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Author
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Topic: Ju 88 DN?
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Maury Markowitz
Pilot
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posted 01-03- 05:04 PM
   
What is this plane? I've never heard of it, and I can't find anything about it on the 'net or in any of my books (admittedly I don't have one on the Ju).Is this a real plane? If not, should it really be in PP6? Maury IP: Logged |
Aladar
Pilot
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posted 01-03- 05:56 PM
=-[This message has been edited by Aladar (edited 01-14-2001).] IP: Logged |
wakeup tailgunner
Pilot
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posted 01-04- 04:52 AM
it's fun to play with, but I have to agree, it's not plane pack material!We really should stick to actual planes, ones that really flew, for the PP. I love all the SWOTL stuff, but don't think it should be made a standard. IP: Logged |
Spanky the Mad Dog
Pilot
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posted 01-04- 03:27 PM
Spanky here... I disagree. Even if it wasn't a real plane. If the germans researched it but it never got made and some of us want to play some what ifs. Its alot easier if its in the plane pack. Whats the big deal a couple extra megs in the plane pack. Now if its a plane that never was even thought of then I can see it not being in the plane pack. but it still doesn't bug me that its in there. IP: Logged |
Yardstick
Pilot
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posted 01-04- 04:06 PM
By that definition any flight of fantasy qualifies for the planepack, in which we're moving to Crimson Skies. We have got to delineate somewhere and it might as well be drawing the line at historical aircraft. When we are talking about prototypes then it is a different matter, the Go229 never saw combat but was destined for it, here the issue is less clear cut. But to the best of my knowledge the Germans never even designed a four engined Ju88 and hence we are talking about a fictional aircraft with a fictional flight model.
------------------
Yardstick painted this
[This message has been edited by Yardstick (edited 01-04-2001).] IP: Logged |
Pye
Pilot
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posted 01-04- 05:22 PM
It's in the Planepack By Accident! So it was never meant to be in it! the Virtual Designer, Gustavo, was suprised when he saw it in!,Accidents happen...! Just post here IF you you want Spin to remove it! , Gustavo, the designer won't mind. We really don't want SDOE ONLINE Standard! thats what the Plane pack is, to turn into a joke! This one could be left in tho as it's the first!! , and as example of what sdoe is cabable off!,
(personally I say take it out) But I request no other dream machines be put into the Planepack! This opens the door to a "dream machine planepack" if someone else wants to manage that! :-) like Yardy said, Crimson Skies! IP: Logged |
wakeup tailgunner
Pilot
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posted 01-04- 05:41 PM
I think it should come out.Spanky has a good point about planes like the Go229. If it got further than paper, and was actualluy prototyped, wind tunnel tested etc. then it should be considered. Anything purely fictional, or just a paper design, should not be in the plane pack. The plane pack should be a showcase of the best the Sim has to offer, and realism has to be a factor. Don't get me wrong, I think it is fun to play with these things, and fun to build them too! I played around with a Bv170, and built a verison of the B17 gunship they experimented with. Neither were planepack material! IP: Logged |
Maury Markowitz
Pilot
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posted 01-04- 07:24 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Spanky the Mad Dog:
Whats the big deal a couple extra megs in the plane pack.
That's the big deal. quote:
Now if its a plane that never was even thought of then I can see it not being in the plane pack.
a) I don't believe this was "ever even thought of". I can't find any references to this plane, although the naming seems to suggest it's one of the mythical nuclear bombers? b) I just thought of a plane, I call it the "Gizifa". It flies forever at 14 million miles an hour on a thimblefull of water. How do I get it included in the PP? Maury
IP: Logged |
Maury Markowitz
Pilot
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posted 01-04- 07:26 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Pye:
It's in the Planepack By Accident!
Heh! quote:
(personally I say take it out)
Yeah, me too. In fact, I think we should also remove the He 100, Go 229 and He 162 FOR THE TIME BEING while the well-discussed problems in their FM's are addressed. Maury IP: Logged |
ArgonV
Pilot
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posted 01-04- 11:22 PM
Maury, MOST of the FM problems with the Go-229 have ben solved!  IP: Logged |
spin
Pilot
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posted 01-05- 12:33 AM
Actually,Gustavo requested his planes be put in the pack, as i recall he included the ju88dn in that request. The others were 190 variants at the time and they hadn't been extensively tested. With the number of these already floating around and the divergence of dm and fm characteristics I hesitated to add more.
