posted 02-04- 12:29 AM               

I barly ever get the urge to play online, so what happens when I do? Somedays we are using spoons loadouts and somedays we arn't.

So right now lets decide.

What is it going to be are we going to use them or not?

100% decision here, everyone or no one.

posted 02-04- 01:06 AM            

For crying out loud Spanky, cool off just a few dozen degrees, ok? Load spoons' into your a/c folder, and if they're not using it online alt-tab and rename your folder. 5 seconds later you're set.

Sheesh.

Werner

posted 02-04- 01:06 AM            

The planepack is a unified collection of all planes files enhancement made using openplane and is meant to be a way of distributing all this files easily to stop online mismatches.

Spoonmans Machine gun loadouts make it possible to shoot down a plane with .303 guns
and some ground objects. This was not possible before online. And is needed to conpensate for a flaw somewhere in the licenced game engine.

The loadout is based on solid live testing by 2 independant people that came to the same figures.

The loadouts are not offline compatible.

Another solution would be available for offline players that wish to continue using the plane pack or switch between the two with easy of use in mind

The online pilots , tho few, but meet very regulary , some everyday for for almost 2 years, want to see these Loadout enhancement included in the Next Online Standard Planepack Patch v6.1 (I think this version number)

It will upset some people unfortunatly that would want it exactly the same as it is now.
ie. no change.

Others will surely ad pros and cons to this list.

-------------------------------------

My Personal view

I would like them included please, Not for me as I know how to install them quick and remove them ........

... but for any new pilots that want to join us online for a game and then they can be playing without any mismatches with the rest of us regular Online Pilots as quick and as trouble free as possible.

They make the game for realistic, and is a good fix to compensate for this SDOE online problem.

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www.Luftwaffe.net

posted 02-04- 01:11 AM               

Problem solved!

posted 02-04- 01:13 AM               

What good is the online standard if it isn't what everyone uses online?

What if I don't want to rename the folders every time i join a game?

I'm already thinking i'm done with this game, since all i do is fly it online so offline doesn't matter to me.

posted 02-04- 01:17 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pye:
The loadouts are not offline compatible.

---

To clarify, offline is a joke because the guns have been beefed up (based on real data) to compensate for packet loss, which doesn't occur offline.

If you fly 100% offline, don't get the loadouts. If you fly 100% online, get the loadouts. If you're someplace in between, Himdog has devised a good way to handle this - make a duplicate copy of your aircraft folder one with spoons' and one without. Whichever one you are planning on using, name 'Aircraft', the other something else, just not 'Aircraft'. The advantage this has over my advice above is that you can have custom skins whether you're online or not.

WM

posted 02-04- 01:24 AM            

Why don't you email spin, Spanky?

Werner

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posted 02-04- 01:33 AM            

I have done it before, as has most of JG3, 26AC and =FC=.

Werner

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posted 02-04- 01:40 AM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by ArgonV:
My opinion?

Simple: Zip up all the origonal loadouts (With folder attributes of course) and call it "offline loadouts". Include Spoons loadouts in the plane pack, and put both up for download side by side.

Problem solved!

---

Why would the above be such a hard thing to do????????

posted 02-04- 01:42 AM               

It's the ONLINE STANDARD. Last I heard it was only pp6.

If people want to add spoons loadouts, and condors engine damage then do it.

BUT MAKE IT STANDARD.

posted 02-04- 01:47 AM            

You got it now? Or should I repeat it r-e-a-l s-l-o-w t-o-o.

Werner

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posted 02-04- 01:57 AM               

What does matter is the next time I goto play I want to be ready.

It wasn't a 5 second fix either, I don't have spoons loadouts, So i would have to find them and DL them first then install them.

PLUS the name of the game was pp6, not pp6+spoons.

If i had seen that i would have gone and installed them and tried next time the players where in lobby.

WHO doesn't use pp6 now? why do you need that in the heading but no metion of spoons?

posted 02-04- 01:57 AM            

We run into the same thing ourselves, just last night JG3 all turned off spoons so we could fly with the non-aligned. 5 seconds, NO BIG DEAL. But what difference does it make anyways

quote:

---

Originally posted by Spanky the Mad Dog:

I'm already thinking i'm done with this game, since all i do is fly it online so offline doesn't matter to me.

