Missions and ribbons - FSIC Messageboard

FSIC Messageboard

SDOE General

Missions and ribbons

profile | register | preferences | faq | search

UBBFriend: Email This Page to Someone!

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Author	Topic: Missions and ribbons
NN Tym Cadet	posted 02-13- 10:09 AM Newbie question... Where can I find the "path" of the ribbons for my missions. They all seem to be in the "data" files, though the path still exists. Is it possible to get ribbons for multiplay missions ? Thanks ------------------ NN Tym nn_tym@noos.fr Normandie-Niemen IP: Logged
lfbpro Pilot	posted 02-13- 12:13 PM i think that pachy could answer your Q very well 'cause he worked hardly on this for Nations V2. ------------------ -=BAB=-lfbpro IP: Logged
Pachy Pilot	posted 02-13- 12:37 PM I'm at work right now, so there will be a more detailed answer later! However: find out which PAR file was installed by Nations V2 download the PAR file tools from www.openplane.org extract the parfile to a new directory using BigMunger's "UnBig" function find the ribbons in the new directory IP: Logged
NN Tym Cadet	posted 02-13- 01:42 PM Pachy, I am sorry if I seem a little rude, but you method seems ridiculously complicated... The PlanePlack and NationPack are filled with useless files, but much interesting info is lacking for mission building. It would be nice, for example, to have a file containing all the ribbons, with the paths ready for "copy/paste", so the mission builder just pick it there... ------------------ NN Tym nn_tym@noos.fr Normandie-Niemen IP: Logged
Jeeves Pilot	posted 02-13- 02:06 PM Nations is the par6 file.....but I think ribbons can be accessed through Media\GUI\Art....past that I am not sure of the path. Check the folders from that point on and you'll find them. ------------------ Brought to you by the campaign for a better Dauntless! Jeeves =FC= IP: Logged
Werner Molders Pilot	posted 02-13- 08:10 PM quote: Originally posted by NN Tym: *The PlanePlack and NationPack are filled with useless files, but much interesting info is lacking for mission building.* You mean useful, right? Werner ------------------ Visit Abbeville Field Today! IP: Logged
Starfire Pilot	posted 02-13- 08:16 PM Forgive my ignorance... But is there a way that we could get the medals and ranks and yes even ribbons for on-line play? If there is a way can someone please inform me as to how it might be done? ------------------ Wait I do not know how to fly this plane.... oh geezz... Gazette Team Memeber, SDOE. http://stephan.bondier.free.fr/gazette.html? [This message has been edited by Starfire (edited 02-14-2001).] IP: Logged
NN Tym Cadet	posted 02-14- 03:24 AM quote: Originally posted by Werner Molders: You mean use[b]ful, right? Werner [/B] No Werner... As far as I know useless means "that you cannot use"... SDOE is a "mission" based game (both online and solo play), isn't it ? So mission building should be the core of the game... Packs should be made with that in mind, shouldn't they ? There are ribbons and medals added to the Nation Pack... How can you use them ? Where is the list of those awards ? The readmes should say how awards are given. Each plane is supposed to need specific training missions (with the appropriate briefing) for taking off and landing, where are they ? Information on trimming for each plane, where are they ? Each plane was built for a specific role, where are the missions reflecting it ? What is the point of including planes without such missions ? How do you include the new planes in "historical" settings ? Where are the "historical" missions ? Where is the "historical" coherence in the choice of planes ? Just one example, the Russian front : I-16 and Yak-3... Coherent choice ? I know that SDOE is a labour of love, but it's clear that a brain is required behind it all... As far as I know, the plane sets don't reflect ANY historical battle, except, maybe, "Kanal Front 1942" (German Jabo offensive only). You cannot play : Battle of Poland 1939 Battle of France 1940 (no French plane, early german planes, except Bf109 E) Battle of Britain 1940 (no He111, early Ju87...) "All out" offensive RAF 1941/42 (no RAF bombers such as Wellington or Blenheim) Heavy bombers USAAF offensive (maps too small, that's another problem there... No B24) North Africa : Operation Torch, Tunisia Egypt/Lybia (no italian plane) Normandy 1944 (no