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Author Topic:   Ki-61 I Hien, Then and Now (new development pic!)
Razer
Pilot
posted 10-27- 11:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Razer   Click Here to Email Razer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Before i post the image, i'd like to say that this plane is finally going to be ready for release soon and it's been in development for well over a year. Though the new version has only been in development for a month or two. The Ki-61 has been worked on by many people in the last year, and with the new version, it will be the first plane i've ever made from scratch. Almost everything on this plane at release time will be new. Shes come a long way. I hope you enjoy her has much as i do now. Not only does this image show how much the plane has changed, but how much i've grown in the ways of plane making.

Here is a picture of how the first Ki-61 looked, and how great she looks now!


.

Enjoy!

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Tony "Razer" Martin

"Making SDOE a dangerous Place, One plane at a time!"
FS Hangar

[This message has been edited by Razer (edited 10-27-2000).]

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ArgonV
Pilot
posted 10-27- 11:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ArgonV   Click Here to Email ArgonV     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
She has come a REAL looongs ways hasnt she? Thanks for the beta test version! What other suggestions/reports do you need on her?

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Razer
Pilot
posted 10-27- 12:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Razer   Click Here to Email Razer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
theres really nothing to test since it's under heavy development. it's pretty much a "hows it look" beta..

[This message has been edited by Razer (edited 10-27-2000).]

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Eyes
Pilot
posted 10-27- 12:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Eyes   Click Here to Email Eyes     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
She looks great R ! You and your team did a great work !

PS I still didnt get my copy of the plane ! Cant wait to test it !

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Eyes=FC=

http://www.geocities.com/sdoect/index.html
Your Eyes in the Sky

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Razer
Pilot
posted 10-27- 12:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Razer   Click Here to Email Razer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wait, i have a team? Why am i doing all the work then!! Wheres the rest of the team?!?!?!

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ArgonV
Pilot
posted 10-27- 12:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ArgonV   Click Here to Email ArgonV     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
ROFLMAO Razer! They all took the rest of their plane building days off and let you have all the fun.

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Razer
Pilot
posted 10-27- 04:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Razer   Click Here to Email Razer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
well, i just discovered something wierd. I just moved the wings to where they need to be and i'm a foot short. i need to make the wings longer and remap. well, i'll do that later..

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Hawkwind
Cadet
posted 10-28- 11:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hawkwind   Click Here to Email Hawkwind     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Nice work , Razer.The beauty of your Ki-61 when it is finally finished is that the work necessary 2 convert your existing model 2 a Ki-100 "shouldn't" (famous last words) be major.Especially if u create the Ki-100-Ia - the original 'razorback' model created from Ki-61-II airframes.The Ki-100-Ib, the 'bubble-top' model, would take more significant remodelling and could perhaps be worked on in the future.

IMHO, the -Ia would be the best bet if u ever got around 2 making it as it would require far less work, besides which of the relatively small number of Ki-100's built (we r talking of only a few hundred airframes - certainly less than 500), over 75% were Ki-100-Ia's & not -Ib's.

I noticed another thread earlier that referred 2 the Ki-84 Hayate and Kawanishi N1K George.Someone mentioned there were at least 2 Franks.By far, most Franks produced (if I remember off the top of my head, roughly 3,500 were produced between early 1944 til the end of WW2) were the original model Frank, the Ki-84-Ia. This 'standard' model had an armament of 2 x 12.7mm cowl mounted heavy MG's (I'll check 2 see the ammo load used) and 2 x wing mounted 20mm cannon with 150rpg.The vast majority used a 1,900hp Homare powerplant and (though most ppl don't seem 2 realise this), water-methanol injection power boosting system 4 increased power at low 2 medium alts.

U will find most literature on the Frank states that the -Ia's top speed was 392mph.This is correct, yet, paradoxically incorrect.The number is a rough approximation, because aircraft/powerplant & engine production quality were so poor from early 1944 onwards, that many pilots did not know whether the new Hayate they were strapping themselves in2 was a potential war-winner, or a lemon.As with the N1K1-J & -2J Shiden/Shiden Kai, undercarriages would abruptly snap off on landing, and the closely cowled, and highly advanced direct injection engine often gave terrible trouble, and many Homares did not even supply the rated output, yet a minority actually produced in excess of 1,900 horses!

To add 2 these problems, as the Japanese lost access 2 their vital oil fields in the Netherlands East Indies (Indonesia) and other S/E Asian locations, the quality of their fuel dipped markedly.This meant that the majority of Franks were flown with low octane, and often highly contaminated avgas.

