FSIC Messageboard
  SDOE General
  P-51D Final beta FM

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
profile | register | preferences | faq | search

UBBFriend: Email This Page to Someone! next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   P-51D Final beta FM
Da Jug head
Pilot
posted 08-10- 04:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Da Jug head   Click Here to Email Da Jug head     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
(Hey- I've been off work sick, so I got a lot done )

This FM will be posted a soon as I get an answer to a question about an add-on file.

This will probably be the final FM unless I hear of problems with stick response that cannot be alleviated by calibrating the sick or using the CTFJV utility.

Top speed is within 1 mph except for the 10-13K altitude because of superchargers not being modeled.

Roll rate is correct.

Turn rate is correct.

Take off and stall speeds are correct

Acceleration is correct.

Climb rate is really close.

Changed to a different skin for now. This will be undergoing some modeling changes in a few weeks, I'd like some feedback on which skin you guys would like to use as a default.

Ridgerunner is out as a choice, as there are books on CFS with that paint scheme on the cover. It would be great to use an easily recognizeable one like Casualty's Lou IV or Yardsticks Moose texture. Let me know what you think.

Below is the readme that will be included with this release.

-------------------------------------------
How realistic is this FM? The instructions below are a match almost item by item with the instructions given in the P-51 training video I have- and you need to use them with the new P-51D FM.

SDOE P51D Pilot's instructions.

This plane now has most of the characteristics of the real aircraft. There are some things that you need to know about this plane or you'll get in trouble very quickly.

Take off

1) With no ordinance, do NOT use flaps. With Ordnance use 1/2 flaps to prevent elevator blanking.
2) Apply several notches of rudder trim to the right
3) Apply several notches of aileron trim to the right
Note: The # of times you need to hit the trim keys depends on your keyboard settings. If you are using the default settings, try 4 to 8 clicks. You'll find the right amount with practice.
2) Pull back on the stick to hold the tail down. The Mustang was known to tip forward if too much throttle was applied with the brakes on.
3)Ramp up to about 25% throttle, then release your brakes.
4) once she gets to about 10mph, gradually increase your throttle to max.
5) Keep the tail down until you are over 50mph
6) Let the tail raise, but apply very slight back pressure to maintain a slight up angle.
7) Wait until your airspeed is over 110 mph before trying to lift off, the best speed is over 120 mph. Trying to lift off too early will cause the plane to roll to the left and bury your left wing tip in the concrete (ouch). When carrying external ordnance, takeoff speed WITH flaps can be as high as 135+ mph.
8) Never slam the throttle forward if you find yourself lifting off before your power is at 100%, You'll most likely roll into the ground.

Flight
Non wep power is 85% throttle.

Turning

Low speed- here's where most people will get into trouble.
If you are going at a low speed <300 mph, (the slower the speed, the more you need to follow these instructions) tight turns require varying the throttle. Pulling the stick back hard with full throttle will cause a spin, especially when turning left. Drop your throttle, ease into the turn, and then gradually ramp your throttle up. Depending on the amount of bank, the engine & prop will still cause the plane to flip if too much is applied. Go EASY until you learn the limits.

Hi speed turns-
Ease the stick back into the full back position. You can do this without going into a spin, but yank & bank may get you into trouble depending on your AOA and bank angle. You can still easily black out even when easing the stick into the full back position.

Accelerated stalls- This is a stall during a climb with a high angle of attack. The real P-51's will stall to the left and roll on their back. So will this one. The recovery procedure is very easy. Let her nose drop, you can even apply rudder and aileron to do a "hammerhead". AS SOON as the nose drops, let the stick go to a neutral position until your airspeed is above stall speed and she'll fly out of the stall without spinning.

Spins- everybody's favorite (yeah right)

When she starts to go into a spin IMMEDIATLY let go of the stick or put it in a neutral position. ANY attempt to stop the spin before the nose is down will only make it worse. If spinning to the left, reduce power at first as the engine and prop torque will accelerate the spin. When the nose is down, you can apply opposite rudder. (This matches the real stall recovery procedure for the P-51)

In a nose down attitude the real P-51 would pull itself out within 3 rotations on a spin to the left, and less on a spin to the right. This FM will do the same thing.

