posted 01-08- 12:47 PM               

Today, I have been catching up with all the new threads on the FSIC from over the weekend and damn, MH has quit(but is thank god, still with us), plane builders/modifiers are taking heat again(though mostly from those who don't really understand what it really takes to work on any of these planes - and therefore their criticisms should be taken with a grain of salt).

My engine damage pack is now complete for all fighter aircraft in sdoe which are part of plane pack 6.0. Does it have problems people will want corrected, probably. The readme included with the pack requests all input you can give me and includes more detail on how the engine damage works. I hope requests for corrections would be asked in a positive tone vs the negative nit picking as in the recent past threads. Will I make those changes? Absolutely and also, very quickly. Changes are very easy to make now and I could easily support a monthly update if necessary and also when generally requested by the community. All damage effects are up for modifications from how long a smoke trail lasts, to how big it is, to how dense it is, to what color it is. Even the probability of an engine damage effect occuring is up for any changes the community agrees upon. Myself and my testers are a small number of opinions vs the general community, so I expect at least some changes will need to be made.

Each plane has had the engine damage code
placed in the engine object and in many cases, the number of hits allowed to various parts of the plane have been modified so the wings don't always come off before the engine takes damage. The reflecting canopies have not been included yet.
The pack currently exists as a zip file and is just about 4 megabytes. I have no other packaging method available to me except a zip file.

Several of the planes are being modified by their owners to include a more complete engine damage and overall plane damage model, I assume with a target of plane pack 7.0.

It is my hope this engine damage pack can hold us over until then.

A few builders are pioneering new ground with engine damage by actually creating separate engine parts to take damage directly, like separate radiator, oil pan, engine block, etc. This will take time and I also hope will be ready for plane pack 7.0.

I would really like to release this pack simply because it adds so much realism and immersion to the game, but I don't have to release it. It is one thing to get shot down today, but it is a whole new challenge to take some engine damage and have to limp you way back home and land safely. Heres to hoping this pack can help improve sdoe for every one and also not piss off anyone too bad. Please let me know your thoughts.

posted 01-08- 01:01 PM               

I hope it is approved.
Thank you for your hard work!

posted 01-08- 01:19 PM               

Thanks for the incouragement. Yes the pack has been through 2 testing phases with about 10 testers and the second phase was opened to everyone who read the post I put up in the tech talk section.
The link is here: http://www.fightersquadron.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/001332.html

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Condor out

posted 01-08- 01:22 PM               

Keep up the good work.

posted 01-08- 01:51 PM               

Then, if you and your testers feel comfortable that further changes can only be made with wider input, then by all means, go for it. One other question: is there a noteable difference in the effects between online and offline?

Anyway, thanks Condor and all those who helped test!

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nealg=FC=

posted 01-08- 02:06 PM               

Keep in mind that if we adopt this for online use then EVERYONE will have to download it. No problem in my eyes but just a warning. For the online players you have to make a decision and then all will have to go by that. I really can't see any problems though. I always wanted more of this kinda stuff.

Is a bomber one next condor? Who did the work? just you?

posted 01-08- 02:37 PM            

I say release it. Sounds excellent. Possibly even enough to tempt me back online on a regular basis.

posted 01-08- 02:43 PM               

Snake,
Thanks for the input. If I hear more comments like that, I will post a link tomorrow for the final pack.

nealg,
You put it in perfect wording for me:
"further changes can only be made with wider input" from the sdoe community.
The difference online is that just as before, it takes more hits it seems, to cause damage. When the engine is damaged, performance is affected. My goal, and I hope I have hit it, is to have a good compromise between online and offline. If I have missed that goal, it still is really easy to fix it and get a new update out to everyone.

Spanky,
Yes everyone would have to download it. At 4 megs, it is about 30 minutes on a 56k modem. I don't think that is too long.
I think there are only a few bombers to work on and I could easily do that but I would need some input from the guys working on them as to when their next completed versions will be done. If it won't be for a long time, I could put out a short term fix. No promises though. I have the time, but I need to coordinate with the bombers guys first.
Well... all the work was done by me with alot of credit to Raider who answered about 100 questions when I was starting out. Please remember though, most of what I have done is a combining of the best engine damage features amongst all the planes already out there. So the work wasn't all that bad. The testing to make sure each planes engine damage worked correctly and was balanced vs wing and fuselage damage and that it did not wack the fm for each plane was the real time consumer.