However, since poor quality fuel and shoddy workmanship isn't modelled in flight-sims (thank goodness), we should model a/c 2 their full potential.In fact, as many of u know, in 1946 the US tested a Ki84-Ia which had been restored 2 what was WW2 US operational 'serviceable' condition (many Japanese pilots flew a/c late in WW2 that would've been deemed 'unserviceable' by Allied air forces like the USN, RAAF, RAF etc).This Ki-84-Ia used a standard 1,900 hp Homare and just as importantly, used hi-octane American avgas, the very same stuff that had been used by US fighters in the Pacific.

The result of the tests were astonishing.The Ki-84-Ia was clocked persistently at an average top speed of 427 mph TAS!! (I can't remember the alt at which this was achieved, but it was around 20-22k if I remember rightly).It was tested against a P-51D and a P-47N (though some sources state it was a late model P-47D), and it easily outclimbed and outmaneuvered both American fighters up to 25,000 feet.It was significantly faster than both US a/c at 20,000 feet (especially the P-47), and this climb/speed advantage was maintained to 25,000 feet against the Mustang, and even higher against the Thunderbolt.

As mentioned earlier, the captured Hayate easily outmaneuvered both US fighters up to 25k alt, in no small part thanks 2 its combat maneuvering flaps.However, they had 2 be manually deployed by the pilot, unlike the George's revolutionary automatic combat flap system activated by a manometer which measured AoA and automatically adjusted the combat flaps accordingly, giving the Shiden/Shiden Kai what was described by Allied pilots who flew her after the war (and against her during WW2) as an "ubelievable" turn rate, both horizontally and vertically.

A number of other Ki-84 variants were built including the -Ib & -Ic and -II. Some had slightly more powerful engines (around 2,000 hp, if I remember rightly) 2 offset the heavier armament carried by some of these Hayates, including 4 x 20mm cannons ( 2 x cowl and 2 x wing mounted), and even some carrying 2 x 20mm & 2 x 30mm cannons ( 2 x 20mm cowl mounted & 2 x 30mm wing mounted).There were also some Franks that were built from mainly wood as well as some built mainly from steel, both 2 try and save precious , & by then very scarce 4 the Japs, aluminium stocks needed 2 create duralumin 4 the production of a/c.However, the vast majority of Franks built during WW2 were the standard Ki-84-Ia, built from standard advanced aluminium (or aluminum 4 u Yanks who have changed the original spelling ;-D )alloys, carrying the standard armament of 2 x 12.7mm MG & 2 x 20mm cannon, and powered bya 1,900 hp Homare.

To finish off (finally), what I believe is that we should model what the Hayate would've been like (what it was *meant* 2 be like) had not workmanship and fuel been so poor during most of its production.After all, we don't model the fact that, 4 instance, the Browning 0.50 in/12.7mm heavy MG used by the Allies had a propensity 2 jam, and pilots would often fly home with multiple jammed guns (in fact it was not entirely uncommon 2 fly home with *all* 0.50's jammed).We also don't model the fact that after heavy use, different a/c built and delivered at the same time would often have vastly different climb/top speed preformances because of varying engine wear (every plane was flown differently during combat, & some pilots were more likely 2 wear out the a/c's engine rapidly).In the sim world, we model a/c & guns etc. in their "optimal" state.Anyway, that's my 2c worth ;-D.

Btw, I have a detailed cut-away of the Ki-84-Ia that I could scan 4 whoever is building the Hayate.It shows the exact position of fuel tanks, water-methanol tank, guns etc as well as giving a great view of the Hayate "bare-boned & de-fleshed".I can scan that if that will help at all.

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Razer
Pilot
posted 10-28- 11:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Razer   Click Here to Email Razer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hawk, thanks for the info. I have the 3 views of the Ki-84 so i wont need them. I had a friend in japan send me one of the Aero Detail series of books on the Ki-84 and it's the book i need to do the Ki-84. I don't know when it will be started, i really need to get the Ki-61 up to par then update the P-39 and release both with the updated A6M5 and A6M2 i have.

The Ki-61 i'm working on is tha Ki-61 Ia, i may do a Ki-100 but it's a big change on the model is i do it. I will probably stick with close variants of the Ki-61 if i do any variants at all. I feel there's not many people that want to see the Ki-61 so i'm not going to spend that much time on it after it's ready for release. I'm only doing it cause i love the plane.

