|
Author
|
Topic: Yak-3 against german fighter
|
Blasius1
Cadet
|
posted 10-10- 01:39 PM
   
hello guys,
yesterday i read in the readme file in sdoe
about a dogfight between 18 yak-3 and 22 german Fighter.
and here u can read the 18 yaks lost only 1 and destroy 15 german fighter .
in a dogfight????????????????
let me know , where can i read this, in which book.
note , it s not the reason, because i m a german, but i can t believe it .not important from where the pilots. this sounds after a good propaganda.
bast regards Blasius IP: Logged |
Tailslide
Pilot
|
posted 10-10- 01:48 PM
Hi, I'll try to look up where I got that from. It's not too surprising as the yak-3 was faster, climbed better and was more agile than the german fighters below 12,000 feet. I imagine "bad things happened" until they figured this out. TS ------------------
Patch It! www.airsims.com IP: Logged |
Tailslide
Pilot
|
posted 10-10- 01:52 PM
This doesn't have the particulars of the engagement but does have similar info:
http://www.nzfpm.co.nz/former/yak3.htm TS IP: Logged |
Blasius1
Cadet
|
posted 10-10- 02:34 PM
heya tailslide,
thx for u answer.
i can remember me on a interview (i had read it somewhere in the internet) with adolf gallant.
he talk about fights in the ww2 , most pilots canīt see his killer,on both sites.
what i canīt believe in u story, this was happend in a dogfight?????????????.where every pilot see only a part from his enemys??????????
not always important u have a quickest, fastest or a agile aircraft.
IP: Logged |
Tailslide
Pilot
|
posted 10-10- 06:10 PM
If the germans were used to fighting against earlier Yak variants and were surprised by the russians they may have tried to outrun or outclimb the Yak 3s which would have been fatal. TS IP: Logged |
Mirthain
Pilot
|
posted 10-10- 10:11 PM
the russians could have bounced the germans too.... that did happen sometimes, and if the germans were low, then the Yak's had the advantage.... but I am a bit skeptical as well... the russians just never put out the great pilots capable of such feats, usually they were hit and run artists and not real well trained, of course if this was late war, then the german pilots were pretty green too, and if they were in 109's or another fighter that could be touchy for a green pilot, then it is possible, but not likely... ;}
Mirthain=FC=IP: Logged |
Tailslide
Pilot
|
posted 10-10- 11:31 PM
You crack me up mirth 
IP: Logged |
Mirthain
Pilot
|
posted 10-11- 09:47 AM
I hate you TS... heheheheheheheheheh..... IP: Logged |
Poniat
Pilot
|
posted 10-12- 03:14 PM
Seems very unlikely to me.
I mean the soviet propaganda or rather the soviet way of life.
I know something about it from ny experience in diluted form but the thirties and the forties were the times when milions of innocent people were slaughtered by the soviets yet virtually nobody remembers it today and there nice stories floatng around.
Those are the horror stories.The nicer stories are like:
The radio was invented by Popov (not Marconi)
Every other progress made in science was made by some "proggresive Russian" bloke.
Come to soviet era, now everything was superior, I was browsing some books published in the 50's the other day, God, that was just incredible! It is sobering to have a look at this kind of stuff (it's not propaganda, it's the whole new false reality being created!). People who survived are still alive may not be so happy to tell the stories. We will never fully understand just from reading the books. That was the whole different virtual reality created. Read 'The Animal Farm" and the "1984" and some of it will be revealled to you. S! ------------------
9./JG3_Poniat IP: Logged |
Tailslide
Pilot
|
posted 10-12- 09:39 PM
I think you're confusing politics with how well the planes flew.. and they were superior except at high altitudes. Unless the pilot is a total moron it's not that hard to shoot down a plane when you are faster, climb better and are more manouverable. TS ------------------
Patch It! www.airsims.com IP: Logged |
Mirthain
Pilot
|
posted 10-12- 09:51 PM
Well, lets not open the door on the whole stupid thing TS.... we are talking about a bunch of people that thought Stalin was ok.. hehehehehe...
But you are right, it is possible to get those kinds of numbers, and again, if it was down low, then the russians were really in their own element and would do a tidy job... if it was up higher, well, chalk it up as either propaganda, or luck.. ;}
Mirthain=FC=IP: Logged |
Tailslide
Pilot
|
posted 10-12- 10:04 PM
It's not like the history from the period reads like a soviet progpoganda poster  The book "Black Cross Red Star" has some great info and was co-authored by a german and russian historian. They used loss records from the other's side to verify claims (losses are usually accurate while claims are not). Early in the war the I-16 were getting eaten alive by the 109's (the ones that weren't destroyed on the ground in Barbarossa) It wasn't until years later that russian designs had finally caught up to the germans. TS IP: Logged |
manock
Pilot
|
posted 10-12- 10:59 PM
When first strapped into a german fighter, thought no wonder they lost the war, and switched over to something american. Then read about the exploits of Nassko on the warbirds ladders who was just creaming everyone in sight. Hours later of flight analysis, concluded boy was i wrong, and that the 109 is the deadliest plane of wwii. IN THE HANDS (and middle age guys love this line) OF AN EXPERIENCED PILOT, the 109 is absolutely lethal in close air combat. However, a new recruit will undoubtedly try to turn it, and get tail tagged quickly by a more agile fighter like a yak or lightning. So like everyone else, hear these amazing stories and a bit skeptical but suppose possible if 109s piloted by newbies, and allowed themselves to get trapped on the deck. The yaks would chew them up.But Still - World War II is such a cash cow - almost anything can be verified in writing by someone somewhere. These amazing exploit stories can be interesting but wouldnt invest in them. Just a little too convenient. On this one, if had to choose which side of the room to sit in, id sit with the germans on this one.
