posted 08-23- 11:09 PM               

In order to ease on line play, the crew has been working on a new approach to the plane pack system. This post will describe the approach we will be taking. While we realize everyone has their favorite plane they'd like to see in a "basic on-line standard plane pack "(whew,that's a mouth full. We'll just call it the Base Pack, or BP, from here on in ), we can't include every plane or the download size will become prohibitive for newcomers.

Before going into the thought processes involved in setting up the Base Pack , you need to take one thing into consideration. The original 10 planes HAVE to be included in the pack, so some choices were forced on us.

The Base Pack has been designed to allow a great diversity of mission possibilities, flyable aircraft, and ground units. Once each nations allocation of aircraft is filled ,no more will be added to that Nation, i.e. the BP has a size limit and will not grow like a bloated pig (we'd like to thank Spin and the other Plane Pack assemblers for keeping the size downon the previous packs through judicious selection of aircraft). With this approach, Newbies (or anyone else for that matter) that only use the BP know they have a good set of the best aircraft and can play online easily with anyone else. The mission naming will make it very easy to find and select a mission written for base pack only aircraft.

Before you start worrying about missing your favorite kite, we have also come up with a way to standardize adding different aircraft to the game. Everyone has the option of modifying their SDOE installation to suit their needs by downloading the additional packs they want without having 1 big download. And- they can be added in a way that will make it easy for both the users and the developers.

After we explain the system being adopted, we'll list those parts that will make up the "On-line Standard".

The Base Pack includes the major axis and allied countries at the start of the war and those that fought through the course of the war. These are:
Allies: Great Britain, the USA, the USSR, France, and Poland.
Axis: Germany, Japan, Italy

This choice allows scenario coverage of major events and battles in WWII from 1939 through 1945.

With that in mind, let's go over the basic structure of the Base pack. Each nation in the base pack will be allotted the following numbers and types of aircraft:

Fighters-3 (The USA is allotted 5 fighters)
Fighter Bombers / Tactical Bombers- 2
Bombers (Typically medium bombers)-2
Strategic Bombers-2 (USA and Great Britain only)

As Great Britain and the US were the only 2 nations involved in ongoing LARGE SCALE strategic bombing through the entire war, they were given an additional bomber category for the strategic bombers. This allows scenario's to be written that follow the strategy employed by these 2 nations of using heavy bombers for strategic strikes , and medium bombers to be used in tactical strikes (example: railroad stations, V1 sites). This will also allow Great Britain's transition from a 2 engine medium bomber early in the war to heavy 4 engine bombers to be reenacted. (As Germany never developed an effective heavy bomber, they were not assigned an additional bomber category. Some players may wonder about the Fw 200 Condor. The answer to this is simple, the Condor was NOT a heavy bomber and was used primarily in Maritime operations).

The US was assigned 2 additional fighters because it actually had 2 separate land based air forces; the Army and Marines. Marine pilots flew completely different aircraft from the Army Air Corps, and the US was the only nation to have such a divergence in aircraft that didn't involve naval air forces.

Some nations don' have enough (or any) aircraft to fill all of the openings in the base pack. These slots will not be filled with planes from other nations. Empty slots will be left open for future aircraft development. This makes updating the pack easier and will not require rewriting on-line missions because one aircraft was pulled out to make room for a new plane.

So what about the other planes and countries? The remainder of the aircraft not included into the Base Pack will be divided into their respective nations and setup as individual downloads, not as part of the Online Standard, but as additional Add-on modules. In addition, there will be a few add-ons that focus on special categories. Aircraft in these packs will be of the high standard usually expected of a plane pack nomination, no Beta or unfinished projects will be included. Each of these packs will be individually updated as (and when) required, you will not need to download every additional pack at once from now on, only the updated one.

All of this may seem rather confusing at first, but is necessary for how the installer being developed will be set up. The goal is to create an installer, that runs on your computer, which automates this process for you. You can run it at anytime, select the add-ons you want, and it will download and install them for you. If a file has been updated, you run the installer, select the updated file, and it downloads and installs it for you. Be patient, this will take a while to set up. However, this requires the names of the different files be established ahead of time and is why we have worked on a complete system rather than just one pack. This way the installer only has to be written once, and only small updates will need to be made. If this feature can be implemented the way we want, it will allow updating pieces of this sytem without requiring huge downloads.

Enough background explanation, let's get into HOW this will be divided. Below is a list of the aircraft that will be included and the add-ons that will be implemented.

