't play the latest and greatest PC or console games, try these numbers. Two year old PS games cost $20. Two year old PC games cost $10 (both prices are for superseeded versions). If you buy 20 bargin bin console titles, you've spend $200 more than what you would spend for 20 bargin bin PC titles. I can see the logic that console games are cheaper clearly now...

Yeah! For $299 I can get a console and a DVD player. boo! I can get a $199 DVD player that is better, and after about my 50th console game, buy a PC with monitor that has a heck of a lot better graphics and can play a lot more games. I'd actually save money with a PC over a console.

The only thing that probably would drive me to own a console would be the console played AOEI&II and SDOE. Since there isn't that does, I'll stick with my PC.

posted 11-01- 03:03 PM               

People. These are two different, albeit overlapping, markets. Neither will ever wipe out the other.

So doing cost comparisons to develop or to own, or doing power comparisons is largely apples and oranges. The numbers are meaningless. They don't affect anyone's buying decision.

The decision always comes down to, "Are the games I want to play fun on this system?"

There will be plenty of "Yes" answers on both systems. Forever.

posted 11-01- 04:10 PM               

WHy is there no time to develop? I still don't understand.

THeys started making GT3 when they started making GT2.

Now that GT3 is almost done they are starting GT4.

SO GT3 will have had about 3 years of development.

SOunds long enought to me.

I hear what you are saying about all the theory and stuff, and its true with the PC too, the pc can be fast if the developers use it and sometimes they mess up and don't Still 1.1 ain't that bad.

TV smoothing chip? I keep telling ya That I see no problem with jaggies, Sure it doesn't look as good as a monitor but you arn't 2 feet away from your TV either.

And I"m not talking about cutscenes I'm talking IN GAME REAL GAME PLAY GRAPHICS.

YOU have obviosly never played any first gen and last gen games on a console.

About the games costing more, Before you factor that in remember to factor in the cost of all the time you waste installing it, getting it to run right, updating your vid card drivers, patching and such. Remember any time spent on the internet learning how to fix the game, getting patches and new drivers costs our friends in europe money, by the minute. Maybe the pc game manufacturers should give rebates. What good is a free patch if you have to spend money just to get it?

You buy the console game put it in and it works and it works every time you boot it up, no CDT no bluescreen, no patching.

Besides that I don't buy alot of games but instead just rent them.

Oh yeah, AOE 2 is coming to PS2.

There is also rumors of B-17-2, Maybe with some multiplayer

DOn't worry man, you can plug in your PC USB devices for control so you can still use your stick and keyboards.

Mighty, Yep same old crap, thing is I never told Whirl to sell his PC and get a ps2, I just figure that for the cost if a high end Vidcard why not get one if your into the types of games that consoles get. Really after spending thousands of dollars on your PC whats the problem with spending $300 on a game machines with a dvd player? Then you just rent games every couple weekends so you can play some games that PC suck at.

Yes it always comes down to the games.

The reason why I have choosen to wait mighty, is cause I want to make sure the games are there. I still totally belive in the system itself. But For now I want to get my own computer up to a decent spec and then I have to buy a new TV, mine is an old turn the handle for the channels POS, and that just won't do the PS2 justice.

The more I play it though the more I want to get one WAY before feb, For the cost of my PC upgrade I could buy a new 31" mid end TV and the PS2.

But this computer is just being borrowed and I like having one so I want to give this one back, sooner the better.