[This message has been edited by Razer (edited 10-29-2000).]

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Biggles3
Pilot
posted 10-29- 04:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Biggles3   Click Here to Email Biggles3     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Razer
hear are some facks about ki100ia
Ki61-2 airframe
Ha.112 ( a large diamiter radial)
what they did was plug thease 2 components( airframe-engine )together and what they got was the first ki100 whitch had much better performance then the ki61.
It was very difficult to get hold of the ha140 engine because all the frait trains and ships where being taken out by the US
but they had a hole load of these engines
so they dicided to see what it was like if they put one on and HAY PRESTO one sweeet plane.256 ki100-1a(the ki61-2 airframes)where built in 3 months.

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Biggs is back!!!

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Private Roger
Pilot
posted 10-29- 05:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Private Roger   Click Here to Email Private Roger     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Razer

The plane is a delight! Since you know better than I do the things that need to be done to it, I won't go into them. As it stands it's a vast improvement over what we had. My hats off to you!

PR=FC=

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AGAS - 5
Pilot
posted 10-29- 06:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for AGAS - 5   Click Here to Email AGAS - 5     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ya doing a great job there Razer

Not that I count for much....but I do want it...badly

Good luck with its progress.

Cheers,

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AGAS 5

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Razer
Pilot
posted 10-29- 11:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Razer   Click Here to Email Razer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks guys.. Here is an old image i took a few days ago. I did the scheme in a few mins, figured it would show the plane off more with a lighter scheme.



[This message has been edited by Razer (edited 10-29-2000).]

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Private Roger
Pilot
posted 10-29- 12:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Private Roger   Click Here to Email Private Roger     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Oh baby!!! That is toooo sweet!!! Makes it easier for my old eyes to pick it up while flying to. Hey!!! I need all the help I can get!

PR=FC=

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lfbpro
Pilot
posted 10-29- 02:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lfbpro   Click Here to Email lfbpro     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
WAHOOO!!!
What a beauty in her white cam skin (and you did it in min?)
Well can't wait to test her with my new 3 parts joystick! ;-)

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-=BAB=-lfbpro

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AGAS - 5
Pilot
posted 10-29- 03:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AGAS - 5   Click Here to Email AGAS - 5     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
AND he can paint too !!!!

looks great.

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AGAS 5

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BULLET
Pilot
posted 10-29- 05:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BULLET   Click Here to Email BULLET     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Is the texture mapping going to be the same? I've got a few skins that I never finished cause of the mapping probs. on the last version still waiting to be finished.

I'd love to see them in the air.

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Razer
Pilot
posted 10-29- 05:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Razer   Click Here to Email Razer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Bullet, i'm not sure what to say. If your talking about the ki61 in the top of the image at the top of the page, then no, none of those schemes will work on the new Ki-61 in the bottom of the image at the top.

The new Ki-61 or version 2 i like tocall it, has completely new texture mapping on a completely new model. The only thing the two planes have in common is the name.

if you would like to talk more and get a copy to do more schemes, email me at razlude@bellsouth.net i'll send you the latest version over to paint.

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li'l bastard
Pilot
posted 10-30- 02:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for li'l bastard   Click Here to Email li'l bastard     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
razer, can u send me a beta of the 61 with the metal skin and orange tail, as I was workin on a skin on the first model, but due to a texture problem it looked like crap...
thank u!

li'l

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Razer
Pilot
posted 10-30- 11:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Razer   Click Here to Email Razer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
email me at razlude@bellsouth.net and i'll send it over. And that's a red tail, not orange.

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Hawkwind
Cadet
posted 10-31- 01:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hawkwind   Click Here to Email Hawkwind     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Razer, those Aero Detail books r awesome.I was given one on the Macchi C.200/202/205 series a month a ago 4 my birthday.They r available here in Oz, so I should think they would be available in the US too (though if u can get a friend 2 find one in Japan, all the better).

I can certainly understand if u didnt feel like doing anything further on the Hien after u finish this new version.I only suggested the Ki-100-Ia because it was the original conversion of the Ki-61-II airframe & would give us a completely new model, and there4 is very similar 2 the Ki-61-I , except 4 the obvious diff because of the radial engine.Its vert stab tapers a little more 2wards the fuselage, and it has the longer Ki-61-II wingspan, but that is purely a stretch job.Then again, its ez 4 an OP virgin like me 2 talk!!!

It's just, seeing that Hien made me drool, and my mind immediately shifted 2 the Ki-100 Goshikisen ;-)

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