Another rushed out Christmas release...

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Author	Topic: Another rushed out Christmas release...
Gecko Pilot	posted 12-25- 07:55 AM Hi all, I know it's far (and I really mean it!) from being ready for release, but since it's that time of the year, I thought I'd make some jet fans happy and make an alpha version of the MiG-15 public: http://www.camtp.uni-mb.si/camtp/veble/sims/Mig15.zip There are plenty of unfinished things in it (cockpit, and I should include a visible pilot in the near future ), but it has a couple of guns, can be crashed or shot down, and flies nicely. For non jet fans, you should at least check it out to see how the sun looks from inside the cockpit! Merry Christmas to all SDOErs, -Gecko =FC= IP: Logged
Pete Hawk Pilot	posted 12-25- 05:20 PM It's great! Thanks for the early trial I'll fly it more later, going to see the movie "Castaway" now. I love the way the ground handling feels and the gear articulation. It couldn't be any better IP: Logged
AGAS - 5 Pilot	posted 12-25- 10:22 PM Thanks Gecko, Merry Christmas mate. Cheers, AGAS 5 IP: Logged
ArgonV Pilot	posted 12-25- 11:35 PM Two words... KICK ARSE!!!!!!! One thing: The CG is too far back which is affecting the FM. Other than that, just about perfect! I LOVE the gear retract! perfect DOFing! Cheers mate! IP: Logged
Hawk General	posted 12-25- 11:48 PM Now if Mig Alley's Mig would have looked like this! Very nice and it looks "right" I can not get the AI to take off or fly it yet, any advice. I tried to set up some Shooting Star-Mig action and the Migs would start by AI but not unlock the brakes. Is their any cool skins for the Shooting Star yet? ------------------ Hawk Forum manager and bar keep http://rcwarbirds.com/ IP: Logged
Pete Hawk Pilot	posted 12-26- 03:44 AM Argon, I noticed that too, immediately. The CG is too far back, fer sure. Unfortunately the fix involves basically redoing the entire airplane. It's still a great plane but it does need fixing in that area to be just right. To all plane builders... the CG of an aiplane needs to be about 1/3 back from the leading edge of an aircraft's wing. I've flown lots of real planes, and lots of R/C planes where I've had to adjust the CG myself before flight. I can tell you, anything other than this is just "off" and doesn't look or feel right. Sorry to tell you that Gecko, but it's the truth. So please, to everyone building new planes, if you aren't sure about your work, send it to me for a test flight and I'll give you a "yea" or "nay." The key point in all this though is to figure this out EARLY on! If you get all your fuselage, wings, and tail parts positioned and DOF'd up, only to found out CG is wrong later, you'll end up have to redo it all over again. The model MUST be correctly positioned in the 3D program and then tested in SDOE (using full fuselage and wings to get it right by eyeballing it). This is how I've done all my planes and so far, they all look as they should with a correct CG location. I can't stress this enough. Gecko, I hope you are willing to fix it. If not I understand, it takes a lot of work to get to the point the MiG is at now. IP: Logged
Gecko Pilot	posted 12-26- 05:36 AM Pete, fixing the c.g. is easy. In fact, I deliberately moved it further back to get the spins work as wanted, and the plane to behave as in Mig Alley. Of course, I wouldn't know if MA handling is right... See, I never positioned parts in OPS, they are all 'centered' at the origin, so all the phy- properties are done relative to a common origin. It's just a matter of moving the c.g. of the fuselage a bit to the front. I moved it about a foot further up now, and the updated plane can be dowloaded from the same link. I'd appreciate any further input as to how much more to the front it needs to be! Oh, the AI problems are to be had for sure, I've never tried them with taking off before. As said, it's a very preliminary version. -Gecko P.S.: How do you like the sun? IP: Logged
Hawk General	posted 12-26- 09:40 AM The sun looks just right. A very cool feature. It is kinda neat the way the plane rocks back on it's tail and adding power and brakes brings the nose back down on the ground :-) I do hope you can get the AI working for some cool early jet action. ------------------ Hawk Forum manager and bar keep http://rcwarbirds.com/ IP: Logged
Pete Hawk Pilot	posted 12-26- 03:53 PM Nope, it's still there. I know what your thinking is about moving the CG, but what I'm talking about can only be fixed by moving the model BACKWARDS a few feet in 3DS Max, or AC3D, whichever you are using, and then moving the other parts back also. This will put the CG pivot point just aft of the wings leading edge at the wing root. The best piece to start with is the main forward fuselage piece and then bring the other bits of the fuse forward until it's right. Right now, imagine a string going from wingtip to wingtip and extending out even further. On this string, the pivot point which your current model (the updated one) rotates about (pitching up and down) is sitting on the trailing edge of the center wing root. Clearly too far back. If you yank your joystick forward and back and look at it from an outside view in the game, it needs to be just aft of the leading edge wing root, say 2 feet back. I hope that makes more sense. The only way to fix this is a complete redo. A real pain for sure but a necessary one. Once that is fixed it'll be a real beauty. Well, it already is except for that. [This message has been edited by Pete Hawk (edited 12-26-2000).] IP: Logged
Hawk General	posted 12-26- 05:19 PM Been having some great mixes with the Sabre's but need that AI to work. It seems when I start the mission the Migs engines are already running and it confuses the AI. They just sit on the runway with the engine running and brakes on. IP: Logged