American light or medium bomber) Malta (any year) (no italian plane) Pacific (any place, any year) (no japanese bomber of any kind) I could go on forever... Maybe the Plane Packs are for online play only... Then, where are the mission specifically made/tuned for online play ? The biggest flaw of SDOE, right out of the box, is the lack of missions and the incoherent (historically) set of planes. I have to say that Plane Packs and Nation Packs just make this problem even more striking. You can see SDOE as a "modelling" game, then all I see would be fine. But, as far as I know, it is an aerial combat simulator... Where is this aspect of the soft developped ? ------------------ NN Tym nn_tym@noos.fr Normandie-Niemen IP: Logged
Starfire Pilot	posted 02-14- 04:22 AM ok I will get in trouble for this but... It is a game Lighten up.... Second you want them yes ask but learn how to make these things and do the to release to others. Do not get on these guys for making the planes they like. Sorry I am partial myself to the P-51 and P-38's. heck they just got it to where there is Serch lights in the night sky. and infantry that shoot. let alone paratroopers. Either help out with them and learn to do it yourself or wait for them to get to it. Again It is a Game.... ------------------ Wait I do not know how to fly this plane.... oh geezz... Gazette Team Memeber, SDOE. http://stephan.bondier.free.fr/gazette.html? IP: Logged
Pachy Pilot	posted 02-14- 05:29 AM Ridiculously complicated? That's the teach-them-to-fish vs. give-them-a-fish attitude, that's all. Some information is missing, and some work is needed to retreive this information. Either you find someone to do it for you, or you do it yourself. Now, about coherence... Yes, the choice of planes might be inconsistent, so what? Plane makers are working for themselves only, not for other people's idea of what an interesting plane set would be. We don't have a dictator to plan who should work on what, and if we did, we would have no quality add-on at all. IP: Logged
NN Tym Cadet	posted 02-14- 08:03 AM quote: Originally posted by Pachy: Ridiculously complicated? That's the teach-them-to-fish vs. give-them-a-fish attitude, that's all. (snip). I don't want to start a war there... But what is the point to have information so painful to find, and to use ? Most people just don't use ribbons for their mission, it's no wonder... I have the feeling the game is designed for designers. I mean for "objects" designers. Not for other people. Personnally I have made some add-ons for Red Baron II and EAW and always tried to make a user-friendly soft, as much as I could. Users should not have to redo all the work others have done. They should be entitle to produce NEW things with older ones. quote: Now, about coherence... Yes, the choice of planes might be inconsistent, so what? Plane makers are working for themselves only, not for other people's idea of what an interesting plane set would be. We don't have a dictator to plan who should work on what, and if we did, we would have no quality add-on at all. This is just my point, this game is for plane designers... All quality add-ons are made by modellers, such as you Pachy. There should be other add-ons possible : missions, campaigns. So far, it's quite impossible. The plane set is quite a problem here. Imagine just a Normandie-Niemen campaign : no Yak-1, no Yak-9, no La-5, no Il-2... What I just want to point is that this game is very user unfriendly. You may think that is a good thing because it means that users form then an "elite" group. I have to say this is not how I consider this hobby. That said, I understand that a non-professional designer will only produce the add-ons that appeal to him. This is perfectly sensible. But "I" regret that those add-ons don't push SDOE toward historicity... ------------------ NN Tym nn_tym@noos.fr Normandie-Niemen IP: Logged
