posted 08-21- 12:48 PM               

Anyone got any ideas what this will be??

I like the hard one lol

~Nat~

posted 08-21- 01:52 PM               

Some of em had skis, I think...

posted 08-22- 09:57 AM               

Werner

posted 08-22- 01:12 PM               

Took me a while to get this one done because there isn't a lot of print material. Many of the sources I used contradicted each other too, so in some cases you have to sort of guess which is which from other places.

posted 08-22- 01:40 PM               

As to a Romanian nation, I have just the guy...

posted 08-22- 05:31 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Nat:
BIG thanks on the color scheme! Had no idea about that, I'll change it over to the yellow scheme

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Yeah, the only good picture of it is on that site though:
http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/farmer/120/iar.html

It's the first one under the "pictures" section half way down the page. This is the only IAR.80 remaining, a bunch of guys in Braslov got together and scrounged up the pieces from the various factories. Sadly it's on display outside!

Might want to keep the red one too, but FYI the main body is green and brown, the colour ballance in that photo on the web page is off.

posted 08-22- 09:26 PM            

I have been asked to play with the loadout for her and was wondering on the light MG's....what does the FN stand for? All I have data for are the Browning .30's and .303's....but nothing for the 7.92mm....the closest I can see is either the MG17 or MG81....any guidance on this one?

posted 08-22- 10:48 PM            

Very informative-- thanks!

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posted 08-23- 10:56 AM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Nat:
As you were saying about the late skin I did.. since this was late war it was likely only used on the later models.. I think I can work this into the loadout and have a Allied loadout option that will change the skin using the IAR81c loadout... I'll look into that

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That would be a cool idea. I don't know how many 81c's saw action against the Sovs vs. everyone else.

The game REALLY needs a skin selector!

Jeeves:
FN means "Fabrique National", they're more well known for post-war because they made one of the standard NATO rifles. As I mentioned in the e-mail, I'm pretty sure these were basically identical to the Brownings, simply re-chambered for the German 7.92's. The German round was not that powerful, so it's likely more a match for the .303 than the original .30 (ought-six).

The 13.2 may be completely different however, as if they are the Browning they would be using the larger 13.2x99 as opposed to the German 13.2x64, which was a crappy round.

I'm not 100% on any of this, so I asked Tony - he knows all.

posted 08-23- 11:19 AM               

Rifle-calibre Brownings were made by the Belgian firm of FN in a variety of calibres including 6.5mm Swedish and 7.92mm for various European air forces. However, the 7.7mm was the British .303", which was rated at 1,200 rpm.

The 13.2mm was simply the .50" M2 rechambered for the Hotchkiss HMG round - not difficult, as it was dimensionally almost identical except for the slight difference in calibre. Performance would therefore have been the same as the early M2 at 600 rpm (I doubt that it received the M2's 1940 improvements which pushed the RoF up to around 800). The Swedish AF used this gun - I'm not sure who else. The Japanese produced the same gun as the IJN 13mm Type 3, fitted to some late-model Zeros.

Note that he was replying to someone asking about the IAR, but stating that they used the 7.7mm light guns (they didn't). He then added...

Sorry, I forgot the muzzle velocity bit. The .303" (are you sure it was 7.7mm and not 7.9mm?) had an MV of around 750 m/s, depending on loading. The 13.2mm Hotchkiss managed around 790 m/s.

And then later when the poster corrected himself on the 7.7 issue...

I suspected as much. Well the muzzle velocity of the 7.92mm cartridge varied greatly depending on the loading; anything from around 750 to 900 m/s. The highest speeds were for the special v-Munition, developed for the Luftwaffe, and their guns had to be modified to take it, so I doubt that the Romanians used it. I think that all of the rifle-calibre Brownings were capable of about 1,200 rpm, or 1,000 rpm synchronised.

So there you have it! I'm going to buy his book right now, I should have done it a while ago.

posted 08-23- 11:51 AM               

Thanks I'll go take a look at the loadout Jeeves did for me last night. Your point on the 81c though is a good one, it's a late war model and could possibly not have been in Axis service, I'll see what I can find out though to confirm or deny that. Right now I've done alot of model tweaking and a little touchup on the FM, she's just a little slow right now at around 304mph@13,000ft, depending on which reports you believe sh'es either 13mph to slow, or 31mph to slow lol, I have 2 figures one of 317@13k and the other of 341@13k.

Great info Maury, big thanks

posted 08-23- 08:19 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nat:
Thanks I'll go take a look at the loadout Jeeves did for me last night. Your point on the 81c though is a good one, it's a late war model and could possibly not have been in Axis service

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Well the coup was in Aug 44, and I think production was over by that point. So actually I think the 81c would be found in both sets of colours.

I found a new page on the 80 (there's new ones all the time it seems), with some excellent diagrams and such:
http://www.squadron.com/old/IAR%2080%20Review1.html

The picture at the top is both good and bad. It has excellent mechanical details like the cowling, mass balances on the ailerons and the tail skid. On the other hand the Romanian "cross" marking is too thin - look at the other pictures.

Also notice the cockpit picture!!

The article says 2400 rounds per gun, but that sounds pretty high to me and it seems likely that that's the total figure instead. However that would suggest 600rpg for the 4 guns...

As to the speed issue, that's another one of those grey areas. Almost all sources (including this one) state it was up to 342mph. But then why would they list the speed at 317 at the lower altitude, which is also quite common? I'm pretty sure it was the faster speed though, but I'd love to see a pilot's manual.

Working...

posted 08-23- 08:40 PM               

Thanks alot Muary all very good info, and I tend to agree that the higher speed seems more realistic. I'll keep you posted and if you like give you a copy of the first beta to have a buzz around in

posted 08-29- 08:23 AM               

Thnaks go out to Jeeves for scanning the pics used to map the IAR with, they also helped in getting the size and shape spot on

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=V67th= "Naturlich"

"Stop the insanity"

posted 08-29- 08:40 AM               

Werner

posted 08-29- 08:52 AM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Werner Molders:
Maury - When it is convenient, please let me know about doing Romania, I haven't heard back from you yea/nay since my last email.

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Oh sorry, no, Denes' is all booked up writing.

posted 08-29- 08:56 AM               

The "roundels" on the top of the wing should be a _little_ further out I think. It's hard to say, most of the shots are oblique. But about 1/2 way seems right.

The yellow at the front stops before the cowl flaps, it's green from there back.

The yellow needs to be a bit punchier.

I'll ask Denes about this, he's the guy that took many of the pictures on the net.

posted 08-29- 09:04 AM               

The spinner should be yellow too.

In the picture it seems like there's a lip on the front of the cowl that shouldn't be there.

I think the skid is a tiny bit too tall.

posted 08-29- 12:43 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Nat:
Thanks Maury, I've just checked the tif and the roundels are about half way along.

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OK, cool.

quote:

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On the images hat Jeeves scanned the cowls were also yellow

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It could be, but defintely the exhaust pipe won't be!

quote:

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The skid is a new addition (as shown by the lack of texture yet), but I haven't had a good pic to judge that part from, so I'll make it a bit longer, on the only pics I have it actualy looks smaller!

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No, that's what I mean, I think it should be a bit smaller than you have it now. In construction the "back" leg is vertical and the front one is 45 degrees sloping back. I think the shape is good as is actually, but it's just a bit too big right now.

quote:

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Oh btw, I sorted out the question on speed, the IAR80 series had a top speed of 317mph@13k, whereas the IAR81series was 342mph

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That actually makes no sense, they both used the same engine and the 81 is somewhat heavier. If anything it should be the other way around!

But on another note, how do you get the loadouts to "work" when the plane can change significantly? For instance, the various versions of the Hs 129 had really big changes to the guns - if I have a loadout that removes a 1000kg gun, will the plane get 1000kg lighter? In the case of the IAR the plane keeps getting heavier and heavier as they add the guns, does this "just work"?

posted 08-29- 01:16 PM               

You asked about performance differences through the versions, this is somthing I've added to the Mig and IL4, and is actualy very easy to do.

You simply give the weapons inertia properties and phyLBS, You could model the ammo sepperate or add it to the weight of the gun itself, I guess that depends on where the ammo is stored as to if it's worth it or not. You can also add drag foils to the weapons aswell if you need to reduce performance more. The IL4 and Mig3 are very good examples, in that for the mig the FM is very different when loaded with gunpods, bombs or rockets, having given each pylon/pod weight and drag you realy notice the difference, realy speaking all pylons should always have been modeled this way, but I don't recal any other aircraft with these small but important features built in. But the point is, this will make a difference to the FM and bring each version into line.

On the speeds, thats exactly what I thought, same engine, only changes in the guns, I'd expect it the other way round aswell. I'll check it again though later to make sure.

Thanks Maury!