- I kind of made a compromise to include something and I guess I shouldn't have. Oh well, can't please everyone. I personally agree. But it's kind of in there for now. I'm not planning to force everyone to download another 30mb pack just to remove one plane. IP: Logged |
Diego Lozano
Pilot
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posted 01-05- 01:33 AM
I just ran a search and nobody was opposed to it being included. Basically you cant "un-download" it. Its there on everyones drive. This would have been better handled by someone politely asking Gustavo if he'd mind it not being included in the next PP. Maybe in the future all PP entries should be by nomination. This way if 99% of the people hate it, you'll know that at least one person enjoyed the effort you put into it. I'm sorry to say but, because of this growing trend in attitude here the project I'm working on may be my last. IP: Logged |
Hawk
General
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posted 01-05- 09:10 AM
Going to be tough to tell someone their plane cannot be included in the next plane pack.Who is going to make up the rules? Who is going to decide what rules? Who is going to enforce the rules? Be careful guys, you might turn away some great talent if this stops being fun. ------------------
Hawk
Forum manager and bar keep
http://rcwarbirds.com/
 [This message has been edited by Hawk (edited 01-05-2001).] IP: Logged |
Maury Markowitz
Pilot
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posted 01-05- 11:45 AM
quote:
Originally posted by ArgonV:
Maury, MOST of the FM problems with the Go-229 have ben solved!
The version in the PP6 includes these changes? Maury IP: Logged |
ArgonV
Pilot
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posted 01-05- 12:25 PM
No the new revisions have not ben included in PP6. You can however get the updated Go-229 at my site. (Look in my sig.)------------------
-=Make sims, not hype=- Visit My Sites!
http://ArgonV.tripod.com/My_Page.html
http://ArgonV.tripod.com/AoE_Page.html IP: Logged |
weasel
Pilot
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posted 01-05- 12:28 PM
There is such a great chance for diversity here. We have a Plane Pack and we have a WWI pack. I favor the idea of somewhat limiting the packs to eras (ie. WWI, WWII, Korean, Viet Nam, UNLIMITED). This will not impeed the creativity of the builders. If I wanted to fly online with one of the WWI flyers, I would have to download the WWI pack. Maybe someday I would like to fly online with a Korean pack??? For now I enjoy the PP6 but Nats A-10 is a blast! The decision should be wheather it should be considered WWII or not.
weasel
PS. If you build that "Gizifa" and put it in the UNLIMITED pack, I'll fly that sucker .[This message has been edited by weasel (edited 01-05-2001).] IP: Logged |
wakeup tailgunner
Pilot
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posted 01-05- 04:53 PM
Another good reason for dividing stuff up is to reduce the size of the packs!If we split WW1, Korean War, Later Jets, and SWOTL into seperate packs, then those who want them can download them, and those who never play that particular period can save the download time. Just a thought! IP: Logged |
Rendsburger
Pilot
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posted 01-05- 05:27 PM
wakeup tailgunner,
i aggree with you to split the plainpack monster.Rendsburger IP: Logged |
Sunray
Pilot
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posted 01-06- 12:19 AM
Hi. I agree with splitting the download files but only due to my 56K modem. Although I'm of two minds about that. This is a GAME. All the people who have the talent and time to create an aircraft that works should be 'allowed' to get it into "service". We should all be thankful that we didn't buy a game that can't be added to. The 'Unlimited' class could be the prototypes that never made it into service. It'd still be fun to play with them.
Oh, and it's a very sad day when I try to be the voice of reason.IP: Logged |
Da Jug head
Pilot
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posted 01-06- 07:47 AM
Actually, if you want a plane based on a prototype that actually flew- the JU88DN qualifies. It just has the wrong designation.It should be called a Ju-488 Going to the good old Jane's book, it says Germany tried 4 engine variants of the Ju 88, Ju 18, and Ju 388. These were in the prototype stage when Germany surrendered. The last line of the paragraph states "It is known, however, that the designation Ju 488 was allocated to a 4 engine aircraft based on the Ju 88." ------------------
"Where'd he GO!?!?"
thunk-thunk-thunk-zing-OUCH
That answered my question IP: Logged |
Commando
Pilot
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posted 01-06- 01:37 PM
First link on Ju488 http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/ju488.html talks about 2 prototypes being destroyed in 1944 by French Resistance. This link shows image of Ju488 which has a remarkable resemablance to thr Ju88DN even down to undercarriage, there are other differences such as the Ju188 type nose and extended fuse but essentially as an ops only job it fits.
http://members.aol.com/pelzig/ju488.htm IP: Logged |
Jerry
Pilot
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posted 01-06- 03:17 PM
Nice sites Commando! Thanks.IP: Logged |
wakeup tailgunner
Pilot
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posted 01-06- 04:09 PM
I built a rough one of these a while back. I grafted in extra wing swections, to get the span, and an extra fuse section to get the length. I kept meaning to re-shape the lods so they would fit, but never got round to it. Binned it last time I cleared some space on the hard-drive.IP: Logged |
Maury Markowitz
Pilot
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posted 01-06- 05:27 PM
quote:
Originally posted by ArgonV:
No the new revisions have not ben included in PP6. You can however get the updated Go-229 at my site. (Look in my sig.)