Arrowbase Pilot	posted 02-14- 10:25 AM I would not like to get more involved in this "querelle de clochers" but I have to admit that I agree on certain points as well with the detractors and the defenders of SDOE. Tym, you seem to forget that all the creators of add-ons for SDOE, if they make it for themselves, as says Pachy, they make it primarly for the community, otherwise, what is the interest? If you have the experiment of this kind of creation for EAW or Red Baron, you will understand that represents a lot of work and this work is made by amateurs (in the sense of " the one that loves ") without any commercial thought and not by professionals (I mean: not from entertainment industry). Certainly, this game has to satisfy everybody, the amateurs of flight simulators and the "historians" (of whom you seem to be a part.) as well. I understand your says but you should know that what is SDOE now is "practically" built from scratch (sorry MichaelH) and without all the add-ons makers, SDOE would be for a long time in the grave. A lot of time (and hands) is needed to satisfy everybody, but believe me, "le jeu en vaut la chandelle". And about the ridiculous of the operation to get back the ribbons and so on, excuse me but.... and anyway, it is the only way to process. A last thing without link with the debate: I made a painting there is a little while of a P47 which I supposed from the NN (but not sure at all), could you say more about it? Click the image below to download the skin. Bonne chance et bon vol Arrowbase IP: Logged
Jeeves Pilot	posted 02-14- 10:51 AM NNT... I see where you are coming from, but as a member of the original Nations team....let me try to relate what we were doing. One day, I was fed up with hearing German pilot calls coming from my Zero. Between Werner and I, we realized that since we weren't modelers, this was a way we could help. We got some quality guys to help us....Zoycite, gt, Poodle, Siggi, TS, and a few others I can't remember and we made the first installment. It seemed natural to include the ribbons and medals and when we could find each nationalities respective medals/ribbons we put them in. I think Zoy did a topnotch job on the Soviet ones especially. We released and wherever it went from there- we were at least happy to see that we accomplished what we set out to do. France and Australia came about and were of equal if not greater quality....hell I even learned about Bluegum ( to AGAS)!! And as far as why they are there if not represented in the missions- you are dead wrong. If you download any of my campaigns and do them in order- you will see a succession of ribbons earned. Why they dont work online, I am not sure....but they make offline much better. As far as how you earn them-- the ribbons are earned on a successful completion of a mission. For medals-- each have their own requirements. If you go to Media\GUI and check out the medal.ppf (I think that is the file)-- it outlines what you need to achieve to get the medals....whether it be so many kils, or missions completed. Same with pilot ranks-- when you achieve a certain score, you rise in rank. Past that--as far as not having an accurate plane set-- well we only started with 10-- so we are much better off than we were. While a true BoB is lacking the He-111 or early Stuka, you can still achieve an accurate campaign through use of the Me-109's and 110's, the Do-17, and the Ju-88.....and use the modified bomb loadout for the Ju-87G. Past that-- you'll need to start modeling if you want a certain plane to fly or be patient for someone to do it!! It's been over a year and i am still patiently waiting for my Dauntless....it sure doesn't help tough to piss off the modeler....give them time and space and they'll work miracles! ------------------ Brought to you by the campaign for a better Dauntless! Jeeves =FC= IP: Logged
Flash Gordon Pilot	posted 02-14- 11:46 AM quote: Originally posted by NN Tym: ...But "I" regret that those add-ons don't push SDOE toward historicity... Okay, mon vieux, let's look at things in perspective. When SDOE first came out, there were ten planes: Spit V, Tiffy, Mosquito, Lanc for the Brits, Pony, Lightning and B-17G for the Yanks and FW190A, Me262 and JU88 for the Germans - anyway, fun to fly but hardly a historical plane set - couldn't do much in the way of historical missions. It stands to reason that EACH and EVERY plane that's been created by the community since the inception of SDOE has ADDED to the historicity of the game, albeit in little baby steps. We now have every flavour of Bf109 that we might want. We have the Hurricane and the early and later Spits. We've got the Jug, both razorback and bubbletop. Granted, the plane set is far from "complete" but when you compare it to other games, it's pretty darn good. Plus, these planes take a LONG time to model. I admit, I don't know what I'm talking