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Author
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Topic: Video cards for SDOE
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Da Jug head
Pilot
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posted 06-02- 10:34 PM
   
A lot of people are looking at upgrading their video cards and going to a Geforce2MXThere's a new kid on the block that matches the GeForce2 GTS performance at almost the same price as a Geforce2 MX! Go here for a review http://www.maximum3d.com/reviews/kyro21.htm[/URL] and here
http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/01q2/010425/index.html
and here
http://www.riva3d.com/4500/
[This message has been edited by Da Jug head (edited 06-02-2001).] IP: Logged |
Nat
JAG
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posted 06-02- 11:38 PM
I'm just through the 1st page (start the rest in a sec), but this sounds very cool, I'm looking to upgrade from my V3 but couldn't afford NVidia, and wouldn't want to buy from those money grabbers anyway if I didn't have to... well, sounds like I don't have to  Good find Da Jug, I'm realy gonna have to look for this card over here IP: Logged |
Da Jug head
Pilot
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posted 06-03- 12:05 AM
In the tom's hardware review, the Kyro II chipset kicks the daylights out of the GeForce2 GTS when FSAA is on, an ti comes with 2 modes- 4X4 and 2X2I saw it at pricewatch for $110- OEM, no TV out
$121- retail with TV out This is a 64MB card! Skinnyman has the 4000XT which is as fast as the MX and under $100. Thanks to him for making me aware of this as I haven't paid much attention to the Kyro chipset since the first generation was a really bad performer. The new generation seems to be MUCH better. There is one thing the GeForce cards have this doesn't- hardware T&L One more note- VIA bought Savage and is releasing a new S3 chipset based on the Savage 4 with many improvements including dual texture pipelines (finally!) and hardware DVD support. The chips are out and are now available to board mfgs. Looks like the only lock Nvidia will have in a few months is on the high end cards with the GeForce3 IP: Logged |
Spanky the Mad Dog
Pilot
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posted 06-03- 06:57 AM
Cool stuff that someone is stepping up to challange The Big N. IP: Logged |
Nat
JAG
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posted 06-03- 11:21 AM
Well, I just been to check at my local store, and apparently they aint available in the UK yet.. as always we lag behind.. so anyways, think I'll have a talk with a couple of friends about using thier credit card and buy one over the net. fingers crossedIP: Logged |
Poniat
Pilot
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posted 06-03- 05:08 PM
Thanks, Da Jug Head,I'll certainly kee an watchfull eye on this board and refrain myself from spending any money on a Voodoo 4500 yet. And if anyone comes acrros a container full of Kyro II boards washed out on the beach while walking the dog, please lob on this way. It may be the quickest way of getting one over here. Cheers ------------------
9./JG3_Poniat IP: Logged |
Todesvogel
Pilot
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posted 06-09- 11:29 PM
Just got Glide on my Voodoo5 5500 working properly with a clean install of Win98SE and the 3dfx .04 WHQL driver.It is nice to finally have smooth (glide) clifs and decent frame rates. The 5500 seems a good match for my (slow) Celery 300a->450. IP: Logged |
silas
Pilot
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posted 06-10- 01:26 AM
The Hercules 3D Prophet 4500 seems like a good card for the cost. I was looking at one today, it was priced at $229 Cdn. Not bad for a 64 Mbyte card.
I may get it tomorrow - my wife gave the Ok. So if I want it, it's mine.......I'm thinking about it.
I have wanted to replace my voodoo 3 for a while and those new 512 skins make it very alluring, very alluring indeed.