Thanks Argon! Maury IP: Logged |
Maury Markowitz
Pilot
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posted 01-06- 05:29 PM
quote:
Originally posted by wakeup tailgunner:
Another good reason for dividing stuff up is to reduce the size of the packs!If we split WW1, Korean War, Later Jets, and SWOTL into seperate packs
Yeah. It might be more work for the first release or two, but after that it should be less work to maintain it all. Maury IP: Logged |
Maury Markowitz
Pilot
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posted 01-06- 05:31 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Da Jug head:
Actually, if you want a plane based on a prototype that actually flew- the JU88DN qualifies. It just has the wrong designation.It should be called a Ju-488
While there are definitely four-engine versions of Ju 88-like planes, the Ju 88DN isn't anything like any of them. Maury
IP: Logged |
Maury Markowitz
Pilot
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posted 01-06- 05:33 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Da Jug head:
Actually, if you want a plane based on a prototype that actually flew- the JU88DN qualifies. It just has the wrong designation.It should be called a Ju-488
While there are definitely four-engine versions of Ju 88-like planes, the Ju 88DN isn't anything like any of them. Maury
IP: Logged |
Commando
Pilot
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posted 01-06- 08:45 PM
I disagree Maury, it is not correct but it has the four engines, 4 undercarrige wheels and has components of the Ju88 . As I've said before it should have a 2 rudder tail, ju188 nose and extended fuse but it is an honest attempt from a Guy in Argentina who does not speak english and we do not speak Spanish to allow him to follow everything we get up to here, he needs our support and help.IP: Logged |
Gustavo
Pilot
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posted 01-07- 12:31 AM
Thank you friend Commando for your defense, also, with the Ju 88 DN with its landing train is used "Tirrel year 78", had I never smashed as with the Ju 88 A4 when trying to land, that night in Cali 12, ¿do you remember it?.
In this post I read from critical until flatteries, and I believe that each one is in their right of saying freely. I at all will feel offended because they say that it is not real, because this it was the idea when I made it that grieve it was beginning to manage the Open Planes. That that yes I believe, it is that it is being unjust with those who made the pp 6.0 making them feel that it is polluted, and I find disheveled that they are intended to make the whole work again alone for an airplane or like want to call it." The pp 6.0 are a work I magnify that they have given us, we should be but grateful.
That it is the 88 DN in the pp 6.0 he/she is due to bad experts, problems with the languages (like Commando said), etc., but in any moment bad will on the part of anybody.
SDOE the same as any shammer is in itself it is a fiction, let us don't seek of the 100% of reality that he/she will never be able to have (for luck).
Happy 2001 for all.
Gracias amigo Commando por tu defensa, además, con el Ju 88 DN con su tren de aterrizaje estilo “Tirrel año 78”, jamás me hubiera estrellado como con el Ju 88 A4 al intentar aterrizar, aquella noche en Cali 12, ¿lo recuerdas?.
En este post leí desde críticas hasta halagos, y creo que cada uno está en su derecho de opinar libremente. Yo de ningún modo voy a sentirme ofendido porque digan que no es real, porque esta fue la idea cuando lo hice, que apenas estaba empezando a manejar el Open Planes. Lo que sí creo, es que se está siendo injustos con quienes hicieron el pp 6.0 haciéndolos sentir que está contaminado, y me parece “descabellado” que se les proponga hacer todo el trabajo de nuevo solo por un avión “o como quieran llamarlo”. El pp 6.0 es un trabajo magnifico que nos han regalado, deberíamos ser mas agradecidos.
Que esté el 88 DN en el pp 6.0 se debe a malos entendidos, problemas con los idiomas (como dijo Commando), etc., pero en ningún momento mala voluntad por parte de nadie.
SDOE al igual que cualquier simulador es en sí mismo es una ficción, no pretendamos de el un 100% de realidad que jamás podrá tener (por suerte).
Feliz 2001 para todos.
