posted 11-24- 01:02 PM               

I am curious how Rowan will handle this in BoB...I'm pretty sure they may make them a bit more powerful than reality, but will have to wait and see. I have been following KC23's beta reports over at SimHQ's forum, and he hasn't mentioned anything about the guns strong or weak. Perhaps they are using the cannon variants of the Spit and Hurri, though I doubt it.

I hope we can see something on this, though; if it involves testing, I would volunteer to help test, as it would be nice to have some actual BoB missions online, with the Hurris and Spit1a's and the Stuka.

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nealg=FC=

posted 11-24- 01:36 PM               

So, I might be wrong...perhaps these are pretty realistic overall. Though the 50% hit rate online has to hurt what effectiveness they do have. Maybe we can just make a Spit 1b by adding the cannons? I understand that there was little difference between the 1a and 1b except for armament. Same for the Hurri Mk1 vs Mk2?

Or even changing the .303's for all .20mm cannon? Yuck...I don't care for that idea at all! I might do it just for me offline if I could figure it out...but that would be just a toy. Hehe..yeah, some toy!

Maybe if the packet hit rate could be adjusted now to 100%? Is that even possible, even in a patch? And would it make it even more laggy online?

So many questions, so few answers!

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nealg=FC=

posted 11-24- 03:13 PM               

Since I am relatively new to SDOE (but not to sims), I have a question:

nealg stated "though I think that offline they are pretty close to correct." Am I to take this that there are two different versions for SDOE, one for offline play and one for online play? IF so, may I ask why?

It would seem to me that standardizing, if the two versions are the case, the online and offline standard would be the most realistic, not to mention simplest thing to do. Someone that flies offline as much as online would have to adjust his flying traits every time he tries one or the other.

Now, I hope that this is just my ignorance to this sim and it's inner workings that are making me think there are two versions/standards for it. But this isn't the first time I've noticed this type of comment, the "seperation" of off and online.

Thanks for your help/clarification.

Gambler

posted 11-24- 04:21 PM               

Thanks for the reply. I have read much (all there is anyway) on the online damage bug and the subsequent packet loss threads.

I have done some tests with other pilots online to evaluate the "effectiveness" of the .303's. While flying a 109 straight and level, it was severely plastered with all the .303 ammo the Spitfire had. There were continious yellow flashes, meaning hits if I am not mistaken. And this 109 just kept flying like a swarm of flies were hitting it.
There we times that the 109 did start smoking in it's engine area, but it wouldn't go down.

Now, I have never claimed to be an authority on Spitfires, .303 caliber guns, flight or damage modeling of the 109E series aircraft or pretty much any other thing besides tequilia consumption over a 12 hour period. BUT, if the 109's that the Luftwaffe flew over the Battle of Britian had this ability to shed .303's off like the ones in SDOE do, the British Isles would be speaking German to this very day, IMHO.

posted 11-25- 12:04 AM               

Thanks, Tail, for that info. I should have mentioned that, but wasn't entirely sure if I remembered hearing that or not. I know when getting hits online with the .303's, it sure doesn't SEEM like it. BUT ----(hehe, ya knew it would be here, right?)

Pachy - and PR - both of you are on to what might be the problem. Further on in the article I referred to earlier, there are references to both of these factors. One that I knew about....convergence. Yes, that definitely had much to do with it, and some pilots were chastised for having their convergence set too - hmm - closely, I think. Not uncommon with both RAF and US pilots in WWII, from what little I have read.

The other - DM - was something that many of us have wondered about. I discovered in that article something I was not aware of...and contributed to the .303 listlessness in real life. That was the way the LW planes were armored. Apparently, the 88's, 87's, and 109's were well armored at the back area of the plane, but not at all - or lightly - in the front, around the engines. Thus, a good head on or deflection shot - allegedly something the RAF pilots excelled at - would definitely result in a kill or at least heavy engine damage. Coming at a LW bomber or fighter from the 6 o clock position was next to useless...supposedly there are even accounts of RAF pilots seeing their rounds ricochet, or 'bounce', off the bandit plane even at close range when closing from the 6 and using the .303's. The advent of the .20 mm cannon took that advantage away from the LW, but at only 60 rounds per gun in the Spit 1b, the pilot had to be very sure of his shot before wasting his cannon ammo.

So, in the end, it is likely more of a DM issue. But since the .303's can be used effectively offline, even if it does take hundreds of rounds, and are basically ineffective online ( I say basically, because I have 1 or 2 times actually caused engine damage to a opponent with the .303's online, even as lousy a shot as I usually am...LOL ), I still feel that the online 'damage bug' - if you wish to refer to it as that - has the unfortunate side effect of negating the use of these planes effectively and enjoyably online. Unfortunate. Unless someone can come up with a answer - I wish I had one.

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nealg=FC=

posted 11-25- 08:30 AM               

I think they are only useful on Condors new engine DM. But think about it, you could probably shoot right through the rear fuselage of most planes and not hit anything so you have to aim for the engines or pilot.

posted 11-25- 09:03 AM               

There were not many of them. I think this depicts well the effectiveness of the .303s.

Btw, I've never heard of three kill wonders.

Camo

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Camouflage
XO, Lentolaivue 34
www.muodos.fi/LLv34

posted 11-25- 11:11 AM            

Has this version been flown online and do people believe it's dm is better than the existing standard?

On the 303 damage to the 109s, I've flown the spit1a against one of the 109s (I think it was the k) offline and fired the whole armament into it without destroying it (a high percentage of hits too). I have found these planes extremely difficult to destroy. They start to show engine stutter but that's about it, eventually they lose power and become unflyable. The pilot will land but they do not explode or lose parts.

jmho.

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Spin

posted 11-25- 01:53 PM               

I know that part of my problem with the .303's is my terrible aim. That is partly due to my Spit being a unstable gun platform, and it has nothing to do with the plane, the sim, or the modelling, but with my inputs and controls. CTFJ has helped me some there, so perhaps with more adjusting, I can find the right combo to overcome the 'jitters' I experience when trying to get a decent shot off.

I wonder if I could have any success with...eh, well, maybe I'll try something if I can figure out how to do it.

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nealg=FC=

posted 11-30- 01:21 AM               

Tailslide wrote back and noted that there are some damage model items such as fuel leaks which would cause a plane to be forced down without actual structual failure which are NOT modelled in FSSDOE.

I had a Spitfire smoking in three places (he was a friendly so he didn't fight back) from .303 machine guns, and I got bored waiting to see if he ever went down... and that was with two thirds of my machine gun bullets in him!! (or to the best of my apalling ability!)

I like the fact that it is hard to do anything with 303's but if perhaps a small tweak might be possible for when I am flying Hurricanes