Options for empty spots are in parenthesis. Keep in mind, these are not the only planes that will be accepted, but are suggestions so developers can see where to focus their efforts.

As you look at this following list, you'll notice a change in terminology. Packs will be part of the on-line standard, Modules will be add-ons you can download.

Base Pack

England-3
Fighters
Spit1a
Spit MkV
Spit MkIX

Tactical bomber / Fighter Bomber-2
Typhoon
Mosquito

Medium Bomber-2
(Blenheim, Hampden, Wellington, or Manchester)

Strategic bomber-2
Lancaster
(Stirling, Halifax)

Germany
Fighters-3
109E
190A
Me262

FB or tactical bomber-2
Stuka Ju-87G
(Me-110, Hs 129, early model Stuka)

Medium bomber-2
Ju88
(He-111 when available)

France-3
Fighters
DE.520
French Hurricane
(M.S. 406, MB.152, CR.714, Potez 631)

Tactical / Fighter Bombers-2
(LN.411, Potez 63, Bloch 174/175/176, Br.691)

Medium Bombers-2
(Amiot 351/354, LeO.451, MB.131, Farman F.222)

Japan
Fighters-3
A6M2
A6M5
(Ki-27, Tony, George, Jack, or Oscar)

Tactical Bombers / Fighter Bombers-2
Val
(Kate, Jill or Judy)

Medium bombers-2
(Betty, Sally, Dinah, Peggy, Helen, or Liz)

Russia
Fighters-3
Il 16
Yak
Mig 3

Fighter Bombers / Tactical Bombers-2
(Il-2, P-39, Su-2, Ar-2, Yak-4)

Bombers-2
Pe2
(Il-4, Pe-8, Tu-SB)

USA

Fighters- 5
P-51D
(One opening. If possible, we prefer to keep this open for a different fighter type rather than a variant of one already listed here)
P-40F
F4U-1D- marine version (note, corsair was not a carrier plane until the F4U-4)
F4F4 Wildcat- Marine skin

Fighter Bomber / Tactical bomber
P-38J
P-47D

Medium Bomber-2
(B-26, A-20, B-25, or A-26)

Strategic Bomber-2
B-17
(B-24 or B-29)

Poland
Fighters-3
Pzl P-11
(Pzl P-7a, Pzl P-24)
Tactical / Fighter Bombers-2
(Pzl P.23 or P.43)

Medium Bombers-2
(Pzl P.37 "Elk")

Italy
Fighters-3
(Mc200, Mc202, Mc205, Re2001, Re2001, Re2005, or G.50)

Tactical / Fighter Bombers-2
(Ba.88 Lince, Ca.311)

Medium Bombers-2
(Sm.79, Sm.82, Cant Z.1007, SIAI S.84, P.108)

Add-on Modules

Nation Modules
Germany, USA, Britain, Russia, Italy, Japan, France, Neutrals(Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Turkey, etc.), Minor Axis (Finland, Rumania, Hungary, etc.), Minor Allies (Canada, Australia, New Zealand , Norway, Greece, Brazil, etc.)

(Even though some of the nations listed don't have enough (or any) planes for the Base Pack or their own module, names are being established to support future development.)

Naval OPS module- This pack will contain carrier based planes, seaplanes, and their supporting objects (Carriers, tenders, bases, special mission files, etc.)

SWOTL module- Secret weapons of the Luftwaffe

Night Raid Pack- Includes all nightfighters, night skins for bombers included in the base pack, searchlights, and additional equipment specific to night time scenarios
Prewar era (Period between WWI and WWII)

Racing module (go for it Hawk )

Korean Era module

Modern Aircraft module

Additional non- airplane Packs and modules

Ground Pack- driveable vehicles
Static Object Pack- ships not needed for Naval OPS pack, nondriveable vehicles, buildings, crates, trains, train stations, AA Guns etc.)

On-line Missions- Online missions will not be packed into parfiles. This allows easy editing, addition, and if necessary, deletion. In addition, all missions written for the on-line standard will start with BP so everyone will know which missions in their multiplayer folder will work. We are working on a naming convention for on-line missions that will make it easy to know if a mission uses the BP or requires add on modules. We are also asking that on-line missions written for World War One start with WWI. This will make life easier for everyone.