Sv Pilot	posted 12-26- 09:34 PM Pete, I do not understand what you are saying. Clearly if Gecko adds more weight to the front, the CG will move forward. The mesh origin has nothing to do with the CG... right? ------------------ -Sv =FC= WWI in SDOE! IP: Logged
Pete Hawk Pilot	posted 12-26- 09:47 PM Sv, No, it's the positioning of the model before it's brought into an SM file that matters the most. Remember that He-162 Salamander, with the CG way out on the nose, and how silly it looked from a side view? This is the same problem, only moved rearward. IP: Logged
ArgonV Pilot	posted 12-26- 10:16 PM Sv, where the camera is positioned when you are in external view, is where the CG of the whole aircraft is. The inertia boxes are just where the weight of the model is distributed, not where the center of the aircraft is. CG is where the game itself interprets the center of the aircraft to be. One could, in theory, have the CG so far foward, back or side-to-side that when you go into external view, the aircraft isnt even in view. Then the arcraft would rotate around that center point (The CG) when you rolled the aircraft or pulled up or down. That would look incredibly stupid, and I dont know why you would do that... but it can be done! As Pete said... the He-162 is a VERY good example of this. Go into external view and the view is centered on the nose of the aircraft. The aircraft then rotates around that center point and this not only causes the FM to be screwed, but it looks silly aswell. IP: Logged
Zurawski Pilot	posted 12-27- 12:13 AM Slow down boys... ..Your aguing over "termonology" at the moment! CofG (or center of gravity)... Is defined by the phyInertia boxes or applied weight (lbs). The sum of the inertian boxes ultimately defines the CofG for the entire aircraft as it is applied to the physics engine in FSSDOE. Global or Object origin is the "spacial" positioning of an object using a three-point (X,Y,Z) in a space. This is defined by the placement of the very first modeled objects origin (which everything is built off/on)... Make sense? IP: Logged
Pete Hawk Pilot	posted 12-27- 02:53 AM You're absolutely right Zur. I should be saying the overall model's origin and NOT CG. Thanks for making that clearer. IP: Logged
Gecko Pilot	posted 12-27- 03:49 AM Pete and ArgonV, I do believe that it's only a visual thing what you are noticing, and only applies in the outside view. The object origin specifies to how the camera tracks the object, and has nothing to do with its physical properties. The plane actually rotates with the c.o.g. as defined by inertia parameters, the global origin only specifies the postion of the camera. From sitting inside the plane, the global object origin matters little. Only in outside views it may look funny as the camera doesn't track the c.o.g., but an imaginary 'origin' of the plane. Therefore it's a cosmetic problem, and I will get around to it. It has nothing to do with how the plane flies, though. -Gecko IP: Logged
ArgonV Pilot	posted 12-27- 02:17 PM Gecko... but it does affect how the plane flies! It did on the He-162, and it did on the P-39... Why wouldnt it with the Mig-15? The He-162 was way nose heavy because thats where the global origin was... the nose! I added TONS of weight to the tail of the He-162 once and it didnt help at all. The P-39 is the same way... just not as much. Have you noticed that your Mig is tail heavy? Both from internal and external views? I can notice right away that its tail heavy from the cockpit. Thats due to the origin of the model being off. Once the origin is off, everything else is off too! Thus the FM is affected. IP: Logged
Pete Hawk Pilot	posted 12-27- 08:28 PM It's definitely NOT just cosmetic, as Argon said. It means everything. IP: Logged
Gecko Pilot	posted 12-28- 05:08 AM Sorry, guys, but I just don't agree with you. If the physics engine is programmed as it should be, and everything else points to it being so, the global origin shouldn't matter. It's true that some discrepancies in relation to their origin can be found in the behaviour of parts when they are spinning at very high angular velocities (such that the physics engine cannot handle anymore due to the insufficiently small timestep), but in the regimes where the plane operates this doesn't apply. The global origin is just a reference point, nothing more. It's Galileo who figured that one out, and who am I to argue . In any case, I'll fix the plane to make it look properly. I can assure you, though, that the handling properties will not change one bit. -Gecko =FC= [This message has been edited by Gecko (edited 12-28-2000).] IP: Logged
Gecko Pilot	posted 12-28- 05:52 AM Another note; the MiG feels tail heavy because the phy- proerties are defined tail heavy (the c.g. is just in front of the main wheels). If I move the c.g. just a foot further to the nose, it starts to feel nose heavy and doesn't want to turn. -Gecko =FC= IP: Logged
Hawk General	posted 12-28- 09:43 AM Grecko no matter what the balance, it is still a great model and asset to this game. I have been flying it against the Sabre and it's a ball buddy. ------------------ Hawk Forum manager and bar keep http://rcwarbirds.com/ IP: Logged
AGAS - 5 Pilot	posted 12-28- 05:40 PM I've been flying it heaps too mate and it's great Some observations: 1. When flying straight and level on auto pilot, look at it from the front - the plane is rotated a few degrees right on its longitudinal axis. 2. I don't know historical match ups - but it absolutely kicks the F86's arse and is a better match up to the P80 (success only with padlock) Cheers, AGAS 5 IP: Logged

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