And one more thing, they had the voodoo5 for $149 Cdn. ------------------
silas Demon's Runway
Fortes fortuna adiuvat
Fear, that's the other guy's problem. IP: Logged |
Private Roger
Pilot
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posted 06-10- 05:36 AM
O.k. my Kyro report with SDOE...D3D frame rates are in the toilet compared to my old GeForce Mx. I hope you guys aren't looking for exact numbers, but I've flown this game enough and watched that little yellow frame rate counter sufficent times to tell you they are easily 20% to 30% less then what they were. That however is the only bit of bad news I wil be reporting today! The Open GL frame rates went through the roof!!!! Playing with the Patch I had frame rates that were 25% to 40% better than what I had previously been getting!! My system is a Athlon 1.1 gig
256 meg ram
19' View Sonic PF790
30 gig HD
SB Live MX
Hercules Prophet "Kyro" 64MB My settings while playing SDOE 1600x1200 screen resolution
Clouds On (clouds look so great with this)
Everything else set to the max I had frame rates in a Africa mission last night that hovered between 75 and 100. Clouds on, and 8 planes in the air over airfields. The funny thing is, I bumped it down to 1024x768 and the frame rates did not change at all! So, right back up to 1600x1200. I luvs High Rez!!! Hope this helps a little.
PR=FC=
[This message has been edited by Private Roger (edited 06-10-2001).] IP: Logged |
Nat
JAG
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posted 06-10- 06:59 AM
Great PR, I've a very siimilar setup in that I'm running a Duron @1Ghz, so I'd expect similar results (I also only fly @1600x1200)So, I'm looking for a replacement for my Voodoo3, would you reconmend the Kyro personaly (I wont hold it against you  ) Have you tried any other games with it, and if so, how do you find the image quality? IP: Logged |
Spanky the Mad Dog
Pilot
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posted 06-10- 11:36 AM
You guys should always try to buy at a local store with a good return policy, Like staples or EB.
I always return stuff I'm not happy with, I think some people feel obligated to keep something they buy even if they arn't satisfied. RETURN IT if you don't like it.
I'll try out a kyro2 it might have been worse in D3D compared to a geforce MX but we shall see how it compares to a banshee.
I'm going to do a bunch of benchmarking before I pop the kyro in just to see. It does seem to be a GL card from the reviews, Hopefully a new driver can help the D3D perfomance. Are you runnning any updated drivers or stock out of the box?
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Private Roger
Pilot
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posted 06-10- 11:56 AM
I ran it in Warbirds III (BTW that game is looking pretty good) and the FR seemed very good. That games only allows me to run D3D. I was setup at 1600x1200 32bit color. No stutters and pretty as a picture. I was pleased.I downloaded the latest drivers (I forget the number) from the Hercules site. I'm loving the card so far, and my brother loves it to, see he inherited my GeForce MX! PR=FC= IP: Logged |
Poniat
Pilot
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posted 06-11- 10:48 AM
I contacted the shop who were going to get the shipment of Hercules 4500 cards last week. It turns out it's still vapourware  .They told me about the rumour about Hercules (they meant Guillemot who own the Hercules trade mark, I assume) being in the process of being bought out by nVidia, whatever. So much for the 105 UKP equivalent (Nat, that was what I meant) card in a corner shop Could anyone recommend a reliable mail order company in the US? Cheers ------------------
9./JG3_Poniat IP: Logged |
ArgonV
Pilot
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posted 06-11- 11:53 AM
So what is THE best graphics card RIGHT now?IP: Logged |
Da Jug head
Pilot
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posted 06-11- 01:16 PM
If you have $400, the Leadtek Geforce3, it uses the Conextant video chips for TV out and you can put up to 1024X768 out to a TVImagine FS in 1024X768 on a 32" TV! Otherwise, I'd give the Hercules board preference over a GeForce2 based on the reviews. I'd like to get my hands on one and try it out! Just need someone to send me a review board [This message has been edited by Da Jug head (edited 06-11-2001).] IP: Logged |
Sailor
Pilot
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posted 06-11- 04:06 PM
I'd be very surprised to see Guillemot / Ubi Soft being bought by Nvidia. Can't remember exactly the float but the capital is pretty well tied up in the hands of the founding brothers. After buying Hercules and Thrustmaster I think they are still trying to buy more rather than the reverse.
BTW the Kyro card is built thanks to and allaince with ST Microelectronics (formerly SGS Thomson) which is more than 10 times bigger than Nvidia for turnover and profits !