[This message has been edited by Gustavo (edited 01-07-2001).] IP: Logged |
ArgonV
Pilot
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posted 01-07- 01:41 AM
With a few slight modifications to the Ju-88 DN, we could turn it into the Ju-488 and thus PP6 could be updated with these modifications to please every one. Does anyone have any pics of the real aircraft? P.S. Gustavo, concerning the BV 155V1, I found more info on it in one of my books. The BV 155V1 did not carry four 20mm cannons, but it did carry two of them. IP: Logged |
Commando
Pilot
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posted 01-07- 01:35 PM
ArgonV, I was in a site last week with info on all Junkers planes, when I find it again I will post the ref for you and Gustavo. Yes that was a heavy landing Gustavo  .IP: Logged |
Commando
Pilot
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posted 01-07- 02:01 PM
This is the ref for the Hugo Junkers homepage, it is extensive but it takes an age to dl some pages as they have not broken them down into managable pieces so be patient http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/hzoe/ju_home.htm And more info including photos of prototypes before and after the Marquis sabotage
http://visi.net/~djohnson/junkers/ju488.html [This message has been edited by Commando (edited 01-07-2001).] IP: Logged |
ArgonV
Pilot
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posted 01-07- 02:30 PM
So basicly, all one has to do is start out with the Ju-188 as a base, copy paste some engines, add a Lancaster tail section, put in the parameters, have someone remap and you have the Ju-488? Hmm.... you would have to enlarge the middle section and enlarge the wings too.[This message has been edited by ArgonV (edited 01-07-2001).] IP: Logged |
Commando
Pilot
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posted 01-08- 02:30 PM
Good summary ArgonV, I know you are on a break but I will be here to help when the urge returns . IP: Logged |
ArgonV
Pilot
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posted 01-08- 03:47 PM
Actually Commando... I couldnt do most of the work. I have no clue how to use AC3D and even if I did its not registered. Sorry.IP: Logged |
Maury Markowitz
Pilot
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posted 01-08- 11:01 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Commando:
honest attempt from a Guy in Argentina who does not speak english and we do not speak Spanish to allow him to follow everything we get up to here, he needs our support and help.
And I'm all for it! I just don't want it in the plane pack. Maury IP: Logged |
ReKKa
Cadet
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posted 01-12- 02:27 PM
'lo.
Dumb-newbie here.
I'm sorry, but I don't think it should be included in PP6.Should only put 'real' stuff in.
Otherwise, U could put some real wierd stuff in FW191s, 'Amerikabombers' and all that malarky ------------------
[TEMPEST/AAiC/AAW/ex-4th/DOH]ReKKa/'RaKKe'/'ReCCa'/'Milkman'
warbird.org.uk
airattack.co.uk
tempestsqn.co.uk
ICQ#: 10529490 IP: Logged |
Himdog
Pilot
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posted 01-12- 04:13 PM
I like the Ju88DN, was it real no but what about all those "uber" planes we have now some are just a joke. Do we take them out too? I say no, leave them all in. As Spin said "Can not please everyone", what a true statement. If you don't like it don't fly it is what I say! At this time I would like to ask again that when the update to the pp is made I want to vote to add the Ju188 (thanks Royhoboy) in too, please. Big thanks to all you plane makers out there, this is one person who thanks you guys every time I boot up SDOE!------------------
7./JG3_Himdog out
www.luftwaffe.net IP: Logged |
Pye
Pilot
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posted 01-12- 08:18 PM
SO Gustav, I misinterpreted when you said that you were suprised that the ju88DN was in the plane pack!, there are 2 ways to see that statement I guess!I think no-one would be put off SDOE by having their fictional planes in a "Crimson Skies" type, Plane pack! The big issue was the planepack getting to big!, so the sensible thing is to remove or not add fictional planes into the WW2 scenario Planepack, I think it would problably not help our Guys who spent countless hours perfecting an FM and characteristics and have mutant plane plonked next to their plane in the sdoe list! Thats not justice, for our existing developers either!
and that may drive a few of our talented existing developers away! never mind the new ones that might join!, Myself included!
Can I ask you Gustavo: Would you mind if it was taken out?
after reading the replies in this forum!
IP: Logged |
ArgonV
Pilot
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posted 01-12- 09:16 PM
Sheesh... If I were Gustavo I would feel pretty bad right about now. I mean look at you guys, you are like bashing his work. I know I would feel depressed, upset and unwanted after reading this post. I see no genuine reason to take it out of the pack at all. If you must, you could at least let him put another plane in the pack to replace the Ju-88DN... You could then add the Ju-88DN to the "Secret/Experimantal Aircraft" pack.  [This message has been edited by ArgonV (edited 01-12-2001).] IP: Logged |
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