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Author	Topic: G-force effects
Da Jug head Pilot	posted 10-31- 01:10 PM Saw an older interview and talked to a couple of Navy pilots and a stunt pilot that liked flight -sims. They all have the same opinion about g-force effects in all flight sims- turn em off. Everyone one of them have pulled more G's, without a g suit, without blacking out than SDOE or any other sim lets you. And they were evne more disdainful about the red-outs. Is there some way to edit these effects to change the values (or can MH fix them when the patch comes out). Anybody read history? Pappy Boyinton could pull incredible G's without blacking out ( although his threshold was higher than anybody else's. He was one of the few pilots that could out turn a zero in a corsair going balls to the walls without blacking out.) ------------------ "Where'd he GO!?!?" thunk-thunk-thunk-zing-OUCH That answered my question IP: Logged
Tailslide Pilot	posted 10-31- 01:42 PM Pilots did gray/black out in fights in WW2, even aces. Perhaps they didn't know about the straining exercises pilots use today to squeeze blood to their heads. TS ------------------ Patch It! www.airsims.com IP: Logged
Werner Molders Pilot	posted 10-31- 01:54 PM Even if somebody could "prove" that sdoe's blackout/redout thresholds are to restrictive, frankly I think they are beneficial to the game, especially online, as a means of penalizing yank-and-bank flyers in the midst of more skilled pilots. Werner ------------------ Visit Abbeville Field Today! IP: Logged
Da Jug head Pilot	posted 10-31- 05:41 PM Tail, I'm not saying they didn't black/grey/red out, just that the real pilots feel the settings in most games are too low. As for the neck exercises,guess where the idea came from- Pappy Boyinton. He would pull his head down between his shoulders and squeeze his neck muscle as tight as he could (If you've ever seen pictures of him he didn't have much of a neck , he almost looked like his head was on his shoulders). He taught this to the pilots that flew under him with varying degrees of success. Some historians say this "trick" he used is what led the air force to creating the first g-suits for the jet pilots. Don't know if that's true, but it makes for a good story If I remember right, he first stumbled on this pulling a P-40 out of a hair-raising dive when he was with the Flying Tigers. ------------------ "Where'd he GO!?!?" thunk-thunk-thunk-zing-OUCH That answered my question IP: Logged
Da Jug head Pilot	posted 10-31- 05:45 PM Werner- yank & bank flyers would still be penalized because they'd still suffer from G-forces, but the more experienced pilots like you and Tail could fly closer to the edges of the performance envelope. You would give rookies like me even more trouble trying to keep our butts from being filled with lead ------------------ "Where'd he GO!?!?" thunk-thunk-thunk-zing-OUCH That answered my question [This message has been edited by Da Jug head (edited 10-31-2000).] IP: Logged
Mirthain Pilot	posted 10-31- 07:29 PM Yank and bank doesn't work in the game because of spin out... not G-forces.... good try though..... And you could Yank and Bank 38's and not worry about spin, thats where the g-forces would come into play, but that is not the way to limit people. You teach them to fly... you do things they don't and get on thier tail and blow them away until they start to think about what they are doing..... Red and Black out has been something I have heard is over played in games.... but then again, how much black out can thier be? Really? I know the Stuka Pilots were the worst.. they would actually black out on the pull outs.... but fighter pilots rarely report blacking out even in turn fights.... I do agree it is something to think about.... ------------------ Mirthain=FC= IP: Logged
Werner Molders Pilot	posted 10-31- 08:26 PM quote: Originally posted by Da Jug head: Werner- yank & bank flyers would still be penalized because they'd still suffer from G-forces, but the more experienced pilots like you and Tail could fly closer to the edges of the performance envelope. You would give rookies like me even more trouble trying to keep our butts from being filled with lead I'm flattered, really. Realize I fly in binges, like every weekend for a month and then not at all for six. Not exactly a recipe for becoming a good pilot. I also think Mirth's description of how to train a pilot interesting, because the way I learned was a combination of what he suggests and what I said about black/red-out. I too believe this is worth a thorough discussion, so my objective in posting my opinion on the matter is not to try and beat the same into Mirth, DJH or anyone else - it's just my opinion. What do other people think? It would be valuable, imo, to hear from newbies, experienced pilots and the OP technical guys that could implement changes to this. Werner ------------------ Visit Abbeville Field Today! IP: Logged
Nat Pilot	posted 10-31- 08:39 PM just as a note, you can easily pull around 9 G's without blacking out in SDOE, the key though is how long you are pulling those G's for, to be honest, after flying the jets that pull high G's I don't think we black out to soon, but then, I'm not a pilot, just a sim jockey IP: Logged
Tailslide Pilot	posted 10-31- 09:01 PM >but fighter pilots rarely report blacking >out even in turn fights I've read several stories where the pilot would turn until he started graying out, the one I remember most was a p51 ace pulling a tight descending turn. Since the p51 was rated to 6.3 g's and started to break up at 9.6 I doubt he was pulling more than 6 or 7 gees. Will post the interviews if I come across them again. TS ------------------ Patch It! www.airsims.com IP: Logged
Mighty General	posted 11-01- 03:51 PM We have a book here on P-38s where the author said that with the flaps in combat setting is was not uncommon for pilots to black out in a level turn. Black/redout is a very subjective feature. Sort of like Padlock, there will never be one single answer. It's based on something in real life that can only be modeled very loosely in a sim. Instead of on/off we should probably have a slider. I'll put that down on my wishlist. IP: Logged

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