WOW, that's quite a list. But rest easy, here is what the new On-Line Standard will consist of:

The "Patch" (1.5.2.9 currently)
Base Pack
Nations
Ground Pack
Static Pack
On-line Missions

An installer for the 1.5.2.9 patch is currently undergoing testing. As mentioned earlier, we are also looking into the feasibility of writing an installer that will download and install these pieces for you. . This will have to undergo some development and testing, but a base pack installer will be written first.

Although the Base Pack format is pretty well set, we will be asking for input as we work out details on some of these other features. You can send any ideas to us using the e-mail link icon at the top of this post. All crew members have access to this account and we will be checking it regularly.

As for a time frame, we are shooting for having the base pack together the week after September 9th.

Sincerely,
The Crew

posted 08-24- 01:57 AM               

Two-three points, though, that I would like to make. I wont disagree with the idea of of the new installer, although I am not sure I like it .

About England's airplanes ; you left out the Hurricane, one of Englands most historical airplanes...

Second,the PZL24 never flew under the Polish Airforce insignia. It was a plane used completly by other countries (correct me if I am wrong Zur).

Third, Poland & France were not major allies countries. They were soon captured by the axis forces and the remnants of their forces fought aside with the US & GB the same way the greek forces in Egypt did or like any other countries that were captured by the axis.

Fourth & last, what about the WWI pack ?

Anyway, just a couple of points I would like to make. Really looking forward for the online standard pack !

posted 08-24- 04:16 AM               

Also, to keep things clear, are you going to assign PAr file numbers to the packs prior to release?

That way, people who have 'other' stuff they want to keep in parfiles, they will know which numbers to avoid. It will also make sure anyone who wants to release, say, a terrain in a parfile knows which ones are already earmarked for a standard.

p.s. Just to add my thoughts on the plane choice...I think overall, it is a pretty good spread. On the Brit planes, I will miss the Hurricane and wonder if it wouldn't make more sense to call the Mossie a medium bomber, and slap the Hurricane in as a tactical bomber/fighter bomber. If you build the curernt plane with Mk11c / d options, then it is a valid description. The Hurricane also fits well in desert scenarios and is essential for anything 1940 ish!

Add in the Blenheim or the Wellington as the other medium ( Wellington most significant as a bomber ) and look at the others as part of the 'night raiding' pack. ( and don't forget the Whitley! )

For the Yanks, the missing fighter just has to be a Hellcat! You can't NOT have a hellcat!

For the Italians, I think the Mc200 and 202 are essential, but not the 205 ( beautiful though it is!) since we should stick to planes that saw large scale use. 205's were few and far between.

The Ba88 is an interesting choice...but I think we should include one of the biplane fighter/bombers.

Mediums, got to have the SM79, and the Cant Z1007!

Oh yeah...and the Japs have got to have a Kate, and a Betty!!!!

I can see a lot of thought has gone into this, and as a result, though I guarantee you won't please everyone what you have outlined is

a) Workable

b) Acceptable as it stands

c) A million times better than the choas we have at present!

posted 08-24- 05:37 AM               

Who is "The Crew"?

Was a vote taken at some time putting "The Crew" in charge of this (possibly prior to my involment with SDOE)?

What did "The Crew" use as a criteria for selecting which aircraft were selected?

Why would "The Crew" want to take away planes from players (the one thing SDOE has to offer) against games like EAW, CFS2, and of course IL-2?

So far I don't like the idea, but then I don't count, I'm not part of "The Crew".

KIlroy

posted 08-24- 06:04 AM               

Got to say 'Crew' this is has obviously been a long, thought-out process and will go a way to standardising play - although Eyes has raised some points about Poland/France etc, wouldn't their envolvement be strictly limited to the early stages of the war?

I like the idea of modules, though and I guess that WWI could be added on in a similar way.

Kilroy - I don't think these proposals involve taking aircraft away from the individual gamer (no-one has the power to do this except the actual modellers and site owners), more establish a standard for online play in order to reduce mismatches (if I understand correctly) and crashes. You can still have as many additional planes as you like, but flying them online may well be limited to individuals who wish to use those particular modules, for instance Secret Luftwaffe weapons was mentioned , I think.