---

I'll believe it when I see it, I just think we're making a mountain out of a molehill here. Until Argon contacts spin regarding this, or spin sees this, and releases a PP update that includes spoon's loadouts, you can make life real easy for yourself. Or not. Man I love a free country.

Werner

posted 02-04- 01:59 AM               

I'm mostly trying to make people aware of a problem.

posted 02-04- 02:01 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by ArgonV:
Well then I could zip up all the standard loadouts right [b]now with folder attributes and send them to spanky. That way, when he has to go back to standard loadouts, all he need to do is unzip them into the Media directory. I assume Spoons loadouts are already ziped up with folder attributes? [/B]

---

Or he could download spoons (see next post) and turn it on/off as described ad infinitum above. To Unzip or to rename, I guess it's spanky's choice. At least when he wants to turn spoons back on, he doesn't have to reinstall them by renaming in the first place.

WM

posted 02-04- 02:05 AM               

How many times have you seen my online in the last month? Maybe 2 times?

This is just another reason to not even bother.

Belive me there isn't much making me want to play, anything that keeps me from firing up SDOE and getting some flight time is just another reason not to bother.

This has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE DAMN PP. It simple everyone start using it if its so cool. And update any pages that state the online standard. HAHA like that will ever happen.

posted 02-04- 02:05 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Spanky the Mad Dog:

Actually werner, Its not right now that matters, I have already givin up on playing tonight. I tried, it wasn't happening so I left.

---

Will you want to fly online again before this can get implemented by the PP crew? (rhetorical question) We both know these things take time. If the answer is no, fair enough, but recognize at least that what I was suggesting to you was a way to deal with the problem now if that was what you wanted. Can't win for losing it seems.

quote:

---

What does matter is the next time I goto play I want to be ready.

It wasn't a 5 second fix either, I don't have spoons loadouts, So i would have to find them and DL them first then install them.

---

Ok, 10 seconds. "Uncle"

quote:

---

PLUS the name of the game was pp6, not pp6+spoons.

If i had seen that i would have gone and installed them and tried next time the players where in lobby.

---

Not my fault, chide the host. Would you have though? Or grumbled about people not using online standard anymore... hmm

quote:

---

WHO doesn't use pp6 now? why do you need that in the heading but no metion of spoons?

All i really want is this sorted out before i try to play again, I have no idea when that will be since I seem to want to fly at any time except when everyone else is online.

---

Can't help you there man, sorry.

Werner

posted 02-04- 02:07 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Spanky the Mad Dog:

Don't worry about it argon, i could do that myself. If ya want to help someone else by making a pack let that though, go right ahead.

I'm mostly trying to make people aware of a problem.

---

Point made. I was trying to help you out up top if you were planning on going back online, but of course I didn't know you weren't. I would have stopped posting, but since it wasn't clear
"What the heck are you talking about? Why would you have to do that?" I thought I would elaborate, since I'd hate for people to think I get my kicks out of misleading people.

Werner

------------------
Visit Abbeville Field Today!

posted 02-04- 02:28 AM               

All I want is the comunity to make a decision if we will use spoons loadouts online.

I would vote yes, cause they sound like they work well.

So my vote is yes?

How do the rest of you feel?

And if we choose yes lets do it and stick with it.

posted 02-04- 02:29 AM               

So who wants this?

BTW I vote yes, but I want the option of having the standard loadouts for off-line use.

posted 02-04- 02:37 AM            

Make that three for the 'yes' column. Spanky - there's not a whole lot worse than pumping hundreds of MG rounds into a spitfire, only to have a fraction register as hits because of packet loss. At least this way dogfights are realistic, planes actually can die due to MGs alone (granted it takes longer than cannon) instead of having your number 1 switch good for tracers only.

We really need spin in on this, while we've gone through the whole process between us three in under two hours (LMAO) this needs rubber stamping, and soon as Spanky has illustrated.

Werner

posted 02-04- 05:31 AM               

For online everyday play the Online Standard should be used or it makes a nonsense of the OS.

In the JG3/=FC=/26AC war we use Spoons loadouts by choice. This is a private war between squads and the loadouts are agreed beforehand by the squads.

