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Author
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Topic: We need to fix the defensive guns!
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Snake
Pilot
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posted 02-11- 01:38 PM
   
I attacked a JU-88 today and it opened fire at 3000 feet. AND it hit me very hard. If I had been flying straight and level it would have been stuck on my. As it was I lasted for about 20 seconds by jinking moderately.This I think is totally unrealistic. We all knoe the AI has excellent aim and thats ok for fighters but not for bombers. Its crazy being fired at by one lousy MG and being totally destroyed before you can get close. And even if you do in Spit 1a it takes a long time to shoot down the Ju-88. What do you think? Reduce range or change weapon effectiveness? Snake IP: Logged |
Commando
Pilot
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posted 02-11- 01:48 PM
With the online damage bug it means if we derate the bomber defensive weapons the bombers will get no kills not that they get many anyway, hopefully that wont be a problem much longer  . Are you using(in hushed whisper) spoonmans loadouts offline, the Ju88 mg was uprated in the loadout files so offline they are too fierce.IP: Logged |
ArgonV
Pilot
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posted 02-11- 01:54 PM
In the mission editor, set the AI to "stupid idiots" (The joke of this is, they already are stupid...) IP: Logged |
Sunray
Pilot
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posted 02-11- 01:57 PM
According to that BoB book, German bomber gunners were quite good. Despite only having one MG at each nonpowered turret station. So maybe the game guns are actually accurately portrayed.IP: Logged |
Snake
Pilot
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posted 02-11- 01:58 PM
Nope I was using SDOE Online Standard Version 3. ie no spoons loadout.IP: Logged |
Nat
Pilot
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posted 02-11- 02:47 PM
an easy answer could be to add a small "jitter" to the gun to remove the accuracy, it's simple enough to do and I had though of adding it, the thing that stopped me is the fact that we aint so good in the guns as the AI, so make it harder for the AI and we aint gonna hit shit lolIP: Logged |
Snake
Pilot
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posted 02-11- 04:18 PM
That sounds like the best way to do it Nat. Could you devise a way so that different loadouts would carry the jitter? ie pick Guns for humans and GunsAI for AI when making missions.Snake IP: Logged |
Rendsburger
Pilot
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posted 02-11- 04:46 PM
Snake,
go to the training area! LOL Rendsburger IP: Logged |
Jerry
Pilot
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posted 02-11- 05:08 PM
This has been a complaint of mine for offline flying for sometime. 50cal guns should NOT be that accurate or deadly from 3000 feet. The quick fix I found is to turn down the skill level in the Options screen to mid-way. It reduces the accuracy of the gunners but unfortunately reduces the pilot's skill also, so kills are too easy sometimes. IP: Logged |
Nat
Pilot
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posted 02-11- 05:53 PM
the fix I'm talking about is a rotating dof set at an angle with a very fast runtime, making the tip of the barrel move in a very small very fast circle so that it's very hard to fire straight, this affects AI aswell, and thinking about it, it could be done through loadouts actually, didn't think it could at first, but sure as hell it could, just copy and past the gun position into the same place, make the dof additaion and save it with the guns changed, the guns aren't active unless defined in the loadout, so it would be easy to have a larger loadout, basicly doubled in size one listed as AI and one not. I'll see about adding it when I get a bit of time to sort it out.. don't let me forget lolIP: Logged |
Snake
Pilot
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posted 02-11- 06:35 PM
Nat your idea sounds like it is the best way.Rendsburger do you mean go back and learn how to do it? If so I think you'll agree in a Spit1a the only way to knock out the Ju-88 is to fire at least a 5 second burst from all guns into one wing. The only way to do this is from directly astern. Snake IP: Logged |
Rendsburger
Pilot
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posted 02-11- 06:37 PM
Snake, yes ,but that was a joke. :-)I think, if anybody reduce the gunrange it will be easier to attack the bomber. Rendsburger IP: Logged |
Jerry
Pilot
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posted 02-11- 06:50 PM
Nat, if you change the characteristic of the guns wouldn't that also make it impossible for "human" air gunners to shoot down EA? I don't find the guns themselves overly deadly when I'm firing them, only when the AI is. Hell, I can barely see an EA at 3000 feet, let alone hit it.  IP: Logged |
Nat
Pilot
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posted 02-11- 08:15 PM
Jerry, thats the point I addressed in the second post above, it would be a simple thing to define a complete set of loadouts marked as AI, these would call up a set of guns that had been altered by adding the dof making the gun bounce and therefore harder for the AI to wipe you out, but on the otherside the exact same loadout can be added for Human, where the dof isn't added, all you need to do is as I said above, copy a gun position and paste it back into the same place, so now it's maybe gun5, you add the dof to it.. now unless you add it to the loadout it wont appear right, so what you do is add a loadout that instead of listing the unchanged guns, lists the ones you edited, and the loadout is renamed from "Heavy Bombing" to "AI-Heavy Bombing"
It's simple loadout managment.IP: Logged |
Flash Gordon
Pilot
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posted 02-12- 04:06 AM
I'm glad this is being addressed - this was originally why I asked if it were possible to kill the gunners - it was really difficult to shoot down bombers w/o getting badly shot up because the gunners were so accurate - but I figured things would be "balanced" by making it possible to kill the rear gunner on the first pass then making a second to actually shoot down the bomber.IP: Logged |
Sailor
Pilot
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posted 02-12- 06:57 AM
Great Idea to fix this problem !
Some time ago I ran A LOT of missions with 4 heavy bombers ag 4 fighters (tried nearly every combinations) just to find out that the only way for fighters to win (i.e getting more kills than losses) was when I used Me262 ! (tks to the 4 * 30 mm). Otherwise the stupi AI fighters just align behind the bombers and get blown off the sky one by one . To the point that in BoB missions it's easier to go for the escort than for the bombers !
Cheers
Sailor------------------
 IP: Logged |
Starfire
Pilot
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posted 02-12- 07:06 PM
ok Maybe I do nto know about bombers or it is just my flying. I can shoot down and have shot down more bombers then I have Fighters.
Ju-88 Vs P-51's and P-38. I can usually shoot down three before I am out.
Why not use the killable pilot and make it for the gunners. or does it work like that already.
I know we lost alot of B-17's to German fighters when they did not have escort but I do not know the other way around. Axis Bombers to Allied fighters.
Hmm guess i got to pay attention more. ------------------
Wait I do not know how to fly this plane.... oh geezz... SimGazette Team Memeber. IP: Logged |
Nat
Pilot
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posted 02-12- 11:51 PM
well, it might have been a good idea, but I've not gotten it to work yet, it seems a simple thing, but then DOFs never were my specialty and time constrains cause me to rush it I think, maybe one of the guys will have a little more time to have a tinker with the idea and get it working, if not, well, I'll get it done sometime, but no promises..~Nat~ IP: Logged |
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