Otherwise I've read about a possible future version of the Kyro 2 with T&L hardware function...IP: Logged |
Nat
JAG
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posted 06-11- 06:13 PM
Their reason though for not addin T&L is quiet a reasonable one, in that they believe all modern CPU's carry out this fubction better and faster than a graphic card itself, meaning why add something thats done better by something you have already Myself though, I would like to be able to see the difference this has, but I suspect you would never know the difference. IP: Logged |
silas
Pilot
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posted 06-11- 06:40 PM
Well I went out a got me a Hercules 4500 card on Sunday. So far I'm happy with it, the colours are a bit different than my old voodoo 3 but I think the Hercules is more stable. The textures in SDOE look good, the cliffs are nice and sharp. The game very smooth and the look of the landscape is much better. The frame rates are about the same in the on-line standard but as I said every thing is just nicer. With the latest patch it is also excellent, except when I was coming in for a landing in the B17, as I came closer to the runway it was like there was a heat haze over it. But I was landing in Africa so it kind of fitted in. ------------------
silas Demon's Runway
Fortes fortuna adiuvat
Fear, that's the other guy's problem. IP: Logged |
Nat
JAG
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posted 06-11- 07:36 PM
Well, I'm glad that you guys are having good results, especialy since I've done some shouting about how good this card is supposed to be. Myself I'm getting it mostly for the 512 texture support, on my new CPU (Duron 900 @ 1Ghz) I'm getting FPS in both D3D and Glide at a maximum of 97fps to normal combat missions (3x109 vs 3xLa7, clouds, max texture and detail), thats with a V3 2000pci, of a steady 45, but I want those 512 textures damit! lolI'll be getting mine from the missus in Detroit, found an online comapny offering the 4500 with TV out for $129, so I hope to have mine in about a month I reckon. Glad you guys that went and bought one of these have seen good improvements ~Nat~ IP: Logged |
ArgonV
Pilot
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posted 06-11- 08:33 PM
So right now the best card to get for performance and compatibility would be either a Hercules 4500 or a Geforce3?IP: Logged |
Nat
JAG
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posted 06-11- 09:02 PM
Argon, the GForce3 is a far superior card to the 4500, thing is it also costs 3-4 times more, if you want a good card for little money, the the 4500 is your friend, it outperforms GF2MX and is close to the level of a GTS, but no where near the level of a GF3, GF3's are fine if you have loads of money to blow IP: Logged |
ArgonV
Pilot
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posted 06-11- 09:10 PM
Well then its a good thing I have loads of money to blow, eh?  Im looking at either the AsusTek GeForce2 GTS Pro with Built-in 64MB 400Mhz DDR (I saw some with 256, but I think those are the Pure instead of the Pro) Or the Geforce3 (Which I havent seen yet) [This message has been edited by ArgonV (edited 06-11-2001).] IP: Logged |
ArgonV
Pilot
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posted 06-11- 10:04 PM
Ok now for the next BIG question:I need a motherboard!! Here are MY specifications: -Must support Geforce2 GTS and up
-Must have 4 DIMM slots for mem
-Must handle a AMD Athlon 1.4 Ghz CPU
-No onboard video or sound So whats the best out there? And where do I get it!?!? Thanks! IP: Logged |
Tailslide
Pilot
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posted 06-11- 10:39 PM
I have an Athlon 1.1 gig and a geforce 2 gts. I would advise NOT buying any of the current VIA chipset motherboards if you plan on running windows 2000. There are lots of problems with it that may or may not be addressed in windows XP. Sad thing is the VIA chipset is pretty much the only thing available at the moment. TS IP: Logged |
Da Jug head
Pilot
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posted 06-11- 11:04 PM
Argon- if you're going to get a GeForce3, get the Leadtek board, it's only 1 FPS slower than the fastest GeForce3, but it is the only board that uses the Conextant TV chips. ALL other GeForce3 use the brooktree chipset which will only support 640X480 on the TV out.If you are looking at the GeForce2 GTS keep this in mind. The Hercules card has almost TWICE the frame rate when FSAA is turned on when compared to a GeForce2 GTS, otherwise the performance is pretty much on a par, But the hercules card costs less. On another note. Just put a system together using a VIA chipset 266Mhz DDR MB and WinME. I ran into no problems. For home use WinMe is actually better than Win2000 anyway. IP: Logged |
Spanky the Mad Dog
Pilot
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posted 06-12- 01:19 AM
I'm going to go with the asus a7v133 motherboard. Any warnings I should be aware of?