Trim

Once in the air, set the aileron & rudder trim to neutral. Get your speed to about 300 mph and trim the ailerons. The P-51 was unique in that, once the trim was set, it required little to no aileron trim when changing speed. You just have to wait until your speed steadies out before doing any adjustments. It will tend to roll slightly while accelerating, so be patient. I was surprised to find out this FM will do the same thing. Setting the trim at 300 mph, I took her to 350, 400, and down to 250 mph. The most I ever had to trim by was one click from the 300 mph setting.

Elevator trim is also fairly neutral once set.

Diving, the real P-51D picks up speed quickly in a dive and has a slight tendency to pull to the left in a prolonged dive, so does this one. Correct with either slight stick pressure or rudder trim (same methods used in the P-51 Army Air Corps traing video).

Landing

Use full flaps, stall speed is <95 mph so flare out when you get close to that point

If you miss your landing, gradually apply power (easy on the throttle boys). Once your airspeed is over 115, raise your gear and flaps and go around again. This is another case where slamming the throttle forward to pickup speed can cause you to roll into the ground (just like the real P-51's)

Well that's all I can think of for now- Good Hunting!

--------------------------------------
P.S. OPEN PLANE IS AWESOME!!!!!!!

[This message has been edited by Da Jug head (edited 08-10-2001).]

IP: Logged

Rendsburger
Pilot
posted 08-10- 05:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rendsburger   Click Here to Email Rendsburger     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Da Jug Head,
that sounds great.
Does this mean that the P51 is no longer the ueberplane in SDOE?
Or on the other hand, are the FM of the axis planes not good enough?!
Rendsburger

IP: Logged

Snickers
Pilot
posted 08-10- 05:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Snickers   Click Here to Email Snickers     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
P51 never was uber... It may not have been right, but not uber like the Mossie was in PP5.2.... Cant wait to get my hands on it. Hey wait! Im Coordinator for the DIME group! Gimme a copy....

------------------
Snickers
=FC=
Thou shalt maintaineth altitude, lest the earth rise up and smite thee.

[This message has been edited by Snickers (edited 08-10-2001).]

IP: Logged

Rendsburger
Pilot
posted 08-10- 05:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rendsburger   Click Here to Email Rendsburger     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Snickers,
i never saw anyone get a chance to kill a P51 online it ends everytime with a suicidemission so i found its an ueberplane.

Rendsburger

IP: Logged

Werner Molders
JAG
posted 08-10- 05:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Werner Molders   Click Here to Email Werner Molders     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The P51 was a hot plane, even after you strip away anything 60 years may have done to its reputation. I had an abortive duel with Dinga mano a mano P51 versus 109G, and while we didn't have time to finish it, if you asked the computer, the 109 won the day (due to damage incurred being lost in packets across the Pacific I guess). In any case, I thought the old P51 FM was pretty good, perhaps even a little sluggish in a climb, but based on DJH's first post it sounds like we've got ourselves a bullseye now.

Better start practicing with your Rotteflieger there Rendsburger!

Werner

------------------

Abbeville Field: Dedicated to the SDOE Experience.

IP: Logged

Snickers
Pilot
posted 08-10- 05:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Snickers   Click Here to Email Snickers     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Werner -
Anytime you want to go mano a pollo loco let me know (I get the P51D... )

Rends -
You mus never have flown against me when I was in a 51... I got shot down frequently...
------------------
Snickers
=FC=
Thou shalt maintaineth altitude, lest the earth rise up and smite thee.

[This message has been edited by Snickers (edited 08-10-2001).]

IP: Logged

Rendsburger
Pilot
posted 08-10- 05:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rendsburger   Click Here to Email Rendsburger     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Did you ever saw a P51 killing from AI in offline missions?
I never saw that.

Rendsburger

IP: Logged

Da Jug head
Pilot
posted 08-10- 06:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Da Jug head   Click Here to Email Da Jug head     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Rends-

The Fw190A FM is a dog- it's been dumbed way down. Have you ever seen the 190 do a 360 degree roll in 2.5 seconds? That's the real roll rate at 275 mph for the 190.

I'm waiting for one of our DIME members to import his modeling changes to Tailslide's realistic 190 FM. (hint hint)

That will be a match up.