For the next planepack patch (and hence new Online Standard) I would like the loadouts included as standard.

posted 02-04- 08:49 AM               

BUT I would not like to see them included in the Plane Pack (as wierd as that might sound), one of the biggest reasons for this is that the great majority of people that download the plane pack do it to keep upto date with the best there is to offer right now rather than making loads of seperate downloads and beta1/2/3 downloads etc, I'm sure you know what I mean. So adding the loadouts to the plane pack will just make a mockery of the aircraft to the large majority of people that get the plane pack. There are relatively very few people that fly online these days, infact ever really, so I fully agree that the loadouts should be online standard, but that they should be either an optional download, with notes on how to switch between standard and online loadouts, or an installation option in the same way you have a choice of cockpits with some aircraft.

It "may" be easier to do the reverse, and have the original loadouts as a second download rather than the new ones, but on strength of numbers we should have spoons loadouts seperate.

"YES" to them being online standard

posted 02-04- 10:14 AM            

Nat,
Your point of view is saying:-
I don't want to change , cause we (and there are more of us), have got used to the ONLINE standard Planepack being how we need it.

There are many more online flying now than your figure of 20,that you posted in another thread,

And you also know why it's not in the hundreds, it's because ONLINE has to be as simple as possible and including loudouts into the PlanePack is needed, noting that they have been fully tested for about 2 months.(correct me if I'm wrong)

You flew ONLINE with just the planepack when you first joined the JV44,,pre-JG3 (I add)
don't tell me back then you would not have been happy at trying to get online flying and having not another file to download!

****edited to add this ***
Nat-I just read your other thread agreeing we have the differences with offline and online, And your suggestion of adding a batchfile, or something before sdoe loads, In the same way that I change the 20 screen loaders, by running a batch file is a good one but please support the loadouts actually being shipped within the planepack as standard*****

I'm ready,willing and able, to test and help arrange the ONLINE testing of:-

A)Spins Alpha Patch 6.1
including Condors engine damage

B)**separate from the loadouts
and also separate
**The killable pilot
so they can be evaluated separately
and together! after all what if we find a grave problem,, this deabate would be for nothing.

Never in the field of SDOE conflict was so much been owed by so many to so "Few"
,Online and Offline

------------------
www.Luftwaffe.net

"Fly with the Best, ONLINE SDOE!"

[This message has been edited by Pye (edited 02-04-2001).]

posted 02-04- 12:52 PM               

I like to set it up one way and leave it, once I load it up i'm not joining any games that arn't using it.

Can I at least expect people to put:

posted 02-04- 01:27 PM               

1)Create a folder. Call it "offline." In this folder, make an "aircraft" folder. In that folder, make a folder for each airplane you have. In each airplane folder, put a copy of its current loadout.ppf.

2)Create another folder. Call it "online." In this folder, do the same thing, but place the "Spoonout" loadout.ppf into each airplane folder. Now you have two "safe" folders with all the loadout.ppfs for offline and online play.

To play online, simply copy the contents of the "online" folder to the existing "aircraft" folder. It will overwrite all your existing loadouts in about 5 seconds. To switch back, copy the contents of the "offline" folder to the existing "aircraft" folder. It will put everything back the way it was. Could probably even write a batchfile to do it with one click.

Put THAT into the planepack, don't change ANY existing loadouts, quit arguing, and start flyin already!

posted 02-04- 02:03 PM            

First: Go vote on Spoon's loadouts (in over a week 5 people have submitted a vote (80% in favour of Spoon's loadout but that's not quite a representative sample) So go now.

Loadout poll CAST YOUR VOTE!!!

Oh if you've voted before, vote again - I've added a new idea. This one will take a bit of work but I'm willing to do this.

The idea is this: Merge Spoon's loadouts with current offline and change online mission loadouts as needed. This way there is only one set of loadouts. PERIOD. No changes needed. All that people will have to do is edit the online mission to the appropriate online loadout. I know there's a bit of work required, but I think this is probably the best solution long-term.

So go and vote on what you think is best. If I don't get a hundred votes I'll be disappointed - I'm asking for input and not getting it. It kind of makes me want to become a benevolent dictator - you guys get what I think is best like it or not. (maybe not).