I'm just runnning win98 and don't see a change in the future. I would wait for more boards but I really need to upgrade right now before I spend the money on something else. I've pretty much decided to go for the kyro2 also. Geforce3 is just to expensive here. 629.
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Biggles3
Pilot
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posted 06-12- 07:22 AM
T.L: well i think that it is very noticable. Maybe not so much with games like FS but with new game like fs2002 it increases the FR buy 25% because the CPu already has loads of work to do so the card helps out.IP: Logged |
Nat
JAG
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posted 06-12- 08:08 AM
Spanky, only one point on your choice of Motherboard, make sure thats the Via KT133A chipset and NOT the Via KT133 chipset, there is a big difference that maybe is whats causing Tailslide his problems. The KT133 chipset wasn't designed with 133mhz bus in mind (although it can run at 133) and has alot of problems (can't remember the details, but it's one of the things I read when I was checking out new motherboards before buying this one 2 weeks back). The KT133A chipset has been "debugged" and is now fine with 133mhz bus and allows a good amount of overclocking through the BIOS, eg, my Duron 900 now runs at 1008mhz (1Ghz) because I changed the setting in BIOS to 112mhz FSB, and the Duron is hard coded to a multiplyer of 9.So again, Don't get a board with the KT133 chipset, it must have the KT133A chipset. IP: Logged |
Nat
JAG
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posted 06-12- 08:23 AM
Spanky, did a little checking The A7 motherboard uses the 133A chipset, so thats fine... .but.. before you buy it, compair it against my motherboard, the Jetway 663AS Ultra. I onmly say this because having read the specs for the A7, it seems like they are identicla, infact, they even look identical! But I'm faily certain tha the A7 board is much more expensive that the Jetway. Asus A7 http://www.asus.com.tw/products/Motherboard/socketa/a7v133/ Jetway 663AS Ultra http://www.jetway.com.tw/evisn/product/amd/va3/va3.htm My system spec is now:
Duron 900 @ 1Ghz (running at 224mhz DDR)
Jetway 663AS Ultra m/b
196mb PC100 RAM (128/32/32)
Voodoo3 2000 PCI
30Gb ATA100
8.4GB ATA66
40x CD
8x DVD
WinTV
PCI Modem
SB 128 Some people don't like Jetway boards, but I've had a total of no problems with it, other than it not allowing better overclocking Anyway, this is only meant as a heads up on prices for comparative motherboards and my experience with the one I went with Maybe the A7 is superior, but I wanted to fill you in before you bought it. Hope this helps Spanky ~Nat~ IP: Logged |
Spanky the Mad Dog
Pilot
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posted 06-12- 09:45 AM
THanks for the tips Nat, I've never heard of a jetway though. Maybe its only overseas? The store I work with pretty much just deals in asus board for amd chips, well one gigabyte. The one I'm looking at is the most expensive one. He is the cheapest guy in town, I'm going to look at some online dealers and see what the prices would be like to get a chip and board shipped up here. I know I can get crucial ram cheaper from the states, then generic ram in town here. IP: Logged |
ArgonV
Pilot
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posted 06-12- 10:35 AM
It looks as tho those boards dont support anything over 1 Ghz?  IP: Logged |
Nat
JAG
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posted 06-12- 11:01 AM
Argon, they support Athlon upto 1.4Ghz and Duron upto 1Ghz.. unless you tweak around a little The cool thing is they are DDR boards that don't require DDR SDRAM, so they save you money IP: Logged |
Jerry
Pilot
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posted 06-12- 03:15 PM
I have an Asus A7 with an Athlon 1.2Gb. No problem.IP: Logged |
darthbob
Pilot
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posted 06-12- 06:17 PM
i have an 8mb i740, my da still believes it is up to date after 3 or so years. there is no chance in hell of getting upgraded. haha, also, my fan is busted and da refuses to replace it, saying he can fix it, dont get me wrong he is a master at fixing things but this is totally broke. hard drive is to small and full. oh well, at least i can run mine sweeper.IP: Logged |