On the whole I think the future of online SDOE looks bright and glowing in a nice warm, orangey kind of way

posted 08-24- 07:40 AM               

I cant say that I totally agree with you ! I dont want to spoil this topic with my arguements, thats why I wont continue making them.
I respect these guys effort and although I disagree with them, I will accept whatver they come up with.
If someone wants to discuss thsi issue any further with me, feel free to let me know and we can start a new topic or even exchange emails !

posted 08-24- 08:02 AM               

This was discussed and settled by including the French Hurricane. French pilots flew the Hurricane in the BoB, Africa and other theaters, so the Hurricane is NOT left out. The reason this was decided, was too allow for the 3 variants of Spits, which were developed in direct response to Germany's fighter development. Hurricanes can still be included in any scenario. This issue was bantered for over a week, and as you can see every issue expressed her was already raised and discussed. If you want we can outline German fighter development and Spitfire development to explain why there are 3 versions of the Spit under GB.

Next- No planes are being "taken away" from anyone. If you want to fly a plane not included in the base pack, download the file for that nation that has the plane you like. For example, If you want to fly a Beaufighter, all of them will be in the British module. If you want to fly the P-51B, download the American module. Beta's are dtill available as single file downloads, just like they are now. If you want to play on-line with any of these modules, you'll just need to announce it ahead of time.

The naming convention for on-line play is being worked on. This will allow a user to look at the name of a mission and realize whether or not he has the necessary modules. No more frustrated newbies that stumble into a mission and don't have the needed files ( A very frequent occurence when spoon's loadouts were being used). Just remember, planes are not being excluded, just organized.

Countries- Like it or not, the original allied nations were France, Great Britain, and Poland. To be honest, the US didn't even play a significant part in the air war over Europe until 1943 (that's Europe, not Africa).That's why we didn't limit allied nations to the UK and US. Let's repeat, the nations and planes chosen were done so to allow the greatest diversity of both missions and aircraft. We would easily pit the combined historical knowledge of the crew members against any individual. The initial aircraft, and nations were chosen for SPECIFIC reasons. The Hurricane being used as a French plane is an example.

The Crew is a group of SDOE players and developers whose interest is in increasing the popularity of SDOE, making SDOE an alternative to the expensive on-line sims, and making things easier for new and current users. This can ONLY happen if the mess we have now is straightened out. In addition, no one person has the resources to accomplish everything that needs to be done to put something like this in place. Because of this, we've put a team together.

We are posting under the crew so anyone working on this can post under this call sign, and no one has to try and keep track of who is and isn't a member, or which responses are or aren't from crew members. In addition, people have tried to do things in the past few months and have been singled out with some pretty nasty responses, usually starting with , "I could do better". Funny thing is, people responding in such a manner have usually done nothing but stir up the rest of the community. When's the last time anyone has heard from Spin? We have even tried to e-mail him. He took such a beating from several people, we wonder if he'll be back. Tailslide and several other people who have played key roles in getting SDOE where it is today underwent the same abuse and lost interest in doing SDOE development. Individual members of the Patch Team have had the same thing happen to them. There is a difference between constructive criticsm and attacking someone, unfortunately some members of this community have proven they don't know where to draw the line. So, if you wonder why we post as a group, just dig up some responses from other topics.

WTG, the suggested planes for the empty spots are just that- suggestions. We included names so people would have an idea of what COULD be done. For example very few people on this board could have come up with a list of French or Polish bombers (not counting Pachy and Zur). Parfile #'s will be set so people will know where thigs go.

We specifically did NOT mention WWI as we feel the WWI community is growing so fast, it will need it's own system. As the WWI community is drawing new players who are ONLY interested in WWI, it needs to have it's own standard set. We've talked with Argon about reserving a big chunk of parfile numbers for WWI, and working together so we don't use the same parfile numbers.

posted 08-24- 08:45 AM               

The important thing to stress here is that at long last, some-one ( or ones ) is actually going to do something!!!!!

I would rather have a pack setup that I didn't agree with than no pack set up at all. Which was where things were going before the crew.

For those new to the subject ( such as Kilroy ) search back and look for 'plane-pack' topics on the forum, and you will see what the 'crew' is all about.

I nearly quit coming here when things got silly with people more intent on abuse than constructive thoughts.

p.s. Way back amongst the chaos of past PP discussions, I mooted that WW1 should go for it's own standard. I think this is a good move.

In fact, my only concern for the future is whether or not us plane builders can fill the gaps in the framework!!!! It seems sensible to me that those looking for project ideas could take a cue from the list, and build planes designed to flesh out the struture and provide more options.

posted 08-24- 08:56 AM               

this is a purely historical note and not a comment on your project (I'll do that later).

As far as I know, use of the Hurricane by French pilots was anecdotical.