Commando,
Thanks, I couldn't have said it any better.

Sunray,

I posted a link above for beta version 2 of this pack if you can't wait. If I get more encouragement, I will post a link for the final version tomorrow.

Did I mention that this pack also includes the p38j with a more hardened tail so it can be used again in sdoe without the tail falling off after only a few hits?

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Condor out

[This message has been edited by Condor (edited 01-08-2001).]

posted 01-08- 02:51 PM               

The question of 'standard' or not is pretty irrelevant. If enough people download it and like it, then the standard bit will come! In the mean-time, it will give people the chance to test it out.

most of the 'heat' centred around whether or not fictional / blueprint only planes should be included in a planepack. Some comments did get taken a little personally.....

What you are trying to do is to improve the realism of the game, and doesn't change the flight characteristics of a plane ....well.... until you get shot anyway... and as such, add a whole new dimension to the game. I have had a LOT of fun playing with DM's, and exploring what we can model in the airframe. Along with Nat, we have had some good ideas, and I know Nat has had some very good results! I have a few things working now too.....

But I digress!

posted 01-08- 04:01 PM               

As a tester I´m really impressed with the effects and quality of DMs.
I´m sure all community will enjoy it a lot.
Release It, please! I´m ansious to see a lot of smoke in a online dogfight.
Until there I hope to solve my joystick problem

posted 01-08- 04:07 PM               

Thanks guys.

posted 01-08- 04:53 PM               

I don't see any problem with releasing it as a stand-alone add-on tho.

posted 01-08- 04:54 PM               

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Brought to you by the campaign for a better Dauntless!

posted 01-08- 11:21 PM            

Go for release, get broader feedback and then based on popular demand we can issue a planepack update with your mods and a few others.

posted 01-09- 12:14 AM               

Second, you did a tremendous job with this damage model. I tried it on the 109 G against the P 51 and it was great. I was going to modify my damage model for the Mustang and I must say that I liked yours so much better that I pluged it into the latest version.

posted 01-09- 03:03 AM               

As an offline player I don't really have a right to voice an opinion about the plane pack stuff (so I won't).

As somebody who wants to work on planes but is intimidated by the huge amount of work that goes into making the DM, I love the idea of having engine DMs that can be referenced when making future planes.

posted 01-09- 03:36 AM               

What planes are updated?

TS

posted 01-09- 05:09 AM               

It was my understanding that we would see an update to the planepack in December anyway, so let's use the opportunity to incorporate the FM, DM and texture mapping updates into a new pack - PP7 anyone. Spin I'd be interested in your opinions on this.

posted 01-09- 07:16 AM               

li'l b

posted 01-09- 10:22 AM               

I think he updated -ALL- of them! All the PP6.0 planes have a new .sm file with just the engine (and fuselage where required) damage changed, and obHits adjusted to ensure the new damage item comes into play before the part blows off.

The P-47 was, I think, left as is because it's damage model is set up differently, and the Corsair's "Condor.sm" will be obsolete shortly, but it will contain a slightly modified version of Condor's DM, along with some other stuff. There may be one or two other planes being updated by their builders as well, but I think some of them are also using Condor's "standard" as the basis. Except for Nat, who is working on a "next generation" system of modeling individual engine components on the IL-2.

At least that's what I THINK is goin on

posted 01-09- 10:56 AM               

The only thing I modified on the P47D and the PE2 was the obhits values to allow the engine damage code already inplace to take effect more often. I felt the engine damage in them just didn't happen often enough compared to "my" gut feeling.

posted 01-09- 11:32 AM               

Well...it has been released this morning but,
it is not online standard and it does not have to become on-line standard either.
If you install it and then want to go back to online standard, the best way is to rename the "aircraft" directory to another name. The zip file contains a new sm file for each plane and by renaming the aircraft directory sdoe will go back to the .par files for the pp6.0 sm files.

I hope this doesn't mess things up too much for you.