Spanky,

The issues that are concerning you are being addressed. Unfortunately, it's impossible for me to put together the pack overnight. I could dump the updates into something now and send it out and say it's standard but there are a bunch of reasons why that won't work. As I'm beginning to assemble the changes, there are additional items that need to be fixed and others want to submit other input. To make it work I requested developer input on a deadline for submissions and from the feedback received, 2 weeks was requested, so next Friday is the deadline, following that I will put up the beta and test for an additional 2 weeks, incorporate changes, create any necessary installers (which I will need to recruit DoGma's help for again) and release to the community, following that it will become standard as agreed to by all of the wonderful people who play this game.

It frustrates me as well when Spoon's loadouts are used online, with the exception of the Squad wars (where people have chosen to run with them) they aren't standard yet. However the more they are tested the more comfortable people will be that they have the desired effect. I current have three Aircraft folders that I switch in and out 1. pp6.1 trial files, 2. Spoon's loadouts 3. Spoon's loadouts with Condor's dm. When I play online all are named something other than aircraft. The only problem with this is that I'd need yet another separate folder for all of the awesome skins out there. This is an interim solution until a new standard is released. I've been doing this since the first mods appeared for this game.

Spanky, thanks for continuing to drive SDOE in a positive direction, your frustration is I'm sure shared by others.

Spin

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Spin

Visit Spin's Planepack Site to learn more about planepack V6.0 and ongoing development of the planepack

posted 02-04- 02:31 PM               

This was a problem in the past numerous times. It is a simple matter of renaming your game as host to say Standard + Spoons, or something similar - that way, if you enter, it is just to find out what Spoons IS, and if you don't have it, exit gracefully to either get them or await a standard game. The Squad War missions are named Mission (#), so pilots in lobby know it is a official game requiring the loads.

As with many things, it is right now a choice ( Spin, I have voted, BTW ), just as is anything not currently in the Plane Pack. If it involves use of a .sm or .ppf file, it will cause mismatches. So, it isn't unreasonable to rename your host game to fit the situation, just as those testing new planes, etc., have been doing. So, you can pop in...you never know, you might have the files needed and just need to switch folders, but at least you don't experience the frustration of having to leave because someone is using what you do not have.

For pilots new to Online SDOE, this can also be very confusing, which is why we with the squads involved try to stress that this is not the standard, but special circumstances.

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nealg=FC=

posted 02-04- 07:51 PM               

That being said, I do think we need them for online play. Any aircraft with small MG's (including all fighters and bombers) are modifed in my loadout. Not just the Spit's and the Hurricanes, but the BF-109's, Lancasters, Mosquitoes, Ju-88's etc.

It's a well rounded patch I think enhances online play, and makes off-line play even more enjoyable.

Has anyone here used my Flak fix? How about my Ship fix?

posted 02-04- 08:23 PM               

Why can't you have your "Squad Wars" with non-PlanePak loadouts on a separate server and leave Cali12(?) to people like Spanky who want to fly with the official on line standard?

That way you avoid getting into the wrong lobby/mission and getting booted out.

posted 02-04- 08:49 PM               

And the same non-rule could be applied with reverse spin; if you go to calif 12 and find the squad wars in progress, why couldn't you go to another server? See, they are all ( those that remain, anyway ) public. Calif 12 has usually provided the most stable usage, also, though it sometimes changes. So, naming the host game is the most logical, and IMO, sensible solution. Doesn't always happen, though.

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nealg=FC=

posted 02-04- 09:55 PM               

I have used the flak fix-- much more to my liking-- now the bombers have a fighting chance! Thanks for your work....going to vote, spin!

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posted 02-04- 11:03 PM               

There was one 7 person game going on and I bowed out after I found I wansn't using the same loadouts as them.

It just bugged me that people wern't using the online standard and weren't displaying that they were using spoons loadouts in the title of the game.

posted 02-04- 11:57 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Spanky the Mad Dog:
If i had seen that i would have gone and installed them and tried next time the players where in lobby.

---

Sorry Spanky, that one was just too easy.

LOL

Werner

posted 02-05- 12:40 AM               

303_Online
303_Bombs_Online

etc that mirror the original loadouts except with the greater hitting power. That way it becomes the choice of the mission designer, regardless of if its online or offline, and no one would have a mismatch, assuming they had the PP of course.

All that would have to happen then is that online mission hosters would just have to indicate which loadout was in use, so people who don't like one or the other can opt out.

posted 02-05- 12:52 AM            

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Spin