A very small number of Free French pilots joined the RAF before BoB, and occured to fly the Hurricane. But these were purely RAF planes: markings, squadrons, and language used on the radio. 100% British, except the Canadian uniform.

Later the Free French "Alsace" group used a small number of Hurricanes in Egypt, under their own colours.

After 1943 one Fighting French unit was equipped with Hurribombers, and saw little action before they were re-equipped with more modern fighter-bombers (probably P-47s, gotta check that).

posted 08-24- 09:28 AM               

What it IS is an effort to organize something that has become too large to continue in its current chaotic form. There's what? 80 planes now (not counting WWI)? The "online standard" has gotten to where it MUST be just a subset of the total plane set. Looks to me like the idea is to provide a "representative" group of planes from which online mission builders can create good "standard" missions that newcomers will actually be able to play by downloading a single update (which will STILL be pretty big, but not nearly as big as it could be).

Meanwhile, the "left out" planes are not really left out, since they are in their own "online standard" packs that anyone who wants can download. I suspect that pretty much everyone will download the German and British planepacks, so there's your Hurricane and 109G/K and 190D

Sounds like a pretty sensible approach to me. Now if only they had picked the F4U-1A (which is pretty much ready as is) instead of the F4U-1D (which I guess I have to work on now)

One other issue: The Crew may want to talk to Bryan about the status of the 1.5.2.10 patch--I got a sneak peak at it and it clears up a number of problems, so if it's going to be available "soon," it may be a better version for the online standard...

P.S. did you guys notice you can email "The Crew?" So it kinda doesn't matter "who" they are, since you CAN give them input, or even slam them here if you like They appear to be the ones willing to do the work on this, and that's always been "good enough" to establish whether someone is "worthy" to do a planepack in the past

P.S.S. I guess if it was up to me, I'd put in the Hurricane I instead of the Spitfire I, but as I noted, all you'd have to do is download the "British Pack" and you'd have the "Full Monty" anyway...

posted 08-24- 09:51 AM               

We went into this knowing we would not please everyone, but you have to admit, something being done is better than nothing being done. If you don't agree, then feel free to contact us and we will put you to work on doing something other than complaining-- which some people prefer to do than doing anything

And yes Kilroy-- it is possible much of our "involvement" in this endeavor came about before you arrived. While we weren't "voted" in-- someone had to do it for SDOE's sake. While we weren't always known as "The Crew"- we have always been concerned with how SDOE continues to survive-- some of us have been here since the very beginning.

posted 08-24- 09:59 AM               

Thank you!

posted 08-24- 10:21 AM               

Werner

posted 08-24- 10:26 AM               

I remember flying early on with some of the old timers having a blast with it. We didn't have 100 planes to select from back then we we got a kick in the ass out of it.

I myself would love to fight again with Tailslide, Spyder, Sweep, Mk-10, Elf, (to mention just a handfull) but some will never return because of a variety of reasons, one of them being online flyability of this game.

What can it hurt to do this??? We still will be able to use all the great stuff you great guys put out, let it happen...

posted 08-24- 10:28 AM               

1) we only have the P.11 currently

2) we don't have any of the contemporary German planes we'd need to do it well (Ju 86, Ju 87B, Hs 123 etc.) and we wouldn't want them in a basic online pack anyway

It seems to me that the proper solution is to make this a "Polish mission pack" like the SWOL.

posted 08-24- 03:44 PM               

Well, you guys (yours guys aren't you?) certainly don't have to please me. I'm but one lone voice. Sounds like quite a few guys are behind this lock stock and barrell. Congrats!

I'll just shut my disenting mouth and slink off into the corner. Doesn't look like differing opinions are encouraged, or wanted. Thank goodness I got the IL-2 demo before they yanked it. I at least have something to keep me occupied.

Good luck "The Crew"

posted 08-24- 04:35 PM               

Honestly, I don't think anyone's trying to shut out dissenters here, I believe that most people are relieved that finally something is going to be done about the mess this game has become with all the add ons.

Werner

posted 08-24- 05:33 PM               

You need to voice your objections if anyone is going to be able to react to them. I don't see anywhere where The Crew is excluding anyone from contributing. Their email address is right up there. If you want to volunteer your time/talent, all you have to do is tell them, I reckon.

The alternative to what's been suggested is either to dump this all on one guy, and have it be obsolete AGAIN about 2 weeks after he releases the next planepack/online standard, or to do nothing, and watch the sim become effectively unplayable online.