about - I fiddled around with OPS, got a big headache, lay down, had a good cry then took a siesta. But seeing as how detailed these planes are and how much testing is involved before they're unleashed on the community, it's logical that the plane set will grow, albeit slowly. As for Russian Front scenarios - when this game first game out, Russian Front scenarios were an impossibility. Now we've got a Yak 3, an I-16, a Pe-2 and I think somebody was even working on a Po-2 a while ago! Okay, it's still far from complete but it's going from O to something is damn impressive. Et souviens-toi, mon gars - il faut donner pour recevoir ;-). Je veux dire que si tu veux vraiment un Yak 9, un La-5, etc., peut-etre tu peux les construire pour le communaute, non? Flash IP: Logged
NN Tym Cadet	posted 02-14- 12:23 PM Well, it seems that I opened up a can of worms... I shall make my point clearer then. So the community is working hard on improving SDOE. I appreciate that as much as anyone else. The task is overbearing to get it to the taste of everyone, I am well aware of it. BUT, can someone point me toward a good historical series of missions that link into an immersive (for an History buff such as me) campaign ? BUT, can someone point me toward a series of balanced, yet imaginative, missions that would insure a fun play some squadrons, especially a Normandie-Niemen one... I am mistaken or the "mission" aspect of the game was a little left over by the community ? Now the next question could be why ? I think the plane set, even improved, is to blame. But laying the blame on the people that make the planes would be stupid. Those people work on their spare time, it's no wonder they concentrate their efforts on their beloved plane... My only concern is that very few people seem to think that the missions and campaigns are important matter... And I must add that thinking in terms of missions and campaign has a dramatic impact on the way the plane set would be developped. I can understand that this may induce too much work for the community. But there is definitively a problem there... Sorry for saying it aloud. I tend to believe that this is the "nature of the beast". A realistic campaign setting seems to be just too much work with SDOE. ------------------ NN Tym nn_tym@noos.fr Normandie-Niemen IP: Logged
Sailor Pilot	posted 02-14- 12:46 PM Ok, this is somewhat turning into a "franco-fran�aise" dispute, so I might as well join also. NN Tym, I've played this game since it first came out, and also i've not done anything myself (too difficult + not enough time), I've enjoyed all the improvements brought to us by all the plane modellers, FM and DM guys, and everyone here. All in all, it is now a much better and comprehensive game than it used to be, and comes second to none as far as FM, DM, number and variety of planes is concerned (you'll see what I mean when Pachy releases his great Dewoitine520). So if I may dare to give one friendly advice, when you see a part of the game that can be improved, ask yourself how you can improve it, and you'll always find tons of help here. Some people have even written very good tutorials about Openplane et al. And if (like myself) you cannot, or don't have time to, build or tweak planes and objects, there are some interesting projects out here that can use some help anyway. I'm sure if you write a tutorial about ribbons many of us will use it. I stop the argument, I have an interesting project to show you, I'll send you an e-mail 2nite. Amicalement Sailor http://mapage.noos.fr/fmailhos/missions/ http://mapage.noos.fr/fmailhos/screenshots/ ------------------ IP: Logged
Jeeves Pilot	posted 02-14- 02:34 PM If you go to the Hangar or to simfiles.com, you will see sets of missions.....there are many done in a campaign type-style. I am trying to make sure new planes have original training missions--- and they usually either have missions done by their modelers or ask me or someone else and we do them for them. I have 4 campaigns: 1. an Africa campaign based on Operation Torch (while the Kittyhawk, and any Italian planes are missing, I have at least the Hurricane and Spits, Lightnings, 109's, 88's)...I haven't updated it in a while, but I could easily add in some 110's and maybe some other planes from that time. 2. Three Dover campaigns-- Part 1-- from Battle for France to a simulation of the Dunkirk evacuation (and will sub in French planes as they are done)....Part 2 covers the early to later stages of the BoB (without He-111 and a select few others)...Part 3-- from around D-Day to close to the Bulge... 