Manock IP: Logged |
Tailslide
Pilot
|
posted 10-12- 11:18 PM
LOL I give up IP: Logged |
Tailslide
Pilot
|
posted 10-13- 02:33 AM
Heres a few photos i scanned while i had this book out.. they are from Black Cross / Red Star by Bergstrom and Mikhailov.. ISBN 0-935553-48-7 .. highly reccomended. Not "amazing exploit stories" but history written by historians. "Detailed and extensive loss statistics are presented and analyzed throughout the book. Victory claims made by airmen on both sides are compared with loss statistics from both sides' central archives and individual unit records. The Black Cross/Red Star series is to include at least seven volumes. The first four will be narrative histories that will take readers through the air war over the Eastern Front from start to finish. Each of these volumes will contain at least 150 photos, of which many have never been seen by the reading public. The final three volumes planned so far, in no particular order, will be a chronolgy of the entire Eastern Front air war (including significant ground actions that formed the basis of aerial efforts); a volume of statistics and box scores from both sides (loss tables, unit scores, and ace scores among many topics); and another will be composed of biographies (and photos where possible) of important German and Soviet aviation figures (commanders, aircraft designers, pilots, and others)."  A line of I-16 parked wingtip to wingtip, when the germans first attacked they were all arranged like this making easy targets.  Pe-2's being refuelled  Werner Moelders, sans medals that he renounced in protest of Nazi policies towards the Catholic church. ------------------
Patch It! [This message has been edited by Tailslide (edited 10-13-2000).] IP: Logged |
Ground Pounder
Cadet
|
posted 10-13- 04:55 AM
Hey Guys!
let's not get confused by technical superiority VICE human endeavor. ( IE Greece/ Africa 39-40, Gladiators V bf 109!) there is always a circumstance, where the guy with the bigger knife lost to a guy with his bare hands!! It does not, automatically, mean one piece of kit is better than the other.IP: Logged |
Johannes
Pilot
|
posted 10-13- 11:12 AM
hello all,
sometimes i read a book from a german historical writer and sometimes from a allied
historical writer. and both have the same error(maybe), all both believe they are right and the other wrong.
the same with other historical writer, all believe they are right.
and u book , tailslide, maybe the german part from the writer are a east german guy. which lookīs many things with other pair of glasses as a historical guy in the rest of the world.
but this doesn t means , u are wrong.
regards Johannes( i know , my english is not so good ) ------------------
 IP: Logged |
Poniat
Pilot
|
posted 10-13- 04:03 PM
Tailslide,After reading the first sentence of my post I must say I was being terribly opinionated 
Of course, my reply should have been placed in the off topic section. I would still approach any Soviet source with courtion. ------------------
9./JG3_Poniat IP: Logged |
Double J
Cadet
|
posted 10-16- 03:47 PM
In "The Illustrated Directory of Fighting Aircraft of World War II" by Bill Gunston, it states that on 14 July 1944, a force of 18 Yak-3's met 30 German fighters and shot down 15 with a loss of 1 Yak. It does not list the source of that information. It also stated that a directive had gone out to Luftwaffe pilots to avoid combat below 5000m with Yakovlev fighters lacking an oil cooler below the nose (the Yak-3).Today on the History channel the Planes of Fame had a small peice on the Yak-3 and they repeated that the German pilots had been told to avoid the Yak without the oil cooler. In any terms it sounds like the Yak-3 was a capable fighter against the German fighters atleast a lower altitudes. JJ IP: Logged |
Pachy
Pilot
|
posted 10-16- 04:02 PM
I've read everywhere the quality of German pilots was extremely heterogenous on the Eastern front. The Normandie-Niemen pilots tell that someday they would meet only novice pilots, probably quicky converted from bomber units and barely able to fly their fighters. And the day after, they were against aces flying 109s in combat everyday since the Spanish civil war.IP: Logged |
Tailslide
Pilot
|
posted 10-16- 04:30 PM
I've read that too Pachy. The Yak-3 came along relatively late in the war. TS
[This message has been edited by Tailslide (edited 10-16-2000).] IP: Logged |
FSIC Messageboard
UBBFriend: Email This Page to Someone! 