Always easier to shoot down other people's ideas than to comment constructively, isn't it? If there's someone here volunteering to manage ALL the existing aircraft into an online standard pack that any newcomer can easily download and install, I'd sure like to see him step forward I suspect he'd be accompanied by a 6-foot-tall rabbit named Harvey, but there you go...

posted 08-24- 05:39 PM               

OK, so you do a base pack & it's par file whatever...you mentioned something about add on modules, are these to be par files? If not, what about structuring a par file per nation for the "over-flow" planes?
Like a par file for the US that would have just US Planes, German one that had just german planes, ect
This way a new guy has only one file to worry about to be online compatible, but a fan of say, german aircraft & fan of say, british aircraft wanted fight with other aircraft than the base pack, each could go & d/l thier favorite nation's par file (& the enemy's) & still be online compatible...

just some ideas to throw out there...

hip63

posted 08-24- 06:56 PM            

weasel

posted 08-24- 06:57 PM               

li'l b

posted 08-24- 07:32 PM               

You had best give in buddy. This action appears to be in full swing, and has support from many on the community. I agree with you, it does appear that your input is not wanted. Heck the post above that says...

"...join up if you wish-- but this is our plan and this is the direction we are going in..."

seems to indicates that you can join the effort, but don't expect your views to carry much weight unless they lock in with the crews. The die has been cast buddy.

BTW Kilroy, I have only flown with you once, but I have been around SDOE along time myself. I have help with one or two projects along the way, so it raises my hairs a bit to read things like...

"The Crew is a group of SDOE players and developers whose interest is in increasing the popularity of SDOE..."

that seems to imply if your not lock step with their ideas you want the opposite.

I'm not positive who compromises "The Crew" but I have a good idea. If I'm correct they know my thoughts on this, so my input has been given, no need to re-hash it.

This project could end up being great for SDOE, or it could end up being a cluster F&^%*. Only time will tell.

I really do wish them the best. I hope I'm proven wrong. They are the only bunch kicking in at the time, even if they do come accross as a bit heavy handed in there approach.

So Kilroy,best you move aside, enjoy IL-2, and allow the crew to do what they must. It could end up being great, who knows.

PR

posted 08-24- 07:49 PM            

Thanks "Crew"

posted 08-24- 08:23 PM               

Kilroy and others who have input. If you have an objection/suggestion etc, I think if you state it in a message and provide reasons to support your point, I believe it will be considered by the project members.

Condor out

posted 08-24- 08:49 PM               

They also said:
In exchange, there must be a promise from the community. While this is in design, in work or whatever you want to call it, threads like this STOP (there will walways be grumblings but this is not a grumble)

Finally:
I am willing to take it on. Is the ENTIRE repeat ENTIRE community willing to back me/us?

The answer was a resounding yes. That person was me quickly followed by Nat.

I do not expect people to agree with all the decisions "The Crew" makes.... I would expect them to live up to their word, as I am doing mine. And if you don't like what we are doing, or feel that we are being heavy handed, PR why didn't you post in that previous thread?

Because I also said:

If not post it so I don't waste any time....
Snickers
=FC=

posted 08-24- 09:03 PM               

I stopped reading every post at the FSIC site awhile back, and I stop reading all of yours even further back than that.

Save your preaching for someone else, I've heard it all before, as you have mine.

So do me a favor..don't waste my time, and save yourself some typing.

I hope you and "The Crew" are able to accomplish every thing you want, even though I do belive your approach to be a bit heavy handed. Heck, that's just you.

But don't bother with an answer Snickers, I won't.

PR

posted 08-24- 11:35 PM               

Paul Grubich
SDOE Community Director

posted 08-25- 02:41 AM               

I personally would have ran polls and such so the community got to vote on everything, but thats just me.

So yes Jerry, this is a dictatorship cause it doesn't seem to be a democracy.

Anyways, my only personal problem, (and I'm sorry but I can't think of an answer to it) is that some people won't download all the add on packs and that will result in the same thing that happened when new aircraft started coming out.

What happened to online (for those that wern't here) was that we had 20 planes but only the originals were ever being used online, this continued for quite a while.

Oh yeah one more, I would have made all the major countries have 5 fighters (or future slots), those would be, UK, USA, USSR, Germany and Japan.

All in all its a great thing that some people are organizing it all, I just hope everyone actually downloads all the packs so when we fly online we have the same wide varitity of planes to fly that we do know, with EVERYONE else.