3. A Rhineland campaign based on the Pe-2....and this one is somewhat dynamic in nature... semmern is also a great mission maker-- check out his campaign on the BoB... Eyes has released some great ones as well....as has hip63....and someone a while back did an excellent B-17 campaign with downloadable mission briefs and maps. So OK-- the shipped game was lacking in missions, but you can't say that there are no quality missions out there. Just look around....or I can send you any of these aboove as I have most of them ------------------ Brought to you by the campaign for a better Dauntless! Jeeves =FC= IP: Logged
Arrowbase Pilot	posted 02-14- 03:04 PM lol at Flash. Gosh!!! Quel boucan ! What a hubbub in french language. I can't believe that we were so present by number! It's a good surprise. A good way to re-build the FAFL... "Nous part�mes 500 et par un prompt renfort..." Joke apart, yes there are more planes than missions able to host them, but to fly historically a missions you need the planes which were involved in, and if they do not exist yet in the game, they must be built, right? I'm just a poor painter, hoping that my paintings will be used by someonelse in a "historical" mission. Sometimes it happens, sometimes not. That is the magie of communities such this one, someone says "hey fellows, look at what I've made this night" and someone answers "hey, damn it, I can't wait to fly her". This is the most heard sentence here ;^) Ther is a chance to read a few days later: "Man, I set 10 missions to fly her against this or that" and so on... If you want to live an historic campaign, please, set it, I'm sure you have all the aces in hand. And WE will ALL happy to get it after a hardwork on our planes, skins, ground objects, ships... Well, my 2 Euros... :^) Bonne chance et bon vol Arrowbase IP: Logged
Arrowbase Pilot	posted 02-14- 03:13 PM NNTym, speaking to the specialist of GC3 NN, still no idea about the skin below? I would hate to have made a mistake... [QUOTE] I made a painting there is a little while of a P47 which I supposed from the NN (but not sure at all), could you say more about it? Click the image below to download the skin. QUOTE] ------------------ Bonne chance et bon vol ! Arrowbase http://www.shemzone.com IP: Logged
Jerry Pilot	posted 02-14- 03:24 PM If 100% historical accuracy is needed for this to be an enjoyable sim for NNT then it will never be enjoyable for him. Even with all the planes ever used in WWII, the terrains prevent it from being 100% accurate. They are only approximations of actual geography, but so what! (My god, there are only 2 great pyramids instead of 3, delete this piece of crap ) They are only 40miles X 40miles in size, not the 3,000 miles plus of the European campaign (damn, I don't get to sit in my bomber for 4 hours before reaching the target ). OK, so a little imagination is needed for total immursion. Is that too much to ask? I mean, come on. This is not a holodeck from Star Trek. IP: Logged
NN Tym Cadet	posted 02-14- 03:48 PM quote: Originally posted by Arrowbase: NNTym, speaking to the specialist of GC3 NN, still no idea about the skin below? I would hate to have made a mistake... [QUOTE] I made a painting there is a little while of a P47 which I supposed from the NN (but not sure at all), could you say more about it? Click the image below to download the skin. QUOTE] The NN flew exclusively Yaks during the war. In fact, that's not entirely true... Cmt Tulasne and Cpt Littolff flew Hurricanes, Airacobra, P40 and other planes to choose the NN plane. They also trained a little in Lebanon with a D520 before leaving for Russia. They also had some plane for transport and other purpose U2 and Yak6... After the war, the yaks were quickly wearing out. They were replaced with FW190 (french-build) ! Then with Mosquitoes, P63 KingCobra and maybe P47, I am not sure... I doubt that your P47 was a NN one especially with those landing stripes... ------------------ NN Tym nn_tym@noos.fr Normandie-Niemen IP: Logged

All times are CT (US)	next newest topic \| next oldest topic
Administrative Options: Close Topic \| Archive/Move \| Delete Topic
	Hop to:

Contact Us | Fighter Squadron Information Center