posted 11-24- 10:35 PM               

The Jug has a HORRIBLE roll rate. Real life it was much better. In fact, with a 5 bladed paddle prop it could roll inside of a p-51's turn and get a deflection shot off- this really pissed off a couple of Mustang pilots that had a mock dogfight with Jugs using the 5 bladed prop.

The shooting star drops more than anyother plane when starting on the runway.

Last- is this right? Took off in a P-51D, at 500 ft pushed the throttle all the way fwd. Max speed was 334 mph in level flight.

posted 11-25- 03:51 PM               

(Sorta like the P-39 with the FOUR-blader, but I've seen the picture of that one).

But yeah, the Jug was supposed to have a pretty good roll rate, and the Mustang was not IMO noted for having one.

OTOH, the guys who did the FM on the Jug are pretty meticulous, to say the least. Make sure you've got test numbers to compare with, and not just "dogfight reports."

I've "outfought" F-15s and F-18s in a C-130, but that doesn't necessarily mean I can outroll or outturn one. OutRUN maybe...

posted 11-26- 02:04 PM               

I did some tests,the Jug has the same roll rate as the P-38 (7-8 seconds), and has a slower roll rate than the Mustang.

Just for the heck of it I compared the roll rate to a Stuka. The Jug wins, but by less than 1/2 a second!

Just watched one of the Warbirds videos. I saw 3 shots of the Thunderbolt rolling. I timed the rolls. First one was 4 seconds, second one was a hair over 3 seconds, (this is 1/2 the time it takes the jug in SDOE to roll ) and the last was 5 seconds rolling with a STEEP angle of attack.

------------------
"Where'd he GO!?!?"
thunk-thunk-thunk-zing-OUCH
That answered my question

[This message has been edited by Da Jug head (edited 11-26-2000).]

posted 11-27- 12:16 AM               

A roll-rate of 3-to four seconds would place the Jug in par with a FW-190 ... which is one of the fastest roll-performance aircraft made.

Note that if you throw a little rudder wilst rolling, it will give you your 4 second-roll... Problem is that is not a proper roll. That my friend is a snap-roll (or at least the begining of one)... a "proper" roll is performed using lnly enough rudder to keep the nose of the plane lined with the horizon...

Also note the altitude and speed your testing at... the Jugs best roll-alt. is above 19,000 ft. and around 300 mph.

But, please... prove me wrong! I'm not perfect nor will I attest that all the documents and specifications I used are 100% accurate (of coarse I assume they are however)

posted 11-27- 03:15 AM               

You also have to consider fuel load and weapons. P-47s today don't have the weapons and ammo in the wings. In WW2 they had 8 guns and all the ammo in the wings. So of course the P-47 today will roll faster then one in WW2. Stats for the FM are based on WW2 Active aircraft, not on planes flying today.

------------------
Tony "Razer" Martin

"Making SDOE a dangerous Place, One plane at a time!"
FS Hangar

posted 11-27- 10:14 AM               

I hate being treated like an idiot. The clips were from WWII of an 8th air force P-47 no missle or bomb loadout, and I'm comparing the time to the P-47D in SDOE with no missle or bomb loadout and guns fired until they are empty.

posted 11-27- 12:07 PM               

No one is calling you and idiot. I do have to question your source of reference to justify your observation.

Using film as your benchmark is asking for a host of possible variables?

"Was the footage speed altered at any point?"
"What was the airspeed of 47 when you timed the roll?"
"What was the altitude?"
"How much rudder was induced to assist the roll?"

posted 11-27- 12:27 PM               

I wasn't upset at your reply- you have good points.

I've worked lot's with video and from what I can tell, the film speed wasn't altered.

The slower rolls on film
were performed without rudder. Can't tell on the fast roll due to the camera angle but I think rudder was applied.

Altitude- can't tell. But my other points about how the Jug should roll faster than a Mustang (in fact, in real life, I think it's almost on a par with the Corsair, just a hair slower), and the fact that it rolls almost as slowly as the Stuka to me shows there is a problem.

I'll do more testing at different altitudes using the same airspeed in the game and let you know the results. Seems to me, other than the OPS designers, not a lot of people are familiar with the Jug's performance characteristics (Guess cuz the poor old Jug just isn't as elegant as the Mustang)

If you want to post some parameters you'd like me to use, I'll use those.

BTW, is the SDOE model using a 12' propeller or the 13' paddle bladed prop? (Changes the climb rate by 400ft/min)

posted 11-27- 12:42 PM               

Glad you took my post constructively as it was intended...

I have roll-rate data/specs at home... I'll send'm to you this evening.

I did spec testing @ 19,000ft @ approximately 300 mph...

Mind you... one of the short-comings of FS/OP is that neither WEP nor compression is modelled. hence there "is" some "happy medium" compromises made... As I recall (yeah, it been a while since I've looked at the 47s FM)... but I don't recall them being of much concequence except over 350 mph ...

RE: Prop used... I don't quite recall. If you have OPStudio, you see the diameter in mm.