Nat
JAG
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posted 06-12- 06:46 PM
LOL darth, you have my condolances, I mean that, I'm out of work and literaly spend every spare (and not so spare) penny on my 'puter, and getting info like this from Da Jug is very much appreciated cause my goal in life right now is to have a fast machine at a low price, and luckily thats what I've been able to do recently Good luck in talking your da' into getting you something even a little better, hell I have an AMD 550+56K modem+TNT1 (soon to be V3)+16it Soundcard sat ojn the shelf next to me cause I aint been able to sell it, almost a complete PC sat there! IP: Logged |
ArgonV
Pilot
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posted 06-13- 12:10 AM
Ok, I got the ASUS A7V133 with the correct chipset that Nat mantioned. I also got a 1.2Ghz AMD Athlon CPU with 200Mhz bus. (Its comming in, in a few days. The motherboard and case are here tho)Heres my next question: This board can do 266Mhz FSB. So can I run the board FSB at 266Mhz and have the 1.2Ghz Athlon run at 200Mhz FSB speed? I assume you can, but the board can go down to 200Mhz FSB if needed. So far my system is looking to be this: 1.2 Ghz AMD Athlon CPU
Asus A7V133 MB
GeForce 2 GTS 64 MB AGP card
Voodoo 5 5500 PCI card on the side
15.3 GB HDD @ 7200 RPM
5.3 GB HDD @ 7200 RPM
6x DvD ROM drive
12x CDROM drive
SB Live! X-Gamer sound card (4-Speaker setup)
56k PCI US Robotics modem
Two 3 1/2 flppy drives
256 MB of PC100 SDRAM
IBM Camera
Cannon CanoScan FB 630P scanner
Apollo series P-2200 Printer (I won it in a door prize and it works just fine!)
17 inch Proview 770 monitor
And of course a new ATX case. [This message has been edited by ArgonV (edited 06-13-2001).] IP: Logged |
Nat
JAG
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posted 06-13- 08:02 AM
No you can't have 2 different FSB's on the same board LOL the DDR FSB is defined by your processor, which in your case should be 266mhz, I say this because I thought Athlon CPU's run on the 133mhz setting, still, if I'm wrong and it's using 12x100, then you're fixed between 200mhz and 224mhz DDRIP: Logged |
Da Jug head
Pilot
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posted 06-13- 08:19 AM
Argon
If you haven't bought the memory yet, go to www.crucial.com
You can get PC2100 certified memory (the 266MHZ stuff) for about half the price a local store will charge. They ship free in the US and they sell Micron memory.Current price is:
256MB PC2100 for $60-- Yes that's correct! Best of all, for once people outside the US can order memory from Crucial. I don't know how it compares to your guys prices locally, but here are the urls. Great Britain (here you go Nat)http://www.crucial.com/uk/index.asp France http://www.crucial.com/uk/pvtcontent/international.asp?country=FRANCE&x=7&y=10 Deutschland http://www.crucial.com/UK/pvtcontent/international.asp?country=GERMANY&x=11&y=12 Australia http://www.crucial.com/UK/pvtcontent/international.asp?country=AUSTRALIA&x=10&y=8 Nederlands http://www.crucial.com/UK/pvtcontent/international.asp?country=NETHERLANDS&x=13&y=11 Canada http://www.crucial.com/canada/index.asp Japan http://www.crucial.com/UK/pvtcontent/international.asp?country=JAPAN&x=11&y=10
[This message has been edited by Da Jug head (edited 06-13-2001).] IP: Logged |
ArgonV
Pilot
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posted 06-13- 11:49 AM
The 1.2Ghz Athlon CPU runs at 200Mhz FSB and Ive also seen some that run at 266Mhz FSB. I got the 200Mhz FSB CPU because its cheaper.Now about these DSW and DSFID switch settings... For the DSW if I use 133, it wont match up with any DSFID switch setting to equal out to 1200Mhz... But like you said I think the CPU uses the 100Mhz DSW switch setting which matches up with the 12.0x DSFID switch setting. IP: Logged |
ArgonV
Pilot
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posted 06-13- 11:49 AM
Oops! Double post...  [This message has been edited by ArgonV (edited 06-13-2001).] IP: Logged |
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