The problem with the FM TS did, was it was released before we understood there were MAJOR differences in stick response based on the stick and the motherboard. We can now correct that with the mfgs, calibration utility or CTFJV utility, and Zur's "how to calibrate your joystick."

IP: Logged

Werner Molders
JAG
posted 08-10- 06:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Werner Molders   Click Here to Email Werner Molders     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Snick - One of these days, one of these days.

Rends - Actually offline I've seen it go both ways in a big melee sometimes, but I don't usually play much offline. 1 v 1 offline, I've got no idea. Regardless though, it sounds like the new P51 FM is bang on, so its only as uber as its real-world counterpart. As for the 109s, I always thought their FMs were pretty accurate too, but maybe Da Jug can speak to this.

Werner

------------------

Abbeville Field: Dedicated to the SDOE Experience.

IP: Logged

Rendsburger
Pilot
posted 08-10- 06:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rendsburger   Click Here to Email Rendsburger     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Werner Molders:

Better start practicing with your Rotteflieger there Rendsburger!

Werner


Werner,
to few people flyin online at the moment. And i´m also to busy with SDOE work to spend much time for practice.

Rendsburger

IP: Logged

Da Jug head
Pilot
posted 08-10- 06:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Da Jug head   Click Here to Email Da Jug head     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
UPLOADED

BTW- do you guys like the self extracting zip approach?

[This message has been edited by Da Jug head (edited 08-10-2001).]

IP: Logged

Sunray
Pilot
posted 08-10- 07:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Sunray   Click Here to Email Sunray     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Do I need to install the second FM first or just close my eyes and push the button?
Thanks.

IP: Logged

Da Jug head
Pilot
posted 08-10- 07:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Da Jug head   Click Here to Email Da Jug head     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just push the button. If it asks if you want to overwrite files say yes.

Each beta was stand alone- each releae replaces the files from the previous ones or installs ALL of the necessary files if you didn't install the earlier ones

IP: Logged

Sunray
Pilot
posted 08-10- 08:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Sunray   Click Here to Email Sunray     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Great. Thanks. The Zip thing is the best. I tried the aircraft in both my regular 1.5 patch and the .9 patch. It may be my game/machine but it CDT'd in .9. However, after I installed it, my .9 patch worked a little better. When I ran a P-51 mission, it CTD. Worry not, it's just a game. My machine does NOT have the greatest video card, so I'm not the best indication. Your 51 flies great in 1.5, but still 'pulls' to the left on take off. This is likely operator failure. It works like hot damn in the air and it's whole bunch prettier.
Oh, and did I thank you? Thanks.

[This message has been edited by Sunray (edited 08-11-2001).]

IP: Logged

Sunray
Pilot
posted 08-11- 01:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Sunray   Click Here to Email Sunray     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
And I hope you are feeling better.

IP: Logged

nealg
Pilot
posted 08-11- 02:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for nealg   Click Here to Email nealg     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
DJH - Just thought I'd post a quick rundown...just tried her out ( the Pony is my 2nd favorite plane behind the Spit, so her performance is important to me, hehe ).

Takeoff - Used the stock training takeoff. Very nice, still rode left on me as nose touched down, but easily corrected with gentle persuasion. A little rudder juggling as speed builds, but she responds beautifully, and answers well to a loving touch. Lifted off at about 130, with no problem other than the expected left wing dip, but a slight right rudder and couple more notches of right trim brought her well into line. From there, free flight was a joy; soon was looping, S'ing, and yo-yo'ing with no problems to report.

Combat Training; Against the AI only, 1 on 1, had absolutely no trouble keeping advantage against the AI FW. Again, noticed no problems. The real test will come against a online opponent, when fear forces me to try to make her do things she wasn't supposed to do.

Landing: Hmmm. I suck. It has nothing to do with the FM...I have been having trouble landing for a couple of months now...well, I showed no improvement tonight. It helps if I don't hit the Gear key just before touchdown...this tends to negate a really pretty approach.

All in all, this really looks good...congrats on a great job. Maybe you should be sick more often? ( KIDDING!!!! ). Thanks for the hard work.

------------------
nealg=FC=

IP: Logged

All times are CT (US)

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:

Contact Us | Fighter Squadron Information Center

(This site Copyright (c) 1999 Inertia LLC)

Powered by Infopop www.infopop.com © 2000
Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.45c