posted 02-06- 05:40 PM               

this time I will include a picture with text instead of the ulr like I did last time.

posted 02-06- 06:04 PM               

Currently in SDOE the damaged AI is wrong. In CFS2, which I think has DM to be proud of, the pilots bail out if their a/c starts smoking. In SDOE pilots never bail out to smoke. We have all flown and finished games with smoke coming from our wings (Spitfire seems a bit susceptible to this)

Also Sunray the ammo might have hit the pilot. No skull can prevent the entry of a .303 no matter what the angle is

posted 02-06- 06:29 PM               

Guys, this subject has been discussed at least 100 times last month. This is getting ridiculous. As usual ,the conclusion will be "1943 US planes had better weapons than 1939 British planes".

Whoa. How surprising.

posted 02-06- 08:54 PM               

Now, as you all know Tailgunner and I have the most advanced DM you have never seen

The pure fact of the matter is that the majority of aircraft were downed by: Strutural damage
Wing surface Damage
Engine Damage
Pilot injury
(in no particular order)

Not this pretty looking massive explosion.

This is the reason we've made the DM so advanced, we basicaly got tierd of seeing wings blown off my small arms fire, or wopping great explosions, you know, the usual SDOE stuff.

OK, fact is you guys haven't got our DM, but thats not really the point, the point being made is that bullets didn't have the same effect as Tac Nukes when they hit an aircraft.

Snake has the point exactly right though, but snake, the Spitfire in SDOE can also be easily flown and landed (if you get bored of fighting) with the whole of an outer wing missing

Now OK, it's great to hear the point which most of us know already, that damage effects currently aren't realistic, but then, with the DM most of you are using what do you expect, you don't have ANY critical parts modeled realisticaly, and hell, the only parts you have that are critical are the engine and fuel tanks, and on some of the aircraft shooting up the engine is like taking on a bunker with an ice pick!

The good side is ofcourse that Condor has added his coded DM to about every SDOE aircraft meaning it's now worth shooting at it. But the point is, without a realistic overall DM then there's no point in saying our guns are to powerful, because we have to shoot down the enemy someway or other

So I guess until the DM gets advanced we'll all make do with .303, 20mm, 30cal HESH (High Explosive Squash Head) rounds blowing the crap out of aircraft, there's currently no good solution other than us laying out the massive and complete rebuild that needs to be done to every aircraft to make things realistic.

posted 02-06- 09:05 PM               

The facts are that the 30 cal was effective early in the war (BoB), especially the Hurricane which carried 8 guns and was a very stable gun platform. If it wasn't we would all be speaking German today.

The P-51 carried 6 50 cal and no cannon and was considered the best fighter of the war. For you to say that "the American .50 cal really isn't very destructive against [more]modern ww2 fighters" ignores the results.

Snakes post says it best...most areas of the plane weere not armoured and were vulnerable even to your underpowered .50 cals.

Bombers are another thing. The Germans relied heavily on cannon to shoot down bombers. The US didn't have to go up against bombers so stayed with the .50 cal because that was all that was needed to bring down a fighter.

posted 02-06- 11:31 PM               

50 cal ball ammo isnt very effective against heavily armored german planes. ever see all the armor the put on a Fw-190A8? they have 5mm armor plane on the side of the cockpit and 6-8mm covers the entire engine. 50 cal ball ammo isnt very effective when you compare it to the API or other type of explosive ammo. I am just saying even the americans realized how ineffective the .50 was against modern ww2 planes. this again would come back to haunt them in the korean war and the F-86 was armed with 4 20mm.

maybe it is an online game bug? I tried playing sdoe several times and gave it many chances, but I gave up even some guys and planes are almost impossible to shoot down even with 20mm ammo.

I do not know if your having problems like this or what. sdoe is a very strange game that I dislike strongly. I deleted it off my p/c today. I had problems with my a/c climbing much more slowly than other peoples, even when using the same plane. I could only match them when I turned my resolution to 384X512.

but when you look at those ww 2 film clips notice when the wings blow off german planes under american .50 cal you see all kinds of tiny explosions just before it happens. this is because they are using explosive type ammo which is more effective than ball type ammo.

posted 02-07- 12:13 PM               

Seems to me that you have more problems than just 303's Bolillo!

The whole issue has been covered, and there is an alternative set of loadouts for those who think the guns are a little soppy. A lot of work is being done on DM to help out, and the pilots can now be made killable.

In the light of all that, I think most of the 303 debate issues have been covered. It's a shame Bolillo bailed....

Sounds like the planes/game isn't responsible for the slow climbing either. Problems with your connection/setup could also be a factor. I'm no expert....

posted 02-07- 12:23 PM               

The SINGLE .50 cal mounted on the M-60 tank can destroy an M-113 APC, which is, oh, 10 times more "robust" than even a P-47.

As for Korea, I don't believe ANY 20-mm armed F-86s even took part, unless a few Canadian squadrons saw service. I'd bet 99.99% of the F-86s (and ALL of the F-80s, F-84s, F-51s, and F4Us) that downed MiGs were "pure" .50-cal shooters. Which somehow managed to rack up a 10-to-1 kill ratio or whatever it was

In short: .50-cal "inadequate" in air combat? BZZZZZZT! Wrong answer!

As for the .303 and other "rifle caliber" bullets, well, SOMETHING was shooting down all those Me-110s and He-111s and Wildcats and P-39s and P-40s and Buffaloes...

Airplanes are fragile. The key is to model that fragility in a "balanced" way so that the advantages and disadvantages of each weapon and aircraft are represented. Obviously, if your system is based on "the wing falls off after 50 hits," the ONLY factor will be "gun strength" and a "little gun" may run out of ammo WELL before achieving the 50 hits. But if you put a fuel tank in that only takes FIVE hits to set on fire, well, NOW you've got something worthy of the name "damage model" and that .303 doesn't look quite so puny...

posted 02-07- 01:05 PM               

But things are happening, as we all have read, that may be able to narrow the gap. Let's do our best to support all those who are trying; it is after all, we who will benefit.

------------------
nealg=FC=

posted 02-07- 02:38 PM               

this gun bug thing. I have never experienced it at other games all the time. I noticed at eaw and janes ww2 that some guys can blow your plane apart before you even hear his bullets hitting. I have noticed this with my guns, sometimes I can knock the engine and both wings off of a P-47 with a P-38 at janes with 1 quick squirt, while other times I cannot seem to damage his plane. same goes for eaw; I had people complain that they hear one or two pops and their engine blows up or starts smoking. I do not know what causes this out side of the generic term "lag".

everytime I played this game online I always got shot down. I could never climb up to catch people even in the same plane. when I was lucky enough to shoot at somebody all I ever did was hit them with no apparent damage done. I was using a large resolution of 1068x7something or the next one larger, when I switched to 384x512 I could get atleast 1 kill per game and usually shoot up another, sometimes even shoot another one down. everything just ran much better, but with that resolution you had to be very